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Frozen Corpses
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Posted - 2010.02.15 06:01:00 -
[1]
I just lost my crane today so I decided to redo the loadout. After flying it for over a year in providence, syndicate, curse, lonetrek, and blackrise Im confident I have the tactics down pat to avoid losing it.
Before I would always just hit warp to within 100km of a planet/star. Whatever my ship was already aligned closest too. Fire the MWD and cloak up. This is how I died today. A dramiel/falcon/and sabre (interdictor) uncloaked me then webbed/scrammed/ecm/and finally bubbled me to death. The problem lies in the dictors, they have a speed of 2-3k m/s and can close in on you on small gates to uncloak you at your last known position before warp off. Then theres the dramiel which can go 3-5k m/s. The chances you will get uncloaked are very high in null with these ships.
After testing this out the best way to fly it seems to be when entering a system with a small fast gang. You wanna move below/above the gate, or away from the gate if the gangs on the opposite side of the gate. Dont align to anything until your safely away from the gate/bubbles.
As soon as you click to move, hit your MWD and immediately hit your cloak. This will put you about 30km away from small gates after the MWD is done cycling. Simply warping to planet, hitting MWD then Cloak will only move you 14k from gate before entering warp (thats only 1-2k from your original position).
Heres a loadout for the Crane I suggest: Linkage
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Karl Axelman
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Posted - 2010.02.15 11:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Frozen Corpses Fire the MWD and cloak up. This is how I died today.
Originally by: Frozen Corpses ... hit your MWD and immediately hit your cloak.
And you're not cloaking first because??? |
Sha4d13
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.02.15 12:28:00 -
[3]
I think you have it wrong tbh. The longer you hang around, the more likely they are to decloak you and the more chance they have dropped a bubble on you.
Clearly if the bubble is already up then you need to manouvre anyway. If not though, you want to get out fast. You dont move far enough cloaked to be safe except in something that is very fast cloaked. With drones out, heading in your general direction, they will uncloak you before you get 30k from the gate.
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Dante Fitzosborne
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Posted - 2010.02.15 12:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Karl Axelman
Originally by: Frozen Corpses Fire the MWD and cloak up. This is how I died today.
Originally by: Frozen Corpses ... hit your MWD and immediately hit your cloak.
And you're not cloaking first because???
Because if you hit MWD and then immediately hit cloak you will get one cycle of MWD before the cloak turns it off AND you will be cloaked. If you hit cloak first your MWD will just give you the "You can't do this because you are cloaked," message and will only move at whatever your max cloaked velocity is.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.02.15 13:35:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ralnik on 15/02/2010 13:35:35
Originally by: Dante Fitzosborne
Originally by: Karl Axelman
Originally by: Frozen Corpses Fire the MWD and cloak up. This is how I died today.
Originally by: Frozen Corpses ... hit your MWD and immediately hit your cloak.
And you're not cloaking first because???
Because if you hit MWD and then immediately hit cloak you will get one cycle of MWD before the cloak turns it off AND you will be cloaked. If you hit cloak first your MWD will just give you the "You can't do this because you are cloaked," message and will only move at whatever your max cloaked velocity is.
Actually you can hit cloak first then hit the MWD and you still get the full MWD cycle. You just have to do it fast. .....
FactionWarfare.com New forum dedicated to all four FW factions. |
Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2010.02.15 15:42:00 -
[6]
I hear if you log out before they agress you can't lose your ship. c/d?
tactic: jump through gate see dramiel logofski
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2010.02.15 16:28:00 -
[7]
I would suggest never run directly towards an object in space, and never "run" from the gate. By this, I mean don't mwd+cloak in a direction that puts the gate directly behind you. This makes it pretty easy for people sitting on the gate to align to you and travel in the same path you are (for easy decloaking). Always head at a 90 degree angle from the gate, if I'm explaining it correctly so that only empty space is behind you.
This would be your best bet, I hope I am clear. It's a little difficult to explain without a picture.
