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How the Unified Inventory should have been designed

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kim Blackstone Booty hunter's 16	Posted - 2012.06.29 03:46:00 - [1] - Quote I am not a proponent of reverting to the old UI.... But I don't like the new UI either. They are both rubbish. Just a few months ago I joined Eve and the first thing I noticed about the game... believe it or not, was the UI. I can't remember how many times I yelled in frustration due to the UI. Being an already complicated game, Eve's UI really doesn't make things any easier. Truth to be told, I was excited about the new UI changes, initially at least. I remember how I was always struggling with pinning down inventory windows that I wanted static, and it would always get altered when I open some random cargo. The Unified inventory gave me hope that the issue was finally going to get resolved.... only that it didn't. It created more problems with dragging and dropping than anyone could imagine. The unified inventory team overlooked the most basic function of an inventory system: to move things around. In an effort to simplify the multitude of inventory windows needed, they broke this most important function. There is only 2 sensible way of moving things in computing environments, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, or drag and drop. In a CTRL-X, CTRL-V environment, only 1 window is ever necessary to achieve what you want to do. Tree-view systems are intended to be used by these kind of system. The tree-view would provide easy and quick access to locations, and CTRL-X would hold your items until you reach the destination to CTRL-V it. In a Drag and Drop system, it's always most efficient with 2 windows open. One source location, and one destination location. Just drag and drop. Simple. Using drag and drop in a tree view system is exceptionally inefficient, unless implemented like Mac OS X's column view. And even still... it does not compare to simply having 2 windows open. That, is the core issue with the current unified inventory. To attempt to make 2 fundamentally incompatible system work together. As Eve does not have a CTRL-X, CTRL-V function, tree-veiw was a bound to be a mistake. To their credit, they are beginning to understand it, and realized that they must have at least 2 windows to make a drag and drop system work. Thus they implemented primary and secondary windows; as a CTRL-X, CTRL-V system would not make sense in the game. But this raises another problem. The source and destination locations are never static. Now you might want to move something from your cargo to the hanger, next docking you might want to move something from the corp hanger to the cargo. Which means a primary, secondary window will not really resolve all the issues.... What they need to do, is to implement the tree view in the NeoCom. Easy access of locations from the NeoCom, click to open static windows, drag and drop from as many sources to as many destination you like. An added benefit of this is that you don't duplicate the tree view in every inventory window - having useless elements taking up precious screen space. A refinement would be dragging items to the NeoCom and have the tree-veiw expand as your progress deeper. I believe a system like this is what CCP is aiming to deliver but failed to put it down in the drawing board before started coding. Traveling without knowing a clear destination rarely brings you to where you want to be. How the Unified Inventory should be like Comments and improvements are deeply appreciated.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 73	Posted - 2012.06.29 04:35:00 - [2] - Quote Kim Blackstone wrote: What they need to do, is to implement the tree view in the NeoCom. Easy access of locations from the NeoCom, click to open static windows, drag and drop from as many sources to as many destination you like. An added benefit of this is that you don't duplicate the tree view in every inventory window - having useless elements taking up precious screen space. A refinement would be dragging items to the NeoCom and have the tree-veiw expand as your progress deeper. Not a terrible idea, but I'd probably want to go all Oedipus on my Eyes if I ever got near a POS with this implemented. And it only works gracefully with simple inventory needs. It'll be less graceful when you mix in Corp Hangars in Stations, in Ships, various containers in everything. I don't really want to have to go down a cascade of dropdowns to go where I want. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Kim Blackstone Booty hunter's 17	Posted - 2012.06.29 04:56:00 - [3] - Quote I regret that I do not have experience with POS management, due to my relatively short time in EVE. But I imagine the list in the tree view be made dynamic. It should only contain listings that are needed / recently used. For example, ship wrecks will only show in the list if you opened one from the overview or space and is de-listed when you close it. To retain it in the NeoCom, you would minimize it.
Cloned S0ul Blood Fanatics 155	Posted - 2012.06.29 05:00:00 - [4] - Quote Answer to OP, it should be designed to avoid this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DatDZGpjjiM Teemo for president.
Kim Blackstone Booty hunter's 18	Posted - 2012.06.29 05:06:00 - [5] - Quote Cloned S0ul wrote: Answer to OP, it should be designed to avoid this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DatDZGpjjiM LOL I should probably emphasize that you should still be able to double click a can in space and open up a simple window specific for that can, like how the old UI has it.
Cloned S0ul Blood Fanatics 155	Posted - 2012.06.29 05:13:00 - [6] - Quote New UI got a lot new good fearures and options but in whole new form and this force player to do more task while simple operations, they should just redesign old ui + add some new fearures, well meny of players just said adep or die, come on all what you need is to learn how it works etc, but i still i dont like it that why i dont play this game like before, i spent more time in forum than in game because of UI, espetialy im owner of triple box and this UI just made me mad. Teemo for president.
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 883	Posted - 2012.06.29 05:37:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: How the unified inventory should have been designed http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Norton_commander.png
Tao Arnst Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2012.06.29 05:54:00 - [8] - Quote It should have been left alone. It's the one thing that everyone used and is so central to almost everything you do in EvE. The previous inventory ran for so many years BECAUSE it worked. It's just common sense, If I looked into a box in real, I don't see the contents of every box in my house. Anyone complaining about alot of windows they had open, that wasn't because the previous inventory was flawed, it's because YOU are flawed. This new inventory is for files, If I look into a file cabinet, then I see a tree like structure. Thats why this design is for OS's. Just because some dev has a sick fascination with win7 OR a player has a lack of intelligence by having windows all over his screen, Does not mean the the greater good has to sink to their handicap and be forced, or have to leave a game that we have been playing for alot of years. I'd like to see a thread regarding the problems with the previous inventory, REAL problems, NOT the Players lack of intelligence to use a system that has been in use, and worked very well, for MANY years. As it stands now, the client is broken, PERIOD. I've been playing a game that I don't need to worked around to play, and its a shame, because EvE was great, I lived it, and now I have to not play it because a company that doesn't care has given up on it and destroyed it............ Was the Title "Inferno" given to this release because its a Steaming Pile of St**? Most people embrace GOOD change Parasites embrace BAD change
Luis Graca 93	Posted - 2012.06.29 06:21:00 - [9] - Quote There's people that like the new UI and there's people that hate it, If fine with that i only would like to know is why i can't choose the UI i want By other words i would prefer to have both UI exist and let the players choose the one they want
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 14	Posted - 2012.06.29 06:44:00 - [10] - Quote Kim Blackstone wrote: The unified inventory team overlooked the most basic function of an inventory system: to move things around. In an effort to simplify the multitude of inventory windows needed, they broke this most important function. There is only 2 sensible way of moving things in computing environments, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, or drag and drop. In a CTRL-X, CTRL-V environment, only 1 window is ever necessary to achieve what you want to do. Tree-view systems are intended to be used by these kind of system. The tree-view would provide easy and quick access to locations, and CTRL-X would hold your items until you reach the destination to CTRL-V it. In a Drag and Drop system, it's always most efficient with 2 windows open. One source location, and one destination location. Just drag and drop. Simple. Using drag and drop in a tree view system is exceptionally inefficient, unless implemented like Mac OS X's column view. And even still... it does not compare to simply having 2 windows open. Well, your assumption is wrong, at least for me. Especially when moving a lot of things by drag and drop, the new ui is a great improvement for me BECAUSE I don't have to open a lot of things any more. Most of them can be easily reached by the tree view. Before, I used to open all the cans I knew I would need, put them in one window and move things from one place to the other by dropping the items on the tabs. Things got awkward, as soons as corp hangar or other windows were involved. This tree view thing is something I really like, because it supports the way I do things. If I don't need it for once, all I have to do to free up space in the window is push one single button and it's hidden. I really do appreciate this change. There are issues with size, look and feel or requirement for some of the ui elements, but I guess CCP will sort these issues out over time. I haven't tested out the new ui in depth yet, I do not have a lot of time to play before fall. But this thing is not broken conceptionally. At least not for me. I'd even like other places to be integrated in it in some way like the remote personal or corp stuff. I'm actually missing this at the moment.


