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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Commander Godsmack on 04/03/2010 00:44:09 Eve is interesting largely as you learn new things as you go. Even at near 2 years playing some1 can still find new stuff
With that I find troll scams have no limit. I had got myself some materials for production about 60k worth in cargo; now I could transport this myself to my manufacturing station just 3 jumps over - I only need to spend about an hour doing so in my Indy. Ok then, (instead I know) I'm building some good stuff I can just put up a courier contract and a freighter pilot should take it up and have the job done in 5-15 minutes (once accepted). *Now I did make collateral higher than the goods just in case some1 does something stupid So technically I will be reimbursed for my cargo however cargo has a purpose when u pay some1 to move it - make money with the materials(usually?) and in my case I cannot get back lost time(or is it common practice to factor this into the collateral?)
So the job is just for 3 jumps (and all through high sec)
So what was it I learned? - When my courier contract was accepted and when its was not delivered within 15 minutes (only 3 jumps); even more when the "freighter pilot" was not online afterwords ; something i had not thought of - People will troll to accept courier contracts and then not deliver the goods despite what it is going to cost them on collateral
This is my first real courier contract and so idk if this happens much but this is some bs I do not want to be stuck for again and the way the system is there would be nothing stopping this f*ck from doing it again if I have another job Now with this experience I have a few things going around in my head about preventing this sort of bull**** even if it may be somewhat useless with the ease of creating new alts ect. -->
#1 Why isn't there some sort of block list built in with contracts, like a sort of burn list if u will where ppl can be added and once on that list they would not be allowed to accept your courier contracts (either u add specially urself or import a list of known trolls to prevent from holding up your productions?)
This could prevent actual ppl with freighters to think twice before trolling a courrier job.
#2 and now this is the BS i get to deal with right now atm with my 60k m^3 contract
Esp. for freight jobs why is there no check system to prevent 1 month old ****s from accepting a job they cant possibly complete as they cant even fly freighter (even an indy might be questionable). Something like a Skillpiont check for if u have the right skills to pilot a freighetr or u need to be in ship to accept (idk but some buffer needs to be here CCP) Would also help people who need smaller deliveries if there is some system check to prevent trolling on smaller jobs (being these would be easier to make an alt for)
This would basically cover the grounds/augment were #1 falls short being so some day old toon or even month old brat cant screw u for time. Also it would entirely (or at least should) keep people from just using an alt on their account with no sp to just take the contract and not deliver or keep them from using other accounts to troll your courier jobs. (Now in my case i guess this would not stop some people but already makes their fapping fetish excruciating for time and effort to pull of their trolling.)
#3
Last anti-troll system check - Add option of a second collateral that gets set which the person making the courier contract job cant benefit from but instead gets paid to an npc if it is failed?
Above (#3 just) just a thought ; maybe good or not so good - idk would just make would-be-trollers- pay all the more for their stupidity and maybe allow the person making contract to leverage importance of their job but not be sticking their neck out as much to be called a scammer?
---------------------------------- Now with that said I would need a list of some reputable freighting corps/ individuals that get the job done and get to it once they take the contract.
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Mara Tessidar on 04/03/2010 00:57:09 The anti-troll device already in existence is called collateral.
Edit: And you made money off said collateral. If you didn't, well, that's your fault.
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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.03.04 01:04:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar Edited by: Mara Tessidar on 04/03/2010 00:57:09 The anti-troll device already in existence is called collateral.
Edit: And you made money off said collateral. If you didn't, well, that's your fault.
So would u telling me basically (though the collateral I set will re-imburse me for the materials)that next time, factor in time loss if they fail/ troll it?
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2010.03.04 01:05:00 -
[4]
That's what collateral is for.
Just remember: any minerals you mine yourself are free.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.03.04 01:25:00 -
[5]
You can't know for sure what happened - maybe his power went out, maybe his computer reset, maybe his house went up in flames, maybe he got suicide-ganked, maybe he forgot to pick up the package and moved to the destination on autopilot without it and said "fudge it, I'll move it later when I come back in". If he fails to complete the job in the alloted time, you will get the collateral. Next time, set the collateral high enough to compensate you for everything, including potentially lost time.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Salmeria
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.03.04 02:45:00 -
[6]
When you have a lot of isk, sometimes it is fun to pick up courier contracts and fail them, just to see what free stuff you get!
