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Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 01:59:00 - [1] This may sound a little extreme and Im not a Gal pilot so I`d Like to hear there thoughts on this. Since it seems to me that switching from Null at extremes to Antimatter or other ammos is basically a must at some point in the fight [Since your enemy will leave your optimal once they realize your a blaster ship] and since they have the smallest windows and shortest falloff and since they need a little boost why not make them have 1 sec reloads times like amarr does now. This would give em a small boost in overall DPS through a fight and give them a almost constant firing solution so there enemies only shot is to keep switching ranges. But as it sits to me all a enemy has to do when he is jumped by a Blaster boat is go to from 3km to 12km wait 10 secs for reload and move to 1km again and do tight orbits and repeat until they whittle the blaster boat down. Hell Imo Amarr doesnt need that bonus since there ammo`s seem to be the way more forgiving of the two [Scorch] If you amarr guys have a prob then I`d give them a 5 sec or 3 sec reload but Def IMO need to give the guys whos ammo needs changine 3x as bad as others the quikest ammo changes otherwise the only reason they keep it is story line crap that I hate. Comments please let me know. I want to hear from blaster guys in specific and let me know if it would help alot like I think or If they would rather tracking or some other buff. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Admiral Pelleon White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:04:00 - [2] How is he going to run from 3km to 12km again with a web on him, when you also have a MWD? ________ Real men fly Amarr.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:14:00 - [3] Lol so your saying enemies never make it in 10 secs with there MWD or AB`s on switching directions while your fat slow plated Boat has to turn around? It must happen or every ship that got in Blaster range that had way better range but a tad lower DMG [which is every ship almost lol] and lower EHP would die. Well then why does Adding plates even matter at all? Sorry doesnt sound right, and your Signiture saying your Pro Amarr has given you away If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/02/2010 02:54:53 Enemies that can dictate range against a blaster ship might do a lot of different things, but never one thing: going inside antimatter optimal. So yea, if he can freely choose to leave the 3km range, chances are he will never be there in the first place. If its not a laser boat it will hurt itself more than you by that kind of ammo changing game, and a laser boat will maintain range anyway, or not care if you close in at all and work with its advantage on the initial approach. But in some respect you are indeed right, lasers are the most forgiving weapon system as far as range is concerned, and from a RP standpoint I'd say that blasters, rails, autocannons and artillery should be the weapon systems with instant ammo change instead of lasers. Might even go a long way in regard of balancing them against lasers.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 05:38:00 - [5] I think it would level it out for blasters a bit...Heck I dont know why you only have 1 sec or 10 sec reload times. We need times in between. like 1secs 5secs 7.5 secs 10 secs etc etc We should have diff loading times for long range and short range and then also which ships are easier to be in range like Amarr, Cald etc. Also story wise and real life wise its way harder to fit differant focusing lens`s in a laser than say swapp a Arty Magazine, or just feed diff matter in the Rails and blasters...Missles would be EZ as pie also. I hope Eve comes out with Intermixing your first Mag. For instance HM missles=30 Before reload So I could just like real life stager the missles 2 Kinetic then 1 EM then 2 kinetic 1 Therm ETC ETC for only the first mag. They do it in real life in Arty mags etc and in almost all Clip fed weps and I think it would add more dimension to the game. Maybe make a new skill to do it. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Eli Porter	Posted - 2010.02.23 08:00:00 - [6] I have suggested a 5 seconds reload/ammo switch time on hybrids several times, but no reload time just seems like overkill.
Dibsi Dei Genos Occidere Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.02.23 08:11:00 - [7] 5 seconds reload time would indeed be good to have a little chance against lasers
Niclas Solo Amarr GANKsTers's inc. R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2010.02.23 09:21:00 - [8] Originally by: Eli Porter I have suggested a 5 seconds reload/ammo switch time on hybrids several times, but no reload time just seems like overkill. yeah 5 sec reload sounds great and in the same time give me scorch with exp dmg.
Flitz Farseeker Interstellar Stormfront	Posted - 2010.02.23 09:34:00 - [9] Alternative solution would be to increase reload times for increasing gun size. Switching a clip on a 150mm railgun is gotta be easier than on a 425. Could also implement increased times to switch lenses for bigger lazers, even if still less than for guns/missiles. Something like 2 secs for small, 5 for medium and 10 for large.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.23 09:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Niclas Solo yeah 5 sec reload sounds great and in the same time give me scorch with exp dmg. Yea, Scorch is so gimped at the moment I say we give it a 200% damage boost as well. And more tracking. And no cap usage.

Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 09:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Niclas Solo Originally by: Eli Porter I have suggested a 5 seconds reload/ammo switch time on hybrids several times, but no reload time just seems like overkill. yeah 5 sec reload sounds great and in the same time give me scorch with exp dmg. Lol fine then if the Blasters guys get T2 ammo for med Blasters that give em 25 km since scorch with pulses already does almost same DPS as blasters. For larges they get 45 km with Null same as Scorch. Hell if you wanna make it really fair... Lol scorch is best Ammo in the game BAR NONE and you get insta swapp on top of it, and crazy range that is still good tracking and wonderfully out of scaled DPS for long range. So yeah 5 sec ammo swapping for the Blasters who are 7 km range where you are 25km for the same DPS is fair IMO and I dont even fly Hybrids. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.23 10:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Kail Storm ... Nah, all weapons should do same dps with same optimal and tracking. Except rockets - rockets should suck forever!
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 10:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: Kail Storm ... Nah, all weapons should do same dps with same optimal and tracking. Except rockets - rockets should suck forever! Lol everytime someone says to close the gap a little in something that is lop sided the party who is reaping rewards trys to act like the person who wants it to be fair wants to make it all the same and kill the game. Lugal how exactly would cutting reload times down for blasters make them all the same???? Wow thats ******ed If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:13:00 - [14] I think there should be a skill that reduces reload time. I agree that Amarr have a big advantage when it comes to this, as they can switch from scorch to MF instantly. Maybe a 10% reduction in reload time per lvl would be good..
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.23 11:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Kail Storm Wow thats ****ed Why? Because you feel that blasters are not ok? And other ppl who fly 'land scram or jump' game /=pro pvpers in shield blasterboats without web/? But i was referring specifically to this bull : Originally by:** Kail Storm Lol fine then if the Blasters guys get T2 ammo for med Blasters that give em 25 km since scorch with pulses already does almost same DPS as blasters. For larges they get 45 km with Null same as Scorch... Blasters already outdps every other weapon systems at their optimal and thats what they should do. Nothing more, nothing less. And i dont believe in 'relative tracking' bull**, because it all leads to blasterboats being able to wtfpwn ships one class smaller like with 90% web. Originally by:** Ap0ll0n I think there should be a skill that reduces reload time. I agree that Amarr have a big advantage when it comes to this, as they can switch from scorch to MF instantly. Maybe a 10% reduction in reload time per lvl would be good.. Big advantage that is paid with high cap usage and high fitting requirements. The last thing eve need is med autocannons /i have specifically canes on mind, lets forget about faction and t2/ being able to switch ammo in 5s, choose damage type, control range vs 90% of ships and track good enough to shot down orbiting inty.
VanNostrum Tigers Of Anatolia	Posted - 2010.02.23 12:05:00 - [16] The reason why hybrids and projectiles don't reload instantly and amarr lasers do is because hybrid and projectile turrets (when groupped) run out of ammo at the same time whereas laser crystals are chance based. So in a group of lasers if one turret's crystal is broken the group has to keep firing, it would be ridiculous if it took 10 secs to reload a crystal.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.23 12:10:00 - [17] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/02/2010 12:14:48 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 The last thing eve need is med autocannons /i have specifically canes on mind, lets forget about faction and t2/ being able to switch ammo in 5s, choose damage type, control range vs 90% of ships and track good enough to shot down orbiting inty. You do realize what the typical speed and signature radius of orbiting interceptors is, right? Controlling range is a moot point if you get outdamaged or out tanked or even both by 2 of the competitior races /not that it works reliably outside 1v1 anyway/.
Dusica	Posted - 2010.02.23 12:20:00 - [18] sure but then increase capacitor need by 50%
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.23 12:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Omara Otawan ... I perfectly realize what typical speed and sig radius of orbiting inty is. I also realize, that only thing cane pilot needs to do is overheat its mwd and fly in one direction /if inty is already in orbit/. You do realize what is typical speed of cane with overheated mwd? After that, on half of the orbit inty is vulnerable to med acs. Easy. Controlling range /= controlling engagement/ is one of the biggest advantages your ship can have. You decide if you want to engage, you can disengage at will. Range advantage is nothing without speed that can keep you at range and its the same for tracking advantage. Also, we can perfectly see how 'moot point' it is on canes, vagas and cynabals /and guess what ship on frig level/.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.23 12:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/02/2010 12:44:43 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 I perfectly realize what typical speed and sig radius of orbiting inty is. I also realize, that only thing cane pilot needs to do is overheat its mwd and fly in one direction /if inty is already in orbit/. You do realize what is typical speed of cane with overheated mwd? 1.6-2kms, so not enough to drop the ceptors transversal low enough to score any significant hits without the ceptor overheating his MWD /unless the ceptor pilot is a re re/. Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 After that, on half of the orbit inty is vulnerable to med acs. Easy. If you think a realistic output of 10 dps /for half the time he is orbiting/ against the ceptor qualifies as vulnerable, then yes. You might actually kill a frigate in a BC before it killed you. Or your MWD burns out, which is actually more likely. If you actually want to drive him off before he has done his job /=the blob has landed/ then its not enough, not even with dual TEs. Also, Vagabond and Cynabal are a huge difference compared to the Hurricane in terms of controlling range, look at the speed difference, agility and the falloff bonus. They actually stand a chance to maintain range in engagements that arent 1v1, the cane does not.

Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Omara Otawan ... 10 dps? Roflmao. You are completely out of reality. I suggest you, get into inty and go enjoy 10dps canes. And yes, there is big difference between vaga/cyna and cane - but cane is still faster than other bcs and faster than plated cruisers. And has 2x more buffer and dps than nanoed cruiser hulls...
Psiri	Posted - 2010.02.23 13:45:00 - [22] With the overboost of autocannons I feel that blasters need some major love in order to compete. Better tracking, lowered fitting reqs and pherhaps yea, a shortened reload time.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.23 22:57:00 - [23] Why bring up tracking? I was only talking reload times, Please tell me Lugal and others against it why it would make them WTFPWN mobiles by cutting reload times in 1/2 for them? Also lugal if you dont see that scorch is way favored more than any T2 ammo by far then I dont know what to say. Also Fitting reqs for amarr are not so bad at all. Try being a Cald pilot for fitting reqs. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.23 23:43:00 - [24] Experience. For example - this char flies amarr and cali ships and i consider hml drake much better gang ship than pulse harbi. Funny? Reality. For ganks i use harbi ofc, but cant say its for scorch range... Bs level? I lol at ppl using megas in rr fleets when they can fly domi - one of best rr bses that can run 3 rrs /for a LONG time with nrg transfers/ and have awesome buffer. Even then megas are often on top of killmails, because most rr bs fights are slugfests with both fleets on top of each other. Good tactics? No way, but so much more fun than trying to warp the fleet from right direction to get 30k from enemy. Frig level - dont think anyone who is talking about weak blasters etc has frig guns in mind. Btw you glorified lasers are pretty awful at frig level /slow ships + too few mids/. Turning blastersboats into wtfpwn ships? No, it surely wouldnt happen, but i cant see reason to give them that advantage when they already can outdamage pulses /and acs/ in their optimal. If you landed scram, good for you, you have dps advantage. If you are not able to get your target into the scram range, your fail, you will die /nah, most likely you will jump or mwd away/. And fittings and cap usage ARE that bad for lasers. Amarr ships /designed to use lasers/ also most of the time lack frig defence, midslots, pg/cpu needed to fit utility mods and what is most important, they are slow - so their range advantage is more likely - inflict enough damage before they get too close to win dps/ehp race. Hm, did i mention vulnerability to neuts? Only thing why blasters look so weak now is projectile 'overboost' - as psiri said. Ah, do you know why ppl love scorch so much, easier to project damage in blobs, that fail hmls often dont even reach targets...
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.24 00:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 10 dps? Roflmao. You are completely out of reality. I suggest you, get into inty and go enjoy 10dps canes. Been there, done that. Most EFT warriors seem to neglect signature resolution of turrets and come up with magical tracking figures that have nothing to do with reality whatsoever. So yea, using 220s and dual TEs with faction ammo (pretty much the best option you get), a cane doesnt score any significant damage to my inty, no matter what he does. Breaking off quickly when you get blobbed is an entirely different story and you might catch a lucky volley, as well as shooting down incompetent inty pilots, but guess what, I can do that in a Tempest.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.24 01:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Experience. Bs level? I lol at ppl using megas in rr fleets when they can fly domi - one of best rr bses that can run 3 rrs /for a LONG time with nrg transfers/ and have awesome buffer. Even then megas are often on top of killmails, because most rr bs fights are slugfests with both fleets on top of each other. Good tactics? No way, but so much more fun than trying to warp the fleet from right direction to get 30k from enemy. BS Level right now is ran by Amarr for basically the sole reason of Insta swapping ammo and Scorch, you just said peeps in Megas are stupid...These are the ships that need help. Domi is a drone boat so insta ammo swapps dont mean as much. But why should amarr have the biggest Range of HI Range DPS ammos and the only insta loading? IMO the Insta loading is a relic of the Age when Amarr sucked and was the Lol race. This was done on another thread but still is true...Please tell me its fair Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L - 45km Optimal/10km Falloff - 44 DPS 800mm Repeating Artillery II - Barrage L - 6km Optimal/30km Falloff - 40 DPS Neutron Blaster Cannon II - Null L - 11km Optimal/16km Falloff - 52 DPS Heavy Pulse Laser II - Scorch M - 23km Optimal/5km Falloff - 33 DPS 425mm Autocannon II - Barrage M - 3km Optimal/15km Falloff - 30 DPS Heavy Neutron Blaster II - Null L - 5.6km Optimal/7.8km Falloff - 39 DPS Scorch's supreme range advantage seems to be a carryover of the days when lasers had to deal with higher base armor EM