ISD Libertina ISD STAR 5	Posted - 2012.06.29 06:55:00 - [11] - Quote Kim Blackstone wrote: That, is the core issue with the current unified inventory. To attempt to make 2 fundamentally incompatible system work together. As Eve does not have a CTRL-X, CTRL-V function, tree-veiw was a bound to be a mistake. To their credit, they are beginning to understand it, and realized that they must have at least 2 windows to make a drag and drop system work. Thus they implemented primary and secondary windows; as a CTRL-X, CTRL-V system would not make sense in the game. Eve does however support CTRL-X and CTRL-V in the inventory system and did so from the very beginning. I personally use it all the time. Select some items (or CTRL-A if you want to select everything), hit CTRL-X, select another location in the inventory and drop what you cut with CTRL-V. Libertina Vice Admiral Support, Training And Resources Interstellar Services Department

Seleia O'Sinnor Drop of Honey 230	Posted - 2012.06.29 07:12:00 - [12] - Quote Read Tippi's Rants, pretty good blog post regarding the new inventory. EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping.
Rudgier Thorrin CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans 11	Posted - 2012.06.29 07:48:00 - [13] - Quote St Mio wrote: Quote: How the unified inventory should have been designed http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Norton_commander.png ^This. ISD Libertina wrote: Eve does however support CTRL-X and CTRL-V in the inventory system and did so from the very beginning. I personally use it all the time. Select some items (or CTRL-A if you want to select everything), hit CTRL-X, select another location in the inventory and drop what you cut with CTRL-V. Can we also get CTRL+C to work? > Implying I need a signature

ISD Libertina ISD STAR 5	Posted - 2012.06.29 08:14:00 - [14] - Quote Rudgier Thorrin wrote: Can we also get CTRL+C to work? CTRL+C ship replacement program? I think not! Libertina Vice Admiral Support, Training And Resources Interstellar Services Department