Its like gambling, only more stupid!
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.04 03:13:00 -
[7]
Another thing is that with some routes, say dodixie to jita, if there isn't enough for a freighter load, people will accept them then wait to see if any more contracts come in going that way. At a minimum they have 24 hours to complete the contract and some people will wait to take every m3 possible from point A to point B and anything along the way as empty cargo space means no profit.
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Eva Noir
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.04 03:16:00 -
[8]
btw u can train a fresh char to freighter in less than 8 weeks so using some character age based calculation for ur "burn list" would (as those things usually do) rule out quite a few potential freighter pilots/alts.
if ur afraid of being ripped off either get a freighter alt (and live with the sui-gank-risk urself) or work with a known freighter corp that has decent reputation
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.04 03:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Eva Noir btw u can train a fresh char to freighter in less than 8 weeks
8 weeks huh..
Create new character, remap to 15 per, rest in willpower. Train cyber 1, plug in +3 implants, follow skill plan in evemon for learning skills to train.
Without the 100% bonus to speed you can be in a freighter from a brand new character in less than 30 days. Factor in the 100% to 1.6 mil sps and it's much less than that.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.03.04 04:06:00 -
[10]
60k m3 is not worth undocking a freighter to carry, unless it has an unusually large reward.
The time to start worrying about what's happened to your cargo is not 15 minutes after the contract was accepted, it's 15 minutes before the contract is due to expire.
If you had a ship that was capable of carrying 700k m3, would you undock to haul a 60k m3 load? Regardless of how valuable the reward is, you can squeeze ten times that load into the freighter's belly - so why not wait and see if you get ten more offers like that one?
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
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Carine Parnasse
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Posted - 2010.03.04 04:50:00 -
[11]
Ahhh i love these boards. Just once, I'd like to open a thread with troll in the title that is about trolls. Also, the terms of the contract are that they will get the allocated goods to the stated destination within the given time period. If that time isn't over they arent doing anything wrong, they have no obligation to hurry just to please you.
Little tip, if you are going to be using courier contracts to get your mins to your manufacturing base, make sure you have enough of a stockpile to keep your lines running longer then 24 hours at a time. Then even if some 'troll' has the audacity to take longer then 15 minutes you won't have to suffer this awful upset again.
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Llu
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Posted - 2010.03.04 07:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mara Rinn 60k m3 is not worth undocking a freighter to carry, unless it has an unusually large reward.
If you had a ship that was capable of carrying 700k m3, would you undock to haul a 60k m3 load? Regardless of how valuable the reward is, you can squeeze ten times that load into the freighter's belly - so why not wait and see if you get ten more offers like that one?
This really, either you need to have a nice big reward to motivate the freight pilot to move his 20s+ per alignment to go there directly or break down the packages to 30k or less so someone can run it in a indy.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.04 09:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T You can't know for sure what happened - maybe his power went out, maybe his computer reset, maybe his house went up in flames, maybe he got suicide-ganked, maybe he forgot to pick up the package and moved to the destination on autopilot without it and said "fudge it, I'll move it later when I come back in". If he fails to complete the job in the alloted time, you will get the collateral. Next time, set the collateral high enough to compensate you for everything, including potentially lost time.
troll sympathizers ftl
-------------------------------------------------- We lost around 1.5b worth of tower, fuel and modules total. (Pause for amusement)
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.04 14:37:00 -
[14]
#1 The reverse of this exists - right click, ignore contracts from this player. Not sure if it prevents them from accepting your contracts though. Corp/Alliance contracts restrict the contracts to people you should have some level of trust with.
#2 Why?? - I should be able to accept the contract with one character and transfer it to my hauler alt. In fact I often use this to scam the scammer. They set up the contract with the express intention of ganking me and claiming the collatoral of several million for failing to move a few units of cheap modules. I distract them with the character that accepted the contract while flying the goods with an alt and collect their reward, thus anti-scamming them out of their ISK.
#3 Not keen on that either, People don't normally just accept random contracts to lose the collatoral, hoping the goods are worth more. That's a bit of a losing proposition. ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:25:00 -
[15]
You could avoid a lot of hassle by hiring Red Frog Freight. We've got 20+ active pilots; we're professional and our prices are cheap. We work with some of the largest manufacturers, traders, and miners in EVE. We also regularly work with many of the largest alliances in EVE.
