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Rheso Vifah
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Posted - 2010.02.08 05:22:00 -
[1]
Hi there, I'm sitting currently at 4.2 Mil SP right now and very close to flying an Ishkur, maybe this week!:D But really my "end-game" goal is to fly a command ship. My only problem is a week or so ago some were telling me that command ships are not really worth it and especially the Eos which would be the one I would prefer to fly since i am gallente.This then got me questioning if i really should pursue that path, or go some other direction but i thought i would ask those flying these magnificent ships already.
If I were to fly a Command Ship, i would prefer to fly Fleet, but is a Field ship known to perform better? How are they when it comes to being able to solo-pvp/pirate, and same goes for pve? In what size fleet does a command ship become worthwhile than having another DPS/Support ship, and what does the duties of flying the command ship entitle? If I was going to fly an Eos like i wish, is it better to just train for something sexy like a Damnation (since i've heard they're better)? And finally, to work my way up to flying them, should i start with assault ships, then move to heavy assault ships, then go Command ships?
Please if you could answer any of my questions i would be so happy, I would really like to fly these but don't want to get my hopes up! Sorry for any noobniss, thanks!
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Shadowy Assistant
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Posted - 2010.02.08 05:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Shadowy Assistant on 08/02/2010 05:30:58
Gallente got the short stick when it comes to Command Ships. If you want good performance out of CSes, cross-train for the Amarr or Minmatar ones. Mindlinked Claymores/Damnations are pro.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:18:00 -
[3]
Are you going to get the leadership skills, including the mindlink for your chosen gang mod type?
If yes, command ships are awesome. The bonuses they give make a huge difference in even fairly small fleets, and you will rarely have too many command ship pilots. Gallente kind of get screwed by the mediocre bonuses on their racial gang mods, but since the ship bonus is so small compared to the skill/mindlink bonuses, you could probably get away with flying an Eos fitted with the more useful types. Or just train for one of the others, all three are very good options in the appropriate fleet.
If no, just get a Dominix.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:57:00 -
[4]
Eos plain sux donkey testies after the nerf. Unless you somehow fly in a 1000man fleet with enough silly ships that can use gallente gang mods better than wicked minmatar, amarr or even caldari gang mods to warrant a speshul wing.
Nah really, it's pretty bad, either:
- train them leadership skills and skill for a proper commandship (damnation for armour, vulture for shield, claymore for tackle) and ignore your dps role (generally useful for very specific gangs and larger fleets)
- only use 1 gang mod anyway and use tech 1 BCs and go for the fight commandships (astarte/absolution/sleipnir), great for gangs generally, but if you start getting 3 squads I'd appreciate a true gang mod ship..
I'd work my way up to them by flying tech 1 BC, training for t2 fits, then leadership skills (and in between command ships). I found that the t1 BC is a great ship for flying 1 gang mod while still bringing the dps support (and not losing you too much iskies for losing it) in smaler gangs.
All the above is prolly crap
Drone Guide
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Malcanis on 08/02/2010 14:12:08
There is a widespread misconception that it is only worth fitting bonused ganglinks to Fleet Command ships. As Merin correctly points out, the ship bonus is relatively minor. What really counts is the mindlink.
So in fact by far the most important part of flying a command ship is the ~12-15M SP it takes to become fully proficient in Leadership skills. Then of course you'll need Battlecruiser V, plus all the support, navigation, drone skills and so forth. And then gunnery. Call it another 10M SP or so.
Frankly, expending 1.25M SP for the racial cruiser V to fly a different command ship is a relatively trivial consideration.
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Mr Ignitious
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:21:00 -
[6]
For the op, I would like to say that for pvp the gallente ones also don't function well at all. You get more drone dps from an ishtar and astarte chews through a lot of ammo, and rail dps is meh (don't go blasters).
Nighthawk is a pretty popular Pve'r but doesn't do pvp too well (some can, but the investment cost is very high, and it's not exactly solo).
And for what people are saying, in fleets you will almost always find command ships welcome. Personally I think the minmatar setup is the most fun. Sleipnir can play solo pretty well because it's pretty quick, solid dps, and a reasonable tank. Claymore fields a fairly stronger tank and is quick enough to keep up with nano hac gangs. A claymore with nano hacs is a fearsome thing too see.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
 Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:19:00 -
[7]
They are very solid tanks and would help a fleet out if you do not already have a dedicated booster. That being said, it is very specialized training that is only useful if it is going to be used and wasted otherwise.
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Amneamnius
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rheso Vifah
Hi there, I'm sitting currently at 4.2 Mil SP right now and very close to flying an Ishkur, maybe this week!:D But really my "end-game" goal is to fly a command ship. My only problem is a week or so ago some were telling me that command ships are not really worth it and especially the Eos which would be the one I would prefer to fly since i am gallente.This then got me questioning if i really should pursue that path, or go some other direction but i thought i would ask those flying these magnificent ships already.