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Frozen Corpses
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Posted - 2010.02.15 20:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sha4d13 I think you have it wrong tbh. The longer you hang around, the more likely they are to decloak you and the more chance they have dropped a bubble on you.
Clearly if the bubble is already up then you need to manouvre anyway. If not though, you want to get out fast. You dont move far enough cloaked to be safe except in something that is very fast cloaked. With drones out, heading in your general direction, they will uncloak you before you get 30k from the gate.
Drones dont uncloak you any more. Fixed couple patches ago... But logoffski wont work, because in 0.0 you would log off at every gate sometimes.
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nether void
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.02.15 20:34:00 -
[9]
Slightly off topic, but I'm curious. What's your general profit margin after the loss? What was your profit from buying the Crane?
Profit from goods sold - Cost of Crane = net profit
I'm curious because I'm wondering if doing this ever really makes enough money to warrant the risk of the expensive ship...I mean more than you could make in relative safety in high sec, npc corp. I would love to have the adrenaline rush of that kind of trade, but only if more risk = more net profit even after the ship is eventually lost (because we all know eventually it will be lost).
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.02.16 00:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: nether void I'm curious because I'm wondering if doing this ever really makes enough money to warrant the risk of the expensive ship...I mean more than you could make in relative safety in high sec, npc corp.
Don't see why you'd asume he's a trader even if there's a chance he is. Most transports out in 0.0 is just normal people moving their own stuff around.
as for your question it's too general, depends on area and your own knowledge/scouting capabilies but in short yes it can be very lucrative and yes it also involves some risk taking.
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claritalia
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Posted - 2010.02.16 02:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: claritalia on 16/02/2010 02:20:12 Okay Im going to add a tad bit of advice also. after hitting the micro warp and cloak u need to change direction immediately inside a bubble. the ship trying to uncloak you will always hit approach to try to uncloak you but he will be at ur last known uncloaked position. So by changing direction after cloak they will usually fly right by. Also when warping to a known bottle neck traveling in 0.0 make a book mark that is not aligned with the a planet, peferrable between moons. use your system map to do this. This will prevent you from being dragged into a bubble thats not encompassing the gate( due to not being in the same path of the warp point). I used these tactics many times, but it just my 2cents.
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Galius Zed
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Posted - 2010.02.16 04:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Frozen Corpses ...You wanna move below/above the gate, or away from the gate if the gangs on the opposite side of the gate. Dont align to anything until your safely away from the gate/bubbles.
As soon as you click to move, hit your MWD and immediately hit your cloak. This will put you about 30km away from small gates after the MWD is done cycling. Simply warping to planet, hitting MWD then Cloak will only move you 14k from gate before entering warp (thats only 1-2k from your original position)...
I was most successful at doing this exact thing. A smart ceptor pilot will simply click align to the same celestial you did while cloaking.
I moved at a random, clear, part of space (sometimes only spot you can in a big camp), use mwd/cloakie process and then serpentine under cloak to a clear celestial alignment. This even worked for non covops ships.
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lilrez
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.02.16 05:35:00 -
[13]
Or just burn back to the gate you came from and jump out. |
The AEther
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.16 06:46:00 -
[14]
If there are several small high-speed ships camping gate + bubbler I would probably wait out session timer, cloak, then mwd-cycle towards the gate. When I am really close by or have lost cloak I'd initiate warp to some random object to give dictor aggression through its bubble, then try to jump out back to the system I came from. You won't be making progress forward so to say but at least on the other side there won't be bubble surprises for you & with some tank and T2 resists it is likely your ship will remain intact.
Agony Unleashed - no blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes |
Frozen Corpses
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Posted - 2010.02.16 06:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Frozen Corpses on 16/02/2010 07:01:11
Originally by: nether void Slightly off topic, but I'm curious. What's your general profit margin after the loss? What was your profit from buying the Crane?