That said, you shouldn't expect that people will pick up your package and deliver it in 15 minutes. There are other concerns, some of which have been listed before (e.g., power went out). Many pilots will attempt to maximize the cargo load or reduce the overall number of jumps on their list of courier runs. Why go directly to Jita if you have 2 other packages nearby going to Jita as well? Part of using courier contracts is accepting a certain amount of uncertainty about exact delivery times. That's why the set minimum is 24hrs. If you plan with that in mind, you'll avoid a lot of heartache (and lost ISK). |
Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.03.04 20:52:00 -
[16]
OP implied that he placed collateral at a little higher than the goods, then implied that this was a bad idea because he was going to make more than that at the destination by selling the goods.
You've really solved your own problem here. Next time, set collateral at what goods are worth to you, not what you bought them for. That way, if someone steal them, you basically just insta-sold your goods at the margin you wanted (because you set collateral for what you would've sold them at) instead of just your money back. You can't really lose there. If this is what you did in the first place, there is really nothing to complain about.
Freighter guy probably saw he could sell the goods for more than the collateral, yoinked 'em, and hocked 'em.
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Drykor
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame OP implied that he placed collateral at a little higher than the goods, then implied that this was a bad idea because he was going to make more than that at the destination by selling the goods.
You've really solved your own problem here. Next time, set collateral at what goods are worth to you, not what you bought them for. That way, if someone steal them, you basically just insta-sold your goods at the margin you wanted (because you set collateral for what you would've sold them at) instead of just your money back. You can't really lose there. If this is what you did in the first place, there is really nothing to complain about.
Freighter guy probably saw he could sell the goods for more than the collateral, yoinked 'em, and hocked 'em.
Err, you can't see the content of the package you're moving, unless you break it in which case you pay the collateral.
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Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:35:00 -
[18]
OP, what you are calling a "troll" is sound practices. Accept the contract and check the contract contents, if there is a profit to be made off breaking the contract - take it. (taking into account the collateral and reward).
Expecting delivery in 15 minutes off a public courier contract is trolling, you explicitly state in the contract you are fine with the minimum delivery in 24 hours. An alternative is to next time put in the contract description, "2M Isk BONUS If you deliver w/in 15 minutes of acceptance".
Learn how to use the system before you boo hoo about it. I at a minimum set collateral at 120% (of sell usually) and scale the reward from the collateral. If my courier is 1 second late and I can fail it - I will and make a nice profit.
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Wieting Foyu
Gallente Foyu Trading World
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:39:00 -
[19]
I really don't see what the complaint is other than your contract wasn't finished in 15 minutes. With 70k worth of stuff it was beneficial to wait for other couriers that could be going that direction. Minimum to complete a courier is 24h so the courier has 23h to fill his remaining 730k of space for one big haul. If you wanted it there faster you should have taken it yourself. That small amount is two trips in a rigged iteron 5. As well some relist couriers just to make easy isk. Accepts your courier and relists with 10% more collateral and 10% less reward. So either way he will make more by someone else doing all the labor.
There is no need to change how couriers are done. If your stuff gets stolen or blown up or forgotten you get your collateral and payment back. If you have a collateral lower than its total worth to you, that's your own fault.
As for the above, yes you can "peak" into a container and not lose the collateral.
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.03.04 23:15:00 -
[20]
besides 60k m3 for 3 jumps - takes a lot less than an hour even in an T1 indy. (it's just 3 trips for most T1's if you've got indy 5 and the large hauler of each race - 2 trips if your gallente.
For single trip this fits conveniently in an Orca.
As for the collateral - well if you don't set it correctly you only have yourself to blame.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.05 13:59:00 -
[21]
Just set the collateral high enough so that morons who do this either take a nice isk hit or simply won't touch it. Tbh it's hi sec and if they are competent(the actual legit contract accepter) they will get your goods where they need to go and get paid. If they can't see that then they shouldn't be in buisness in the first place. |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.03.05 14:14:00 -
[22]
..I think that the OP and his "story" is an obvious commercial advertisement for Red Frog Investments. Common formula: Have some shlub tell his sob story about how he got ripped off by horrible freighter companies who have no customer service, and then like magic!! The hero company comes from out of no where!! CALL RED FROG INVESTMENTS FOR ALL YOUR FREIGHTER NEEDS!!!