If I were to fly a Command Ship, i would prefer to fly Fleet, but is a Field ship known to perform better? How are they when it comes to being able to solo-pvp/pirate, and same goes for pve? In what size fleet does a command ship become worthwhile than having another DPS/Support ship, and what does the duties of flying the command ship entitle? If I was going to fly an Eos like i wish, is it better to just train for something sexy like a Damnation (since i've heard they're better)? And finally, to work my way up to flying them, should i start with assault ships, then move to heavy assault ships, then go Command ships?
Please if you could answer any of my questions i would be so happy, I would really like to fly these but don't want to get my hopes up! Sorry for any noobniss, thanks!
Command ships are not god any more, and Eve online, you will find, has no "Endgame"
They used to be, pre-apocrypha, but now T3 are the new demigods.
Especially with 4.25m sp, you don't even need to think about command ships, you're at least a year or two away from getting in one with any effect.
My advise to you is get your ishkur on for a good 4-5 months, then hop into an ishtar, then your temporary "endgame" is the proteus- you wont find a better sub-cap.
/you might want to train interdictors; 0.0 corps would eat you.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Traumark Logistics
H Y E N A
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:01:00 -
[9]
I too will begin training for Fleet/Field Command ships very soon. Damnation/Absolution to be exact. From what I understand of thier roles is Field Commands are mostly small gang/solo pwnmobiles based on high DPS from the fits I have seen out there.While Fleet have a nasty tank with uber bonus's to fleet members. Whether its worth all the training time it takes to fly these ships is realtive to what your goals in using the ships are. If you always find yourself in a Fleet when you log on then you will find yourself to be in a vaulable asset to any gang. If you just want to hop in a Field Command and pick on some wanna-be pirates, you will find it very easy to do so, if you have tact.
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Rheso Vifah
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:13:00 -
[10]
Thank you all soo so much for helping me out, those questions have just kept runnnig through my head recently. Now i was wondering something else, a few days ago i was reading one thread and one poster mentioned about how command ships are such a priority that they have to fit themselves to be un-probe-able and hide somewhere so as to not get targeted.
Is this true? Because although i don't want to be the first targeted and have my 300mil ISK CS get blown up but i also don't wish to just sit on the side-lines with my buffs.
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:21:00 -
[11]
If you want to be a fleet booster, the leadership skills alone should hinder a few-month old pilot with 4.2M SP...
If you want to fight in a CS, just try spec-ing for the appropriate race's BCs and you are pretty much there.
Don't really count on CSs awesomeness tho: unless you are after a really good tank against specific dmg types (rare in PVP but could be handy - for example Gallente CSs vs. stubborn kin missile using Drakes / Cerbs etc), most CSs are barely and equal match to Tier 1 BSs, perhaps with a slight (but slight) mobility advantage (that comes with a great range disadvantage for turret boats). Even after expensive rigging, BS tend to be cheaper, that's why most ppl end up leaving most CSs home and bringing BSs or BCs.
The most seen CSs in PvP are the Damnations for RR BS gangs, and the Sleipnir for field (dmg) work - Claymores are also seen in nano-BC/HAC gangs. Gallente are awesome fleet boosting Recon gangs, tho rarely seen at the field. In general ppl prefer the "dmg dealing" role, and in rare occasions they will opt for a fleet support role, bringing an extra Logistic ship is preferred.
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:22:00 -
[12]
Damnations and claymores are almost always on the field /i think vultures too/. They do not provide much dps, but damnation can be used as heavy tackler or to project assisted drone dps to targets /because damnation pilot dont have much to do if he is not fcing/. Claymore can zoom around with rest of nanohacs and add at least a little dps to the primary /ofc his no.1 objective is to survive and boost gang/.
Also unprobable command ships /or t3s/ are suited for alts or pve imo.
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Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:29:00 -
[13]
I have two questions regarding CSs:
1) Is it better to fit shield recharge-based or HP buffer-based mods on Caldari CSs for PVP? Which essentially means:
A) Shield Power Relays in lows+Shield Purger rigs
or
B) Power Diagnostic Systems in lows+Shield Extender rigs?
and
2) As I know, each fleet can have several CS pilots, each boosting their wings/squads. Is this right?
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"Non-essential personnel, abandon ship."
- Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Tobas last command. CE 23155 |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tornicks
I have two questions regarding CSs:
1) Is it better to fit shield recharge-based or HP buffer-based mods on Caldari CSs for PVP? Which essentially means:
A) Shield Power Relays in lows+Shield Purger rigs
or
B) Power Diagnostic Systems in lows+Shield Extender rigs?
and
2) As I know, each fleet can have several CS pilots, each boosting their wings/squads. Is this right?
