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Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:25:00 -
[1]
Something I have to deal with when running anomalies, FW missions or when Safed spotted while PVPing in lowsec is the constant need to scan for probes and ships.
You know, scanner open with overview options unchecked, looking for sisters or combat/core probes so you can keep moving. This is the only effective way to find out if you are being scanned as the prober can be cloaked or out of range. You will always at least get 5 seconds warning to get moving. So you spam the scan button and get your hand hurting, but it pays off, I haven't been caught yet (Knock x3 on wood).
The problem is, when you are in a busy system, or a system cluttered with POSes or npc wrecks like Old Man Star, is that when you hit a scan, you get hundreds of returns (PS modules, wrecks, etc) and you have to scroll around to look for the "sisters" or "combat/core" tags, and this is annoying and time consuming.
My noob question is this: Is there a way to setup an overview tab exclusively for probes so you have a clean and clear reading? I looked for the entities on the overview menu and couldn't find probes. Anyone have any experience with this?
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:28:00 -
[2]
You can't do it. You're better off assuming you are always being probed and just make sure you are aligned out in case.
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:38:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
You can't do it.
Seconding this. There's no way to narrow down the scanner result without checking "use active overview settings" and the overview can't show probes at all. It's really annoying.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:55:00 -
[4]
it's effort, and as long as you sort on name (scanner probe) you're fine. If you don't like the effort to the defend yourself either don't be in low sec or get killed. Sounds harsh but things taking effort is a GOOD thing, non-effort gameplay is bad.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Want to learn combat/PVP?
Alliance creation service |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marko Riva
non-effort gameplay is bad.
Button spam is worse
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marko Riva
it's effort, and as long as you sort on name (scanner probe) you're fine. If you don't like the effort to the defend yourself either don't be in low sec or get killed. Sounds harsh but things taking effort is a GOOD thing, non-effort gameplay is bad.
Yeah well I think it's a bit unbalanced. To effectively defend yourself against probing you have to d-scan every 5 seconds, considering that it is possible for a prober to scan you to 100% with a single scan using certain tactics. So when d-scanning every 5 seconds and on top of that having to visually filter the result for probes where one kind of probes is on top of the list and the other on the bottom, you're more busy doing this than anything else.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 14:09:00 -
[7]
Which part of "filter for name, search for Scan Probes" did you miss :)
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Want to learn combat/PVP?
Alliance creation service |
Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 14:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Which part of "filter for name, search for Scan Probes" did you miss :)
erm.. no offence Marko, but I think you missed something !?
I guess you mean "sort on name" instead of "filter for name" ? Because that's what you said in your first post and AFAIK there is no possibility to actually filter for scan probes (so that either nothing would be shown as a result or just scan probes) which is the point of my post above.
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Emily Jean
Minmatar
The Mongols
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Posted - 2010.03.02 14:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Emily Jean on 02/03/2010 14:59:37
Edited by: Emily Jean on 02/03/2010 14:59:25
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva
Originally by: Marko Riva
Which part of "filter for name, search for Scan Probes" did you miss :)
erm.. no offence Marko, but I think you missed something !?
I guess you mean "sort on name" instead of "filter for name" ? Because that's what you said in your first post and AFAIK there is no possibility to actually filter for scan probes (so that either nothing would be shown as a result or just scan probes) which is the point of my post above.
When your using the system scanner... Filter/Sort, whats the difference.
YOU MUST UNCHECK THE BOX TO SEE PROBES
If you are too lazy for that then.... Boom, your the next victim. Get outa low sec and mission in high sec where its safe and secure wrapped in your mammas arms.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:09:00 -
[10]
Yeah I meant sort. If you do that and lenghten the scanner window by a lot you should get probes on the first "page", unless you're fighting Serpentis heh.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Want to learn combat/PVP?
Alliance creation service |
Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:18:00 -
[11]
@Marko: yeah I already do this. but especially when running a combat site your own wrecks clutter up the scanner result list so much that you have to scroll a lot.
@Emily: thank you for your polite response, but unfortunately you completely missed the point since we're talking about directional scanner here.