Profit from goods sold - Cost of Crane = net profit
I'm curious because I'm wondering if doing this ever really makes enough money to warrant the risk of the expensive ship...I mean more than you could make in relative safety in high sec, npc corp. I would love to have the adrenaline rush of that kind of trade, but only if more risk = more net profit even after the ship is eventually lost (because we all know eventually it will be lost).
I move my own stuff for the most part. But I do keep around 1bil in the market of the 0.0 npc regions. And yes, cranes now cost 100mil, but are normally 70mil. Imagine selling everything at double its price, sell pvp fittings for popular ships in 0.0. I mean ****, I sell dessies for 2 mil, frigs for 1 mil. So yes, I make enough to lose that transport. And many more ships. My profits are about 1 bil a month. And Im not a trader. I just like selling marked up items to players that I killed or killed me
Quote: Okay Im going to add a tad bit of advice also. after hitting the micro warp and cloak u need to change direction immediately inside a bubble. the ship trying to uncloak you will always hit approach to try to uncloak you but he will be at ur last known uncloaked position. So by changing direction after cloak they will usually fly right by. Also when warping to a known bottle neck traveling in 0.0 make a book mark that is not aligned with the a planet, peferrable between moons. use your system map to do this. This will prevent you from being dragged into a bubble thats not encompassing the gate( due to not being in the same path of the warp point). I used these tactics many times, but it just my 2cents.Smile
Yea, thats what I was trying to say. Dont do moons though, they have POS's. Do planets and never warp to 0. Sometimes you get lucky, like I cloaked up a geddon and a ferox on a small gate in stain camped by 8 systematic chaos guys. lol, try and hide a battleship going 30 m/s on a small gate. fun
Quote: Or just burn back to the gate you came from and jump out.
No surpise this is advice from a goon. Any small gate camp is gonna have a webber/scrammer. You only go back to gate if you get uncloaked. Why have a covert op transport if you run back to gate everytime. Defeats the purpose.
Quote: If there are several small high-speed ships camping gate + bubbler I would probably wait out session timer, cloak, then mwd-cycle towards the gate. When I am really close by or have lost cloak I'd initiate warp to some random object to give dictor aggression through its bubble, then try to jump out back to the system I came from. You won't be making progress forward so to say but at least on the other side there won't be bubble surprises for you & with some tank and T2 resists it is likely your ship will remain intact.
Ahh, but most 0.0 camps are on small gates. Not the region ones that go lowsec-nullsec. Death awaits you on the other side as well.
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Ilyr
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Posted - 2010.02.16 07:09:00 -
[16]
Once I was travelling in Stain and after jumped through a gate where a small camp was, I immediately started warp+cloak. Right after that a Flycatcher decloaked and dropped a bubble. I was a bit surprised that my warp stopped and forgott to activate the MWD. Maybe the guy was expecting me to do so, because he was burning toward me, just to hush away 3-4 km front of my cloaked CovOps. The first time was that sitting dumb saved my life, but not something that I would try again intentionally or would recommend to anybody else... :D
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lilrez
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.02.16 07:55:00 -
[17]
It doesn't defeat the purpose because blockade runners aren't "get out of gatecamps free" cards. They do offer huge advantages over industrials, which would die to every single gate camp you jump into. It's up to you to exercise your judgement based on where you are in relation to the 1) enemies 2) edge of bubble (where applicable) 3) if there are fast locking ships.
If you want to throw some more isk at it use a 3% Rogue C/A/G/Zor's Hyper-link implant set and use heat on your cloak/mwd cycle. |
The AEther
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.16 20:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: The AEther on 16/02/2010 21:06:12
Originally by: Frozen Corpses
Quote: If there are several small high-speed ships camping gate + bubbler I would probably wait out session timer, cloak, then mwd-cycle towards the gate. When I am really close by or have lost cloak I'd initiate warp to some random object to give dictor aggression through its bubble, then try to jump out back to the system I came from. You won't be making progress forward so to say but at least on the other side there won't be bubble surprises for you & with some tank and T2 resists it is likely your ship will remain intact.