Neither. As a general rule, never use passive-regen fits in pvp. But you don't want PDS either, in general - you want a Damage Control and damage mods instead. Specific exception such as HICs obviously exist.
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Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.03 09:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Tornicks
I have two questions regarding CSs:
1) Is it better to fit shield recharge-based or HP buffer-based mods on Caldari CSs for PVP? Which essentially means:
A) Shield Power Relays in lows+Shield Purger rigs
or
B) Power Diagnostic Systems in lows+Shield Extender rigs?
and
2) As I know, each fleet can have several CS pilots, each boosting their wings/squads. Is this right?
Neither. As a general rule, never use passive-regen fits in pvp. But you don't want PDS either, in general - you want a Damage Control and damage mods instead. Specific exception such as HICs obviously exist.
Thanks for the reply.
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'Non-essential personnel, abandon ship.'
Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Tobas last command, CE23155
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.03 09:50:00 -
[16]
I should add that if your CS is "essential" to your gang (because of its gang mods), then adding PDS for more EHP is probably more sensible than adding damage mods. But this is really a fleet CS thing, rather than a field CS.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 10:47:00 -
[17]
Why not look at t3 ships with command subsystems? They give better gang boosts then command ships, have great tanks, easier to train for, faster, more agile and can often do more DPS while boosting if you can fit a drone subsystem.
Since getting my T3 ship with a command subsystem I never use my command ships anymore. I donÆt see the point in them.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pixelst0rm
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Posted - 2010.03.03 10:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pottsey
Why not look at t3 ships with command subsystems? They give better gang boosts then command ships, have great tanks, easier to train for, faster, more agile and can often do more DPS while boosting if you can fit a drone subsystem.
Since getting my T3 ship with a command subsystem I never use my command ships anymore. I donÆt see the point in them.
Kinda my point exactly.
And i was wondering...
Questions:
What would you choose with pvp in mind: Nighthawk or Tengu?
What would you choose with pve in mind: NH or Tengu?
I am around 1 month away for flying one of those beasts. While potential dps is nearly the same, Tengu seem to have slight lead in my eyes because i can make it unprobable and it also have some sort of flexibility with all those subsystems but i have absolutely no idea whats better in a gang, so please advice.
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Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.03 12:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pottsey
Why not look at t3 ships with command subsystems? They give better gang boosts then command ships, have great tanks, easier to train for, faster, more agile and can often do more DPS while boosting if you can fit a drone subsystem.
Since getting my T3 ship with a command subsystem I never use my command ships anymore. I donÆt see the point in them.
Because they are 2-3 times more expensive?
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'Non-essential personnel, abandon ship.'
Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Tobas last command, CE23155
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2010.03.03 12:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Pottsey
Why not look at t3 ships with command subsystems? They give better gang boosts then command ships, have great tanks, easier to train for, faster, more agile and can often do more DPS while boosting if you can fit a drone subsystem.
Since getting my T3 ship with a command subsystem I never use my command ships anymore. I donÆt see the point in them.
Normally t3 can only fit 1 gang mod, if you want more you need command processors which means a gimped fit. While they are awesome for sitting in safespots aligned providing bonuses, they are hardly viable for someone who wants to take part in the action. If you go with only 1 gang mod, meaning not a gimped fit, you end up with tank inferior to fleet CS due to command subsystem being defensive. Can't possibly beat damnation in ehp with a legion like that, and you're likely going to get primaried when in legion too. Not to mention that in this case damnation's 3 bonuses >>> legion's 1.
Cloaking probing gang modded t3 are great as something to get your alt into, but not actually flying them on your main in combat.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 12:48:00 -
[21]
Pixelst0rm said ôWhat would you choose with pvp in mind: Nighthawk or Tengu?ö
That depends on your income. If you have a high income source like say C6 wormholes then PvP in the Tengu. If income is low like level 4 missions I would choose a BC with 1 gang mod. The type of PvP also matters as if you know you are going to lose a lot due to lots of high risks you might choose a cheap ship even with a high income.
As for PvE it depends on the type of PvE. For Wormholes a Tengu is bigger due to low mass and better gang boosts. For level 4 missions I think the Nighthawk does more DPS so I would choose that one. For level 4 missions I always choose the ship that does the most DPS.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:02:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Pottsey on 03/03/2010 13:02:35
Yes they cost more but they are now so cheap we run full fleets of them in wormhole space.