resists, however when CCP nerfed EM resists significantly, they didn't rebalance some of the minor discrepancies such as Scorch. Additionally, a few Amarr ships have very synergistic bonuses that make Scorch incredibly powerful (extra range), since travel time to get within range is practically non-existant for Amarr ships. The Scorch problem is the range increase it has over ANMF compared to the range increase Barrage has over EMP and Null has over CNAM. Let's look at numbers, shall we: HPL II (AN MF): 7.5km + 5km (12.5km total) 425MM II (RF EMP): 1.5km + 10km (11.5km total) Heavy Neutron Blaster II (CN AM): 2.3km+6.3km (8.6km total) Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (CN Terror): 20.3km HPL II (Scorch): 23km + 5km (28km total) => 124% range increase 425MM II (Barrage): 3km+15km (18km total) => 56% range increase Heavy Neutron Blaster II (Null): 5.6km+7.8km (13.4km total) => 55,8% range increase Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Terror Javelin): 30.4km total => 49.8% range increase So obviously both ACs, blasters and HAMs (3 short range weapon systems) have a long range ammo option which provides them with a roughly 50% boost over short range high damage ammo. Lasers get a munition which gives a 124% range boost over short range high damage ammo. THAT is the broken part of Scorch. Lasers being the longest ranged isn't the problem; they do that with ANMF with very good DPS to boot. The part where you on top of the longest ranged turret, stick a ammo which gives the largest percentual range increase over other turrets and their short range ammos is the problematic part. Pretty simple that Blasters need something...You cant tell me that a ammo that only is 14% less but 50%-150% better range than large blasters also needs insta ammo swapping and not cut down reloads for other races who need it. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
3cxO Caldari Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.02.24 02:33:00 - [27] Wow, is it that time of the month again? I guess 15d have been up since the last.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Omara Otawan ... Eft warriors? Nah, i do amarr fw and shield canes are bread and butter here and i know perfectly what they are capable of. And what you are saying its total bull**. You are taking that numbers out of , not from reality. I also completely believe you that you are turning off td when you are in the orbit /you must feel so safe.../. Credibility of your post is 0. Originally by:** Kail Storm ... Ofc these ships need help. Megas must be good for rrbs gangs and also for gate ganks or solo where amarr shipss lack utility. God save us if ppl used right tool for the job. You are basically saying, that blasters should have more damage, better tracking, only slighly less range and now even instant ammo swapping without drawbacks that amarr ships have - low speed, low utility, few mids, big fitting requirements, high cap usage, low tracking etc. And taking acs into that post and comparing them with evil 'broken' scorch shows how clueless you are. Acs are TOP weapon system now with capless use, selectable damage typ, perfect tracking and easy fitting /not saying that you can easy fit utility mods on minnie ships /. But maybe you are not clueless and you are only hiding facts that are not good for your blaster whine : fitting of lasers, cap usage and tracking /+ disadvantages built in amarr laserboats/ - because with all these things amarr ships pay for optimal of lasers.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2010.02.24 09:55:00 - [29] Edited by: Kail Storm on 24/02/2010 10:00:12 Wow Lugal you are being dense....I have said 3 times now I have never wanted tracking bonuses for Gal ships at all, I have also said 3 times I only want faster reloads hence the title of my thread....you are stuck on this theory that I wanna make blaster ships WTF PWN when all I want to do is level it out...IMO you sound more like you dont want any changes at all to blaster ships, which doesnt hold water to me something needs to be done even if its a mild tweak. Also I said that these numbers I was quoting from a old Thread to Compare and show you Blasters VS LAsers and scorch....You bring ACS into it to confuse and muddy the issue...Please next time you respond read what I write...Or awnser the peeps who actually did want tracking DMG and other things without downsides...I just want reload times for the 4th time. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.02.24 10:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Blasters already outdps every other weapon systems at their optimal and thats what they should do. Nothing more, nothing less. And i dont believe in 'relative tracking' bull**, because it all leads to blasterboats being able to wtfpwn ships one class smaller like with 90% web. You may wish to look into the significance of sig radius and resolution. Protip: the minimum tracking that would be required for a blasterboat to always hit a ship of the same size class in a tight, fast orbit is way, way** less than that which would be required to hit a ship one size class down for any meaningful amount of damage.



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