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Emily Jean
Minmatar
The Mongols
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:37:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Emily Jean on 02/03/2010 15:41:42
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva
Edited by: Ernesto DaSilva on 02/03/2010 15:26:50
@Marko: (edit) somehow i had the idea that different scanner probes would show up with different names. dunno why. so, your point :)
@Emily: thank you for your polite response, but unfortunately you completely missed the point since we're talking about directional scanner here.
Yes we are..............
See that box in his pic? Its up top, to the left side. Now reread my post above. You said it yourself.
If you want to know if they are scanning YOU, then lower the number in the box just below the check. It will need to be below 1AU (do the conversion yourself) to find you.
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Emily Jean
Yes we are..............
See that box in his pic? Its up top, to the left side. Now reread my post above. You said it yourself.
If you want to know if they are scanning YOU, then lower the number in the box just below the check. It will need to be below 1AU (do the conversion yourself) to find you.
I know that this box has to be unchecked (see my first post here). And I know that I can narrow the range but when always scanning in 1AU range I'll detect those probers who don't use the first-dscan-then-one-1au-probescan strategy later than I could otherwise. And when changing scan range repeatedly we're back to my point that it's more effort to detect someone probing you than for him to probe you.
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Emily Jean
Minmatar
The Mongols
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva
Originally by: Emily Jean
Yes we are..............
See that box in his pic? Its up top, to the left side. Now reread my post above. You said it yourself.
If you want to know if they are scanning YOU, then lower the number in the box just below the check. It will need to be below 1AU (do the conversion yourself) to find you.
I know that this box has to be unchecked (see my first post here). And I know that I can narrow the range but when always scanning in 1AU range I'll detect those probers who don't use the first-dscan-then-one-1au-probescan strategy later than I could otherwise. And when changing scan range repeatedly we're back to my point that it's more effort to detect someone probing you than for him to probe you.
Guess we are coming full circle multiple times. If there is no effort there is no reward. Mothers arms and all that.
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 15:56:00 -
[15]
I'm not saying there should be no effort.
I'm saying that the amount of effort required is questionable.
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sukmanobov
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.02 16:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marko Riva
it's effort, and as long as you sort on name (scanner probe) you're fine. If you don't like the effort to the defend yourself either don't be in low sec or get killed. Sounds harsh but things taking effort is a GOOD thing, non-effort gameplay is bad.
errrr all this thread is waste, just have 5/6 safe pionts and warp between them.
To get safe spot relatively safely in low to null sec. warp to a moon and about turn "asap" to the next planet/moon so on making BM's during warp (most people wont have time to react if they just happen to be at a moon but the chance of that is fairly low, or POS doesn't have the time to target you).  tada safe spots.
if your going AFK then GTFO of amamake, egg, eifer, OMS.
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.03.02 16:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: sukmanobov
[errrr all this thread is waste, just have 5/6 safe pionts and warp between them.
this thread is about running an exploration site while trying to detect when being probed out. as you might have noticed, you can't run an exploration site while warping between safe spots, so this is no solution either.
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sukmanobov
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.02 16:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ernesto DaSilva
Originally by: sukmanobov
[errrr all this thread is waste, just have 5/6 safe pionts and warp between them.
this thread is about running an exploration site while trying to detect when being probed out. as you might have noticed, you can't run an exploration site while warping between safe spots, so this is no solution either.
Yep im a titheed. i scanned your post and missed the mission bit 
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.02 22:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Neo Gabriel on 02/03/2010 22:47:43
Thank you for the responses guys.
The missions I run in lowsec are magnitudes more profitable than even LVL5s, so they are worth it, trust me. The problem with them is that they leave beacons for everyone to see, so there is no need to use scan probes, but you still have to scan for ships incoming and use a few tricks to detect recons when they try to come into your missions.
But even here, you can use your overview so you don't have to filter through hundreds of POS modules (Scram battery, Shadow serpentis tower, etc) to see the "Sisters core/combat" probes or "COre/combat" probes because no one will be using probes and you are just looking for ships.
Moreover I would never run a mission like this in a system like OMS or Tama.