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I think that the OP and his "story" is an
blah blah blah
You have done nothing but give a buch of useless crap whenever you post.
An example is you wanted to know about finding veldspar, but then told someone else mining sucks.
You seem to be the next up and coming troll, but you are failing badly at it.
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Oriss Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I think that the OP and his "story" is an obvious commercial advertisement for Red Frog Investments. Common formula: Have some shlub tell his sob story about how he got ripped off by horrible freighter companies who have no customer service, and then like magic!! The hero company comes from out of no where!! CALL RED FROG INVESTMENTS FOR ALL YOUR FREIGHTER NEEDS!!!
Commander Godsmack is a legit poster in several other forums. He may well be a red frog alt, but that fact alone slightly lowers the probability. Sounds more to me like a new indy alt didn't really put too much thought behind the contract and lost a little money.
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Oriss Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar Just remember: any minerals you mine yourself are free.
WRONG. Opportunity Cost, Time is Money, and TINSTAAFL would like a word with you.
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Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2010.03.05 16:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I think that the OP and his "story" is an obvious commercial advertisement for Red Frog Investments. Common formula: Have some shlub tell his sob story about how he got ripped off by horrible freighter companies who have no customer service, and then like magic!! The hero company comes from out of no where!! CALL RED FROG INVESTMENTS FOR ALL YOUR FREIGHTER NEEDS!!!
You have got to be kidding. Seriously. I don't have to put that much work into it, and we sure as hell don't need to advertise. The overwhelming majority of our jobs come from clients referring corp mates and business associates. My forum posts are pure name recognition, branding, and recruiting. We do just fine without my posts.
So fine in fact, that Red Frog Freight gets an average of 70+ courier runs a day, and generally completes them in 24 hrs or less. In February alone we completed almost 2000 contracts while under 2 different wardecs. We handle the logistics for many of the largest and oldest manufacturers, traders, and alliances. We're cheap, fast, and reliable. We provide complete discretion to our clients--never discussing who we haul for, what we haul, or even how often. We don't even discuss it inside the corp. Red Frog is serious about freighting and we provide the best service in all of EVE. Its that simple.
See what I did there? I took some shlub's post and turned it into an opportunity to both address his direct question/comment and promote Red Frog Freight and our incredible service. I don't need to seed forum posts; every post is an opportunity for promotion.
I'm not sure why you haven't joined Red Frog Freight, Syds:
- Red Frog is made up of independent pilots, we aren't required to do anything.
- Red Frog pilots receive ALL of the contract reward; Red Frog itself makes NO money. Even the CEO has to work for his ISK.
- Red Frog gets a LOT of contracts; there's always something to do.
See what I did there? I turned it into an opportunity to recruit as well. Or are you some sort of secret plant?
I certainly hope you were kidding. But if not, you're very, very wrong.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.06 01:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz I'm not sure why you haven't joined Red Frog Freight, Syds:
If you read my post you would see why. He's a useless upcoming troll.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.03.06 03:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I think that the OP and his "story" is an obvious commercial advertisement for Red Frog Investments. Common formula: Have some shlub tell his sob story about how he got ripped off by horrible freighter companies who have no customer service, and then like magic!! The hero company comes from out of no where!! CALL RED FROG INVESTMENTS FOR ALL YOUR FREIGHTER NEEDS!!!
You have got to be kidding. Seriously. I don't have to put that much work into it, and we sure as hell don't need to advertise. The overwhelming majority of our jobs come from clients referring corp mates and business associates. My forum posts are pure name recognition, branding, and recruiting. We do just fine without my posts.
So fine in fact, that Red Frog Freight gets an average of 70+ courier runs a day, and generally completes them in 24 hrs or less. In February alone we completed almost 2000 contracts while under 2 different wardecs. We handle the logistics for many of the largest and oldest manufacturers, traders, and alliances. We're cheap, fast, and reliable. We provide complete discretion to our clients--never discussing who we haul for, what we haul, or even how often. We don't even discuss it inside the corp. Red Frog is serious about freighting and we provide the best service in all of EVE. Its that simple.
See what I did there? I took some shlub's post and turned it into an opportunity to both address his direct question/comment and promote Red Frog Freight and our incredible service. I don't need to seed forum posts; every post is an opportunity for promotion.
