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Wallymarts
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Posted - 2010.02.21 20:10:00 -
[1]
Ive looked around, and cant find a straight answer, but here goes.
If i take a BPC with 30 ME and 30 PE, will the Invented Tech II BPC hold the Original ME and PE levels, or does it go to 0?
Im hoping it holds those values, if not, looks like it cuts into the Profit you can make. :(
Flame ON!
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Kazang
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2010.02.21 20:38:00 -
[2]
ME and PE of the BPC used in the invention process does not effect the outcome.
Invented BPCs nearly always have terrible, often negative ME, the only way to effect the ME and PE of the result is to use decryptors in the invention job.
Kazang
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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.02.21 20:42:00 -
[3]
Invented bpc's cant have either ME or PE above zero. Typical ME and PE for a t2 invented bpc without decryptors is -4. I do not think the amount of research on the t1 bpo has any effect on what the base output of t2 bpc's are( i could be wrong but fairly sure its only with the use use decrptors that enhance ME and PE on invented bpc's)
So in short I can tell u the t2 bpc does not hold the exact research values as the t1 original. Second u make no money from invention its a waste of time and isk 
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Wallymarts
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Posted - 2010.02.21 20:57:00 -
[4]
Ok, so i need decryptors? got it..
And if there is no money to be had, why even have invention, something tells me you are wrong.
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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.02.21 21:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Wallymarts
Ok, so i need decryptors? got it..
And if there is no money to be had, why even have invention, something tells me you are wrong.
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Karox Lominax
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Karox Lominax on 21/02/2010 22:03:22
Originally by: Wallymarts
Ok, so i need decryptors? got it..
And if there is no money to be had, why even have invention, something tells me you are wrong.
You should tell the person who keeps sending me isk to stop then, cos I thought all of the cash I was making was from tech 2 production.
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Venny Jeeve
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Posted - 2010.02.21 23:30:00 -
[7]
To answer the initial question, after invention success, the t2 bpc, regardless of the decryptor used, will not return a BPC with an ME/PE equal to the originating t1 BPO.
IIRC, when invention is successful, with no decryptors used, t2 bpcs come out of the oven at a -3 ME and -3 PE.
EDITORIAL TO FOLLOW:
Like many manufacturing ventures in this game, the (Empire) margins are not great, even when it comes to invention, especially ships. There is profit to be made to be sure, but typically things like... ammo, drones, mods and weapons (and even many ships) will typically return about 10-20%. While this may seem like an acceptable return to any t1 manufacturer, the labor intensive method of t2 invention makes many items simply not worth producing if you do a time vs. return calculation.
This calculation is TOTALLY subjective to what each individual player's desired game experience is.
Profitable and less time consuming methods of t2 invention/production are generally determined on your ability to stockpile large amounts of t2 raw material, consumer goods, morphite and have ready access to t1 BPO/BPC copy production, invention labs and construction slots. Otherwise you will find yourself flying all over hell-and-gone to buy that one seeded game material you have 998 of and need 1000.
As an example, I set up an empire invention and assembly line in a single system near many seeded item systems (consumer electronics, transmitters, etc.) and a market hub. I found that the the initial month's investment (PRIOR TO SEEING ANY SUBSTANTIAL RETURN) was around 2-3billion isk in materials and I was doing drone and weapon invention.
This prevented me from having to fly all over the place, but I also had to keep a very close tabs on my inventory ratios and it really helps to have decently researched advanced material BPOs.
If you have ready access to a deep 0.0 market held by an alliance that doesn't have artificial market controls in place (such as Razor) and reliable means of transporting your goods, you can make a killing.
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Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2010.02.22 02:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Venny Jeeve
IIRC, when invention is successful, with no decryptors used, t2 bpcs come out of the oven at a -3 ME and -3 PE.
You recall incorrectly. Base invented T2 BPCs are -4/-4.
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Buster Bloodvessel
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Posted - 2010.02.22 02:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Buster Bloodvessel on 22/02/2010 02:30:24
I would recommend downloading eve-meep. It shows you the outcomes based on decryptors and your skills. In fact, I would say it is invaluable if you are inventing. It also gives profit and loss based on your skills/decrypters/base item. It shows you the outome BP as well. Seriously, just download it. You will realise how cavalier.random your invention was beforehand (no offence!)
wystler stole my sig |
Tribal Trader
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Posted - 2010.02.22 03:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Buster Bloodvessel
Edited by: Buster Bloodvessel on 22/02/2010 02:30:24
I would recommend downloading eve-meep. It shows you the outcomes based on decryptors and your skills. In fact, I would say it is invaluable if you are inventing. It also gives profit and loss based on your skills/decrypters/base item. It shows you the outome BP as well. Seriously, just download it. You will realise how cavalier.random your invention was beforehand (no offence!)
eve-hq and invention tool also work well to calculate profits. In general invention can be as time consuming as you like. If u have lots of time invent mods, little time invent ships. Remember to make plenty of invention attempts too so that the odds even out.
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Venny Jeeve
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Posted - 2010.02.23 02:42:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Venny Jeeve on 23/02/2010 02:43:27
Quote:
You recall incorrectly. Base invented T2 BPCs are -4/-4.
I stand corrected.
Originally by: Buster Bloodvessel
Edited by: Buster Bloodvessel on 22/02/2010 02:30:24
I would recommend downloading eve-meep.
Would you happen to have the link to eve-meep readily available? Dominion trashed Invention Calculator as development was halted prior to Dominion deployment.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.02.23 05:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venny Jeeve
Would you happen to have the link to eve-meep readily available?
There's a persistent EVE-MEEP thread in this very forum :)
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Icanti
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Posted - 2010.02.23 09:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Venny Jeeve
This calculation is TOTALLY subjective to what each individual player's desired game experience is.
This, totally this.
If your living in null then being able to manufacture your own T2 ships is great as it saves having to transport them through hostile space.
However, the profits in Empire are slim. Now it depends on what type of profits your used to. If your used to making 100s of millions a day with ease, invention probably isn't for you. It takes time, profits are slim and once you have your end product you still have to play the isk game on the market.
Same as T1 production. Profits are there, but are slim and its mainly done by people who mine their own minerals and sell the final product as if the minerals were free.
Just from what I've seen anyway....
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ZeeOhSix
Blackwater Manufacturing and Logistics
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Posted - 2010.02.25 17:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wallymarts
And if there is no money to be had, why even have invention, something tells me you are wrong.
As a newbie that is just dipping my toe into broad T1 manufacturing as well as invention, I can tell you with certainty that if you don't "do the math" you'll get screwed :) It's possible to build/invent one item and make 156% profit...and build/invent another and lose 34%. Exposing myself as a geek I'll use a Star Trek quote: "It may not be logical, but it is often true." I've talked to a bunch of folks that seem to think that if you can build something then of course you can sell it and make money - just ain't so.
Someone gave me good advice early on, which is "Excel is your friend.". I've shown some of my instructors the models I use for manufacture and invention, and it's right up there with very real business applications.
Again, I'm fairly new to this so I don't know squat - but this has been my experience.
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