Ahh, but most 0.0 camps are on small gates. Not the region ones that go lowsec-nullsec. Death awaits you on the other side as well.
Yeah i'm not assuming that they are actually sitting there camping the hugenormous lowsec/nullsec gates. If several of them have aggressed they won't be able to come through with you. If you initiated warp from bubble dictor put up it also won't be able to jump together with you. So what are you expecting to be delivering death to you on other side?
It takes time for them to decloak you and put webs/scrams on you, it takes time for you to decelerate. Meanwhile you just have to cover 13km on a mwding blockade runner. And good news is that this will also give them aggression timer of 1 minute so if you make it, they won't be able to jump through with you.
And like lilrez is saying going back sometimes makes more sense than proceeding further even though that goes against what you are trying to accomplish with a blockade runner. They are just not impervious to all situations. It is up to you to assess the camp and decide how best to proceed, but good news is that you have entire 30 seconds of gate cloak to think about it.
Agony Unleashed - no blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes |
Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.02.19 05:58:00 -
[19]
btw,
How do you calculate align time? Is there a formula?
Thanks,
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Walker Bulldog
Minmatar VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2010.02.19 08:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Forge Trader btw,
How do you calculate align time? Is there a formula?
Thanks,
Plug your fit and skills into EFT and it'll tell you the align time from a complete standstill.
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Inari Ryosaki
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Posted - 2010.02.19 09:44:00 -
[21]
why do the blockade running in the first place? From 0.0, each day probe out wormholes...when you find one to empire do your shopping run. This equals minimal risk :)
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2010.02.19 11:00:00 -
[22]
Whatever you do, don't forget to load some Nano Repair Paste and pre-overheat the MWD, that way you'll get significantly better acceleration.
If you don't pre-overheat then you won't get the benefit on that all important first cycle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards. |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.19 22:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 19/02/2010 22:43:42
Originally by: Forge Trader btw,
How do you calculate align time? Is there a formula?
Thanks,
When you are not moving, align time is 0 seconds. Accelerating to 75% max velocity depends on your ship's mass, inertial modifier, and agility (reduces the modifier).
time to warp = <ship's mass> * <ship's inertial modifier> * -ln(0.25)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.20 04:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Frozen Corpses
I move my own stuff for the most part. But I do keep around 1bil in the market of the 0.0 npc regions. And yes, cranes now cost 100mil, but are normally 70mil. Imagine selling everything at double its price, sell pvp fittings for popular ships in 0.0. I mean ****, I sell dessies for 2 mil, frigs for 1 mil. So yes, I make enough to lose that transport. And many more ships. My profits are about 1 bil a month. And Im not a trader. I just like selling marked up items to players that I killed or killed me
isn't that like the definition of trading?
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.20 05:45:00 -
[25]
Three questions.
1. Warping to the sun. Bad idea/good idea?
2. WTZ directly to next gate. Bad/good?
3. Does activating cloak while session timer is still in effect expose your ship for a second?
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BuckStrider
Naughty 40
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jerid Verges Three questions.
1. Warping to the sun. Bad idea/good idea?
2. WTZ directly to next gate. Bad/good?
3. Does activating cloak while session timer is still in effect expose your ship for a second?
1. Bad....If I can, I generally warp to a belt. If there are no belts, I warp to a moon. Warping to planets is kinda a bad thing, since if someone sees what way you went, they will follow and usually go for the planet first.
2. If in 0.0 and there are hostile locals...HELL NO, esp if the exit gate is way out of scan range from anywhere. If you can get within scan range, see if they have any bubbles/dictors/HICs...If you see a dictor, turn off overview settings and see if they have a warp probe out. If you cant get within scan range, warp to a planet (or moon/belt) that is not inline with your exit gate, then warp...You'll generally avoid catch bubles and if they do have a dictor bubble up, you'll come in at an odd angle and not directly gate to gate where the hostiles will generally be guarding.
