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On the pragmatism of separatism

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Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.26 04:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Saxon Hawke This is true of all members of the Federation, but other systems also enjoy the protection of Federation Naval vessels paid for with tax money levied from all citizens. If Intaki tax money went to the Intaki Assembly, the assembly would be able to better provide for the system's security. In essence, the current system asks the people of Intaki to pay for their defense twice while receiving service only once. No! You're a complete idiot! You clearly have absolutely no conception of what's going on. Currently, no Federal entity is even contracted to supply the system's security - it's been licensed to the Mordu's Legion! This is an example of the legislative and executive decision-making power that you often claim Intaki does not have. The Assembly is responsible for licensing both the provider and the amount of security they receive. Currently, security is licensed to a non-Federal corporation, so security for the system is not, at present, the Federation's responsibility, given that the Intaki Assembly has made such a decision. The Intaki system is currently patrolled, not by the Federation Navy, but by the Mordus, and if you do not approve of the security service currently being provided, you must convince the Assembly to take it up with them. As for the tax issue, this is the same as every single other member of the Federation. Intaki is not special in this regard. A citizen pays taxes to both local and Federal governments. In terms of Federal taxes, they maintain the Navy, while the local taxes allow it to contract for defence. Intaki, as one of the most prosperous systems in the Federation, both pays a lot of Federal tax and receives a lot of local tax, and so the Assembly has a lot of money to work with. I am without a doubt that the Assembly can afford a better level of security for the system. The reason why, to this day, they have not, is a matter you must discuss with the Intaki Assembly. Perhaps the large-scale disruption caused by the Caldari invasion may inspire them to licence a higher quality of security, either from the Mordus, or, if that falls through, from the Federal Navy. Other, less prosperous systems in high security space are able to do it. As I have said to other people, you cannot have your cake and eat it. Either the Intaki Assembly is powerless and the greedy power-hoarding Federation is shirking their responsibility for the system's defence or the Intaki Assembly is not powerless and is, for better or for worse, making decisions about how the system should be defended. Intaki is special as a Federal system only in that it contains the Intaki homeworld and thus the capitol of a founding member. Currently it is in the rather odd and somewhat awkward position of having licensed its shipping and security concerns to non-Federal members but this is exactly the sort of power you want the Assembly to have. If and when the Intaki Assembly changes its contract (the current one is apparently valid for just shy of ten years, so unless they break it, it'll be around for a while), this situation may change. -----
Hussain Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:05:00 - [32] I have just a simple question to the ILF leadership: Does ILF support the Intaki Assembly as the legal government for the people of Intaki ?
Lief Siddhe Siddhean Inc. Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... It is my belief that the Assembly should govern the Intaki, but it will need a transitional period to do this. I would suggest a slow transfer of sovereignty from the Federation back to the Assembly. ... Comprehensive reading goes a long way, doesn't it? _____ I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold...
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:47:00 - [34] Lief - the issue is muddied because the situation described by Hawke is actually, within most reasonable definitions, actually the case. The Intaki Assembly does govern the Intaki system. Given this, most people are understandably confused as to what exactly it is that Saxon wants. -----
AncientGuardian Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Hussain I have just a simple question to the ILF leadership: Does ILF support the Intaki Assembly as the legal government for the people of Intaki ? Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... It is my belief that the Assembly should govern the Intaki... Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... We would prefer to see the Intaki people be given sovereignty of their space and be left to conduct their own affairs. Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... We simply think the Intaki of the Placid Region would be better served with a direct government of their own I hate to pick apart my CEO's Posts, but your questions were answered in this very thread. Quote: 'Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts' Quote: If I ever saw an amputee getting hanged, I would start yelling out letters.
AncientGuardian Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Andreus LeHane Lief - the issue is muddied because the situation described by Hawke is actually, within most reasonable definitions, actually the case. The Intaki Assembly does govern the Intaki system. Given this, most people are understandably confused as to what exactly it is that Saxon wants. Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... we do not speak for the entirety of the Intaki population. No one does. We represent a portion of that population and attempt everyday to enlighten more on our position. Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... All things considered, the ILF represents that portion of the Placid Intaki population that feels any benefit in continued membership in the Federation has run its course. We would prefer to see the Intaki people be given sovereignty of their space and be left to conduct their own affairs. On the founding and joining of the Federation: Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... The conditions that existed when the agreement was made more than 200 years ago are no longer valid, and Intaki who were not even born then pay the price for it. . As part of the Federation the Intaki Assembly has ceded its sovereignty to the Gallente Federal government. ThatÆs how federations work. The Assembly maintains some autonomy, but that is a very different thing all together. Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... being a member of the Federation subjects the Intaki-populated colonies to Federal taxation. This taxation weakens the ability of the Intaki Assembly to provide for its people Originally by: Saxon Hawke ... Neither the IPI nor the ILF wish to rule the Intaki Again, I hate to pick at my CEO's statements, but in this very thread.... I do not mean to sound negative in any form or fasion, It is just a personal pet peve of mine to (re)state answers to questions that were answered previously. I (personaly) try to avoid the Summit, because I tend to get 'hot headed', So I appologize in advance for that. Quote: 'Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts' Quote: If I ever saw an amputee getting hanged, I would start yelling out letters.
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.26 15:06:00 - [37] Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 26/02/2010 15:07:03 Originally by: Saxon Hawke We represent a portion of that population and attempt everyday to enlighten more on our position. A view almost as elitist as any caricature of the Federal culture imperialist. Your view, despite being inconsistent, confusing and in some cases just plain wrong is "enlightenment"? Say what you wish of freedom of thought, your phrasing betrays your opinion of dissent. Originally by: Saxon Hawke being a member of the Federation subjects the Intaki-populated colonies to Federal taxation. This taxation weakens the ability of the Intaki Assembly to provide for its people Complete ******s. All* colonies in the Federation are subject to Federal taxation, and as has been repeatedly established Intaki is, economically-speaking, rolling in it. There are literally hundreds of less successful Federal colonies - in hi-sec, no less - that are still perfectly able to "provide for their people". This argument is either made from a position of ignorance or intentionally misleading. -----
Lief Siddhe Siddhean Inc. Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.26 15:48:00 - [38] We're all going into too many details that we don't really know for sure, cause none of us is a member of the Senate or the Assembly. It all comes down to the fact that the current situation of Intaki has a LOT of space for improvement. Time will show what course of action will be taken by the Placid population, in the meanwhile we can only try to stabilize and improve the quality of life for Placid people, any way we can. _____ I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold...
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.26 18:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Lief Siddhe We're all going into too many details that we don't really know for sure Most certainly! However, the other members of your alliance seem convinced that this is not, indeed, the case, and that they have all the necessary facts. -----
Lief Siddhe Siddhean Inc. Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.26 18:10:00 - [40] NOBODY in this thread has all the necessary facts. _____ I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold...

Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.26 18:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Lief Siddhe NOBODY in this thread has all the necessary facts. Will you tell them that, or shall I? -----
Termina Pax Gallente INTR0N	Posted - 2010.02.28 11:48:00 - [42] Edited by: Termina Pax on 28/02/2010 11:50:55 Edited by: Termina Pax on 28/02/2010 11:50:14 I read yer little cry fer help and all I gotta say is grow a pair and quit yer ***in and moanin. Everybody take notice the Fed Cadre member oppressing the hell out of our poor soppin Intaki straw man gives this joker like 5 times to get his act straight; the caldar I know just shoot yer spinal column full of microwave till its sweetmeat, without even a wink or a nod, much less the whole debate on the rights of man. That* is the Difference. The Amarr are worse - they'll bore you to death. LOOK GOOD GET PAID HUSTLE WITH INTR0N
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.02.28 12:14:00 - [43] I'm sorry, miss, call me an idiot (and you most likely will), but I can't tell which side you were criticising - if it was only one side that you were criticising. -----
Atormeleon Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.02.28 19:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Andreus LeHane Currently, no Federal entity is even contracted to supply the system's security - it's been licensed to the Mordu's Legion! This is an example of the legislative and executive decision-making power that you often claim Intaki does not have. The Assembly is responsible for licensing both the provider and the amount of security they receive. Currently, security is licensed to a non-Federal corporation, so security for the system is not, at present, the Federation's responsibility, given that the Intaki Assembly has made such a decision. The Intaki system is currently patrolled, not by the Federation Navy, but by the Mordus, and if you do not approve of the security service currently being provided, you must convince the Assembly to take it up with them. Why do you think the Intaki Assembly would have made a defense deal with the Mordus? I personally haven't seen any indications that this was the case and it's hard to believe they wouldn't reveal such agreements to the public. Perhaps your intention is to refer to "Ishukone", a Caldari company which indeed has hired escorts from the Legion.
Mammal Tafren Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.03.02 22:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 26/02/2010 15:07:03 Originally by: Saxon Hawke We represent a portion of that population and attempt everyday to enlighten more on our position. A view almost as elitist as any caricature of the Federal culture imperialist. Your view, despite being inconsistent, confusing and in some cases just plain wrong is "enlightenment"? Say what you wish of freedom of thought, your phrasing betrays your opinion of dissent. Actually, that's just how democracy works. One side, or another, or another is convinced that they, and not the others, knows the correct way forward. They then try to convince the majority that their ideas, and not the ideas of any others, are in the interests of the majority. That is all the ILF are trying to do in a diplomatic sense - to convince the Intaki Assembly and the Intaki people that their interests will be better served through independence rather than continued membership of the federation. It's not elitist to say that the majority are wrong. It has happened countless times in history, and it has often been the purview of indiviuals and small interest groups to convince them of that.
John Tanashima Caldari ICS-762 Drunken Butterflies	Posted - 2010.03.03 07:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Atormeleon Why do you think the Intaki Assembly would have made a defense deal with the Mordus? Maybe because the Legion does have the highest percentage of Intaki officers of any force in the cluster, maybe because it was formed from the majority of the Intaki Navy command structure in exile when the choice was exile or forced integration in the Federal Navy. Anyways, I can assure you that a deal was made, will it stick under Federal law ? That is still to be determined, but the assembly approved the Mordu presence, in fact I know for sure that the Admiral would not accept any power projection in Intaki if it was not for the good of the Intaki, whoever pays for the protection contract.


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