I'm not sure why you haven't joined Red Frog Freight, Syds:
- Red Frog is made up of independent pilots, we aren't required to do anything.
- Red Frog pilots receive ALL of the contract reward; Red Frog itself makes NO money. Even the CEO has to work for his ISK.
- Red Frog gets a LOT of contracts; there's always something to do.
See what I did there? I turned it into an opportunity to recruit as well. Or are you some sort of secret plant?
I certainly hope you were kidding. But if not, you're very, very wrong.
..Wow, maybe I should lay off the forums for a bit. I don't really believe what I put in my message there. Just my lame attempt at having fun with a game I have fun with. Disregard it please. I know RF didn't use the OP as an advertisement. Just a joke.
Just to make it clear, I have used RF Freight many times and have nothing but good things to say about them. I will use them in the future even tho I now own my own freighter.
And to Breaker77, please just think of me as a troll. Do not pay attention to anything I say. Ignore all of the threads I start in the future, and replies I post in other peoples threads. I am not worthy of your attention. Go spend your time elsewhere, instead of slandering me.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.03.06 03:28:00 -
[29]
Quote:
You have done nothing but give a buch of useless crap whenever you post.
I have to disagree with that remark. It has been proven in studies by many of the forums best trolls that only slightly above 50% of my posts contain useless crap.
Quote:
An example is you wanted to know about finding veldspar
Check the date of that post and then....
Quote: but then told someone else mining sucks.
..check this post's date. And as for the useless crap comment, this one here about how mining should not be your first profession, (not that it sucks. My assumption now is that you only post incorrect slander. Don't you love how assumptions are stupid =D) is accepted by quite a few other players. I guess this post falls into the 49.998% of not useless crap.
Quote: You seem to be the next up and coming troll, but you are failing badly at it.
If I indeed was the next up and coming troll, my intentions would be to get serious players to take time out of their day to complain about me. And guess what, you have a post dedicated to me. So I guess IF I really was "the next up and coming troll" then I wouldn't be "failing badly", but achieving troll exelence!! Where's my "Best up and coming forum troll" award?
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Commander Godsmack
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Posted - 2010.03.06 12:45:00 -
[30]
Ok i have some spare time again - and seeing replies I owe this thread some justice -
Now couple things I don't think I mentioned before (wasn't sure if was needed) but anyway this was my first real courier contract I made and with that despite being trolled I did learn a lesson or two ; 1. Ppl will pay to troll you even if they dont know you, and 2. In the future to set collateral to what the cargo is worth to me (factoring variables such i.e. time, sales of finished product etc.) ; not just slightly above what I paid for. 3. Just a note - reward was 2 mill for 3 jumps
Now quick story time update - After some time I basically redid the contract(bought materials i needed again and made another contract to were i needed it to go - this time with a more appropriately adjusted collateral - if your curious check out my contract history in-game should be about first one or two that shows up{listed by date ofc}) This 1 got finished within 15 minutes as i still feel was an appropriate time frame to finish I guess another side note here is that an orca can do 60.2k cargo (wasnt sure if its regular cargo did that) Also when i made the original post it had been some time more than 15 minutes, more like couple hours after the fact but either way they just took it and when i checked to see who it was they had logged off - and when it was yesterday to see what happened lo and behold they had failed it.
Couple other notes - if you check out my history (contracts) you will see that the job was just 3 JUMPS and the reward was 2 million for 5 minutes of flying cargo; I believe its my understanding that is good pay , no? On that note just because the contract is 24 hours i don't believe that means you take your mighty good time to do a simple job that finish in 5- 10 minutes max in a ship with sufficient cargo.
Me just fly it myself? Typically there is a reason you pay some1 to haul a bunch of stuff for you "O indy 5 / orca can do it ..." = me/ does have sp for either - happen to have trained other stuff with this toon -I figure 1 jump is about 1 minute / my indy 3 would have to make 6 trips = 18 jumps total = 54 minutes plus docking/undocking - so ya its about an hour on my estimates when I could be doing something else.
RF Freight - Heard some good things about you guys (had heard of you b4 but couldn't remember name of your corp) may do business in future but atm I'm just in an experimental stage with some manufacturing and don't have anything set up yet for regular deliveries.(so atm I don't keep a materials stock just what i need at a particular moment)
o7
CG
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