Rats Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2012.06.29 08:20:00 - [15] - Quote Now that we have multiple windows thus killing the one window to rule them all premise, Can we have the old UI back ? or at least something resembling the look, feel, functionality of the old UI. It sad because CCP where warned how unpopular this was going to be but ignored the warnings. It ruined the last expansion, we should have been talking about how great missiles are and arguing over war mechanics, not still chewing the cud over the damn UI. It less intuitive has more clicks, and every time I open the UI window a puppy dies in the word, makes Tal sad. Tal
Delen Ormand Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 72	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:13:00 - [16] - Quote A simple suggestion that would fix any issues for me: Once I've opened an inventory window where I want, showing what I want, let me have a way to put it on the neocom as a permanent button. Permanent to the extent that it won't disappear unless I r-click and select 'remove', anyway. When I click the button, the window opens to whatever it was originally set as (eg, Ship Hangar). Let me put as many of these buttons as I like on the neocom. That'd do it for me.
Virgil Travis GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated 369	Posted - 2012.06.29 11:20:00 - [17] - Quote ISD Libertina wrote: Rudgier Thorrin wrote: Can we also get CTRL+C to work? CTRL+C ship replacement program? I think not! You spoil all our fun you do Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Gun Gal Dark Club 19	Posted - 2012.06.29 12:34:00 - [18] - Quote If you took a Poll of everyone who played eve, not the minority who use the forums to whine, you would find overwhelmingly a more favorable outlook on the new UI. For most, it is actually easier, then again, you need to be of more intelligence than the elitist hillbilly's that post on the forums all the time, espousing their opinions of how they, without jobs in the gaming industry can do it so much better.
Andoria Thara Fallen Avatars 64	Posted - 2012.06.29 12:52:00 - [19] - Quote I personally would like to see an inventory manager that works like MMC. Create a NeoCom object, then add inventory items (snap-ins) to that object.
Kim Blackstone Booty hunter's 20	Posted - 2012.06.29 14:30:00 - [20] - Quote I never knew CTRL-X, CTRL-V was implemented. With it, there should be no difficulty moving between inventories. Thanks for the tips. Perhaps it should be made known to more people. CTRL-X CTRL-V is odd for games, as it's not an intuitive system - but certainly the most efficient in a 1 window environment. Good for geeks but bad for everyone else. I watched Tippia's video and read his post, and agree with another problem, monitoring different locations. Not even the MMC / Norton Commander will be sufficient to handle that. Only multiple windows will ever be able to do that. Unified inventory team really made a big bad assumption that "the opposite of multiple windows is one window". Building the tree-view in the NeoCom would retain the benefits of the Unified inventory and provide a central location to launch multiple windows that are static. I don't know how feasible is that with the current coding. But I'd like to hear more pro and cons about building the tree-veiw in the NeoCom that supports an organized multiple window setup. And no shift clicking. As it stands, even if there is no desire to make major changes to the UI, there are many improvements needed. Small things that make using it less of a chore, e.g. 1. Make it possible to scroll by just hovering over, without the need to click to give focus 2. Make it scroll when dragging to the top or bottom of the tree view 3. Keep the filter section minimized by default, or remember if it was minimized or not 4. Making it possible to spam Loot All button 5. Saved states for windows 6. Many of the feedback from the feedback thread.

Kim Blackstone Booty hunter's 21	Posted - 2012.06.29 14:33:00 - [21] - Quote Gun Gal wrote: If you took a Poll of everyone who played eve, not the minority who use the forums to whine, you would find overwhelmingly a more favorable outlook on the new UI. For most, it is actually easier, then again, you need to be of more intelligence than the elitist hillbilly's that post on the forums all the time, espousing their opinions of how they, without jobs in the gaming industry can do it so much better. Tell that to people who actually use corp windows and manages POS
black cree Utopian Research I.E.L. 31	Posted - 2012.06.29 15:06:00 - [22] - Quote Gun Gal wrote: If you took a Poll of everyone who played eve, not the minority who use the forums to whine, you would find overwhelmingly a more favorable outlook on the new UI. For most, it is actually easier, then again, you need to be of more intelligence than the elitist hillbilly's that post on the forums all the time, espousing their opinions of how they, without jobs in the gaming industry can do it so much better. How do you manage to put so much in so little space? First it s slightly off topic, we elitist hillbillies discuss here UI design, wether you like it or not. I bet this thread will end up in some obscure subforums very soon anyway. Second, no poll was actually made by ccp. "If something out of my imagination would happen, then surely another thing out of my imagination would be overwhelming". Third you acknowledge that in order to be easier than old UI you need to be "of more intelligence". What about lazy and stupid people like myself? Sometimes I honestly can't guess what the reaction of the new UI will be, and it needs more clicks too. Fourth, you dont need to be a professional cook to tell the waiter that the food is disgusting or that you never ordered a meatloaf ice cream.
Rudgier Thorrin CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans 12	Posted - 2012.06.29 21:12:00 - [23] - Quote ISD Libertina wrote: Rudgier Thorrin wrote: Can we also get CTRL+C to work? CTRL+C ship replacement program? I think not! There goes my dream of building a station out of matari carriers... I think I'll go shoot a monument somewhere out of frustration :( Quote: meatloaf ice cream. ^ WTB > Implying I need a signature


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