I am finding due to the smaller sig and faster speed even though I have less EHP I am tanking as well as the Damnation. I actually fly a Damnation and recently swapped to a Legion. We donÆt use the cap reduce gang mod instead I only run the speed up cycle time and more resistance gang mods. This gives everyone in the fleet more EHP then a Damnation can. I am finding in PvE we donÆt need the 3rd gang mod, in PvP combat is so short the 3rd gang mod does nothing. In fact if you are flying a buffer fleet you only need 1 gang mod. If you have RR ships the 2nd gang mod is useful.
We run T3 fleets meaning I donÆt get primaried when we get into PvP. ItÆs not easy to pick out the gang boosting legion in a fleet of legions. On the other hand if I swap to a Damnation I am easy to pick out. Saying that even in a Damnation I have never been the primary target yet.
I hate the team primary. It feels like 99% of ships I post someone says but you will get primaried. Every ship seems to be the primary ship these days.
Vrabac said ôWhile they are awesome for sitting in safespots aligned providing bonuses, they are hardly viable for someone who wants to take part in the action.ö
I donÆt agree, I have been doing fleet actions in my 2 gang mod Legion for weeks now. The only time I sit in a safe spot is the rare times I am asked to run 4 or 5 gang mods. It all depends on what type of fleet action you are doing. My point of view is wormhole space and for both PvP and PvE T3 ships work much better then command ships.
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How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2010.03.03 13:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pottsey
My point of view is wormhole space and for both PvP and PvE T3 ships work much better then command ships.
I don't doubt your experience, but it's just a part of the bigger picture. In general fleet CS are still very much useful.
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Tiruriku
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Posted - 2010.03.03 19:26:00 -
[24]
I don't think this is too off topic but there has been a lot of discussion on command ships that want to participate in combat.
If you have a character with maxed leadership skills, a implant for the skill of choice, and the desire is simply to run as many gang links as possible while sitting at a POS (WH) or out of the action (high sec) are command ships the way to go or is there anything with a lower SP requirement that just lets you run the most links
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Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.23 09:09:00 -
[25]
I would like to ask about the bonuses:
I have an example when EFT says that a Shield Harmonizing link+Shield gang mindlink will result in a 22.5% bonus in fleet shield resistances. Which figure is this percentage added to? Surely it does not concern the already present resists, as that could raise the shield tanked ships' resists to 100%.
So which figure is taken for adding this 22.5% to?
--
'Non-essential personnel, abandon ship.'
Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command, CE23155
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Sigaar
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Posted - 2010.03.23 09:25:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Sigaar on 23/03/2010 09:25:27
Common concept atm is that t3 > command for pretty much any purpose.
Except the price ù command ship is cheaper.
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Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 00:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tornicks
I would like to ask about the bonuses:
I have an example when EFT says that a Shield Harmonizing link+Shield gang mindlink will result in a 22.5% bonus in fleet shield resistances. Which figure is this percentage added to? Surely it does not concern the already present resists, as that could raise the shield tanked ships' resists to 100%.
So which figure is taken for adding this 22.5% to?
Anybody?
--
'Non-essential personnel, abandon ship.'
Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command, CE23155
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.03.25 01:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tornicks
Originally by: Tornicks
I would like to ask about the bonuses:
I have an example when EFT says that a Shield Harmonizing link+Shield gang mindlink will result in a 22.5% bonus in fleet shield resistances. Which figure is this percentage added to? Surely it does not concern the already present resists, as that could raise the shield tanked ships' resists to 100%.
So which figure is taken for adding this 22.5% to?
Anybody?
They're calculated the same way resists from modules are calculated.
For instance, let's say your resists are 90% and you add a 50% hardener. Ignoring stacking, this means your new resist will be 95%, or 0.9+((1-0.9)*0.5). This means you take 50% damage less then you did (say, assuming a shot does 100 damage, you will take 5 instead of 10).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tornicks
Caldari
U-208
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 09:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Tornicks
Originally by: Tornicks
I would like to ask about the bonuses:
I have an example when EFT says that a Shield Harmonizing link+Shield gang mindlink will result in a 22.5% bonus in fleet shield resistances. Which figure is this percentage added to? Surely it does not concern the already present resists, as that could raise the shield tanked ships' resists to 100%.
So which figure is taken for adding this 22.5% to?
Anybody?
They're calculated the same way resists from modules are calculated.
For instance, let's say your resists are 90% and you add a 50% hardener. Ignoring stacking, this means your new resist will be 95%, or 0.9+((1-0.9)*0.5). This means you take 50% damage less then you did (say, assuming a shot does 100 damage, you will take 5 instead of 10).
Thank you.
--
'Non-essential personnel, abandon ship.'
Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command, CE23155
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adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.03.26 19:22:00 -
[30]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291391
Assembly hall thread for boosting field command ships (the non boosting ones, absolution, nighthawk, astarte, sleipnir), come and support or discuss it if you wish for them to be somewhat viable :)
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE
if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
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