3. You cannot use cloak while in session timer cloak, you have to move first in order to activate your cloak. So yes, you will "flash" visible for a second as you move and cloak
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.02.20 22:04:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Taedrin on 20/02/2010 22:04:58
Originally by: BuckStrider
Originally by: Jerid Verges Three questions.
1. Warping to the sun. Bad idea/good idea?
2. WTZ directly to next gate. Bad/good?
3. Does activating cloak while session timer is still in effect expose your ship for a second?
1. Bad....If I can, I generally warp to a belt. If there are no belts, I warp to a moon. Warping to planets is kinda a bad thing, since if someone sees what way you went, they will follow and usually go for the planet first.
2. If in 0.0 and there are hostile locals...HELL NO, esp if the exit gate is way out of scan range from anywhere. If you can get within scan range, see if they have any bubbles/dictors/HICs...If you see a dictor, turn off overview settings and see if they have a warp probe out. If you cant get within scan range, warp to a planet (or moon/belt) that is not inline with your exit gate, then warp...You'll generally avoid catch bubles and if they do have a dictor bubble up, you'll come in at an odd angle and not directly gate to gate where the hostiles will generally be guarding.
3. You cannot use cloak while in session timer cloak, you have to move first in order to activate your cloak. So yes, you will "flash" visible for a second as you move and cloak
Good advice if I ever heard any.
I would just like to emphasize that if there are neuts/reds in the system, then you almost NEVER want to warp gate-to-gate at any distance. Even warping at 100km can get you "sucked" into a bubble. Warp to another celestial object first, such that you warp in out of alignment with their sling/catch bubbles. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Ka Vin
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Posted - 2010.02.26 03:54:00 -
[28]
If you have been flying ANYWHERE for over a year then the best weapons you have against camps while flying ANY ship are: Book Marks in each and every system you expect to be flying in. A scout. When you move into an area one of your first priorities should be to pick up a frig or a ceptor and fly around through all the systems you might want to make use of and BM BM BM. BM at least 250km above and below gates to avoid bubbles. BM insta warps off ststions in low sec or null sec where hostiles may look to trap you as you leave. BM safe spots/Deep safes in any system where you expect to perform any sustained actvities such as ratting, mining, plexing, gas harvesting & etc. Don't use old plexes or sites as BMs, they are too close to planets (I believe always within 4 AU). set up multiple deep safes if you plan on hanging around while someone tries to probe you out, otherwise log off. Set up you directional with "use current overview settings" checkbox unchecked to be able to see if someone is trying to use combat probes to scan you out. fly to a celestial object...(belt /moon/whatever) relatively near to your outbound gate and directional scan to see if there are any bubbles up if there are hostiles or neuts in system. If you are in a fast enough ship and you jump through a gate into a bubble, run like hell BACK to the gate and jump back through. and keep jumping back and forth if you have too if they keep persuing you. And last but definitely not least. If all you are doing is travelling and you want to get from point A to point B, then fit your ship accordingly, warp stab the hell out of it, MWD, cloak, ECM if you can make it work, TANK, and bring a slower and weaker buddy to trip and leave behind you so you can make it through.( I like newb scouts in disposable ships for this) Hmm I'm sure there's more things you should do while travelling but that lot seems to do it for me. barring just plain misfortune.
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Spruillo
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Posted - 2010.02.26 05:49:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Spruillo on 26/02/2010 05:54:15 And always remember
Originally by: Ka Vin stuff mwd stabs cloak etc etc
have huge asshurt multiplyers multiplyed directly in proportional to situational and tactical need of ccp aluded and implyed benifits of said equipment.
A general rule of thumb.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.26 07:23:00 -
[30]
Recently I encountered a formidable bubble camp I just didn't dare to attempt to sneak past... so I waited them out.
How did I pass the time? BOOKMARKING! Oh boy did I create a lot of bookmarks!
Drove them nuts. I think they eventually figured I was AFK cloaking and they eventually left. I've now got a nice big bookmark collection for that route for the next trip.
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