The problem happens when you are specifically running an anomaly like a DED plex or a radar/magnetometric site. Every time someone comes into local you gotta start spamming the d-scan for probes. There are ways to get 100% scan on the first run, so you only have a 5 second window at worse to detect the probes and get ready to leave.
By using your d-scan to establish direction and range before you drop probes, you can set up the probe formation outside of their d-scan range, move yourself to a nearby celestial, move the formation on top of them, scan, get the 100%. warp to 10/20km, IMMEDIATELLY move the probes far far away in system. You will get a perfect warp in on them and when your buddies land for the point, they never had a chance. I have done this many times, so I know how it works.
When you are pvping, its not so much of a deal because you can keep moving between moons and safes and they will never get you scanned in time, and even if they did, by the time they warp there I am long gone.
When you are running a site however, sometimes it takes some 30minutes or more while you plow through the npc hordes, and you are there, in a ship not optimized for combat and your friends may be a couple jumps out. You have to keep spamming d-scan continuously to detect the probes, but not only that, you have to "filter" through all the wrecks, all the POS modules and every single thing that shows up when you have the overview thing unchecked. Even when you sort it by names in reverse order, there are still at least a few pages of trash to get where the "sisters" or "core/combat" names would be.
When you are scanning for someones ship, you don't have to deal with this either on d-scan or during the probing part. Imagine the tears if you couldn't use your overview settings to use d-scan when looking for ships. "Waaaa Waaaa CCP you love carebears, it's so hard to scan for their ships, blah blah blah."
Maybe it would be fair enough if you could have your overview tab set only for Probes. I bet carebears would die a lot less, even if you have to get Car-pol tunnel to defend yourself, spamming the scanner, which I think its absolutely a stupid mechanic... If it could auto refresh every 10seconds, people's hands wouldn't get to hurt so much.
But it's OK, I asked here to make sure there wasn't a way to make my life easier. I understand CCP may never implement such an easy and straight forward system. I also fully understand the risks of lowsec: I am there every day, and I see people getting ganked there all the time. If I get caught in a gate its my fault. I just wish I didn't have to deal with this half as$ed d-scan mechanic.
EDIT: If you don't sort by type, you may not see "Scan probe" by name. I have seen probes that had their names in russian. I am not exactly sure about how to do that.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2010.03.02 23:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Sounds harsh but things taking effort is a GOOD thing, non-effort gameplay is bad.
Button mashing is not effort, it is tedium. Pilots should be able to scan for probes. The only reason not to allow it, is because when the they're up against the wall, CCP will opt for tedium in place of effort or finesse every time. Must be some Icelandic cultural thing.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.03.03 02:39:00 -
[21]
Make better safe spots.
If you plan on running missions in a system often. Spend a bit of time and make a few..."Good" safe spots.
The piddly little "in between moons" safe spots are....not good.
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Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
Darn Near Respectable
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Posted - 2010.03.03 18:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shinjo Bajahnhosuu on 03/03/2010 18:52:40
Edited by: Shinjo Bajahnhosuu on 03/03/2010 18:50:38
Here's a tip that can save you some carpal tunnel grief. When monitoring the system for probes via the dscan, keep an eye on the vertical scroll bar. If a few probes show up all of a sudden from one scan to the next, then the size of the scroll "button" will most likely visibly change. This can be a visual clue that you should scroll below to see if there are now probes on scan. If the scroll button doesn't change size then you're probably ok.
Of course this probably doesn't work in a really busy system like OMS, where lots of ships are cycling on and off scan all the time. But in a fairly quiet system with just a few in local I find this to be effective. Not foolproof obviously, but certainly helpful.
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Dusica
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Posted - 2010.03.03 19:32:00 -
[23]
UNCHECK use overview settings.
Scan again ... search under S ( for sister combat scaner probe ) and under C for combat scanner probe.
Done.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.03 20:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dusica
UNCHECK use overview settings.
Scan again ... search under S ( for sister combat scaner probe ) and under C for combat scanner probe.
Done.
Reading sure is hard, isn't it?
- Intigo
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.04 08:11:00 -
[25]
Shinjo, thank you for the tip.
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