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JonnyRandom
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:45:00 -
[1]
I'm looking to train into missiles and shields to fly a raven for missions that my apoc is not suited well for. With equivalent skills, would the two extra guns that the apoc have be actually better than just 6 launchers that the raven can use? Is that really an issue, or do missiles just do that much more damage anyway?
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Doccia Ellicis
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:49:00 -
[2]
Raven gets 25% ROF bonus on battleship-sized launchers at Battleship V.
This translates to 8 effective launchers (6 / (1-0.25) = 8).
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Ravenesa
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ravenesa on 09/03/2010 23:05:27 An alternative is to train Large Projectile weapons. The Apoc has a range bonus and cap bonus, not a DPS bonus so it can fit AC or Arty without a problem. For Angels missions it can easily put out over 700dps out to 4km, or for Arty is is about 600dps out to 25km optimal plus a lot of fall off depending on skills, implants, etc. At that point you can go into Minmitar BS's. It is a good skillpath and a nice change IMO.
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:18:00 -
[4]
Ravenesa, the Apoc has a "hidden" damage bonus in that it can use the Multifrequency crystal at ranges where other ships (like the Armageddon or Abaddon) have to use X-Ray or Standard crystals - thus increasing the effective damage it does.
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Ravenesa
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 23:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ravenesa on 09/03/2010 23:45:48
Originally by: Madmi CEO Ravenesa, the Apoc has a "hidden" damage bonus in that it can use the Multifrequency crystal at ranges where other ships (like the Armageddon or Abaddon) have to use X-Ray or Standard crystals - thus increasing the effective damage it does.
I am well aware that the Apoc can throw higher damage crystals out farther then an Abaddon or a Geddon, however the DPS bonuses of both ships give each one a higher damage potential because you can offest the range different with TE's or TC's while the Apoc has to put Heat Sinks to get more damage. Someone did a damage curve a while back, can't find it.
Just to run the numbers comparing a Geddon to an Apoc.. at 50km a Geddon can spit out Scorch L, about the max for a Sansha's BS. The Apoc can push it out to 60 optimal with no mods. A geddon using 4 sentry Curator II's at 50km optimal does 800+ DPS compared to an Apoc's 714.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.03.10 19:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ravenesa Edited by: Ravenesa on 09/03/2010 23:45:48
Originally by: Madmi CEO Ravenesa, the Apoc has a "hidden" damage bonus in that it can use the Multifrequency crystal at ranges where other ships (like the Armageddon or Abaddon) have to use X-Ray or Standard crystals - thus increasing the effective damage it does.
I am well aware that the Apoc can throw higher damage crystals out farther then an Abaddon or a Geddon, however the DPS bonuses of both ships give each one a higher damage potential because you can offest the range different with TE's or TC's while the Apoc has to put Heat Sinks to get more damage. Someone did a damage curve a while back, can't find it.
Just to run the numbers comparing a Geddon to an Apoc.. at 50km a Geddon can spit out Scorch L, about the max for a Sansha's BS. The Apoc can push it out to 60 optimal with no mods. A geddon using 4 sentry Curator II's at 50km optimal does 800+ DPS compared to an Apoc's 714.
If you have max skills with similar fittings, obviously the ship with the damage bonus will out damage the ship without.
However, the above point is moot as Madmi was talking about low-sp pilots with T1 guns, which is more applicable in this case, since the OP seems to be fairly new. With t1 fittings, an Apocalypse would outdamage both the Abaddon and the Armageddon provided that the target is sufficiently outside of the effective range of Multifrequency ammo, which, by the way, is the common trend, since only Angels and Mercenaries like to burn into 20km range. In addition, due to the inherent cap bonus, the Apocalpse can forgo some of the cap rechargers for tracking computers to further exploit its range.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.10 20:34:00 -
[7]
Just train up the missile skills. There is a reason the raven and ultimately the Golem are considered king of PVE.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife Discord.
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Posted - 2010.03.10 21:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Raven gets 25% ROF bonus on battleship-sized launchers at Battleship V.
This translates to 8 effective launchers (6 / (1-0.25) = 8).
what matters is dps (more specifically, applied dps).
"effective launchers" is only important when comparing ships on the back of a napkin or mentally that use the same weapon type when you don't want to bother with EFT.
Comparing effective missile launchers and laser turret launchers is apples and oranges.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.03.10 22:03:00 -
[9]
Ultimately, if you have to ask, you should probably fly the Raven.
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2010.03.10 22:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lrrp Just train up the missile skills. There is a reason the raven and ultimately the Golem are considered king of PVE.
That used to be pretty much it. However by now I wouldn't consider the Maelstrom -> Vargur way any worse.
Laserboats are really cool, if you shoot at the right rats, tho. Ability to skip reloading and reducing the ammo costs to ~0 is pretty sweet.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.10 22:50:00 -
[11]
Oh, don't get me wrong, While my 2nd acct is a missile ace, I still use a mega pulse Abaddon for drones and amarr missions and a Mael for all others.
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Veritaal
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Posted - 2010.03.11 00:11:00 -
[12]
There are lots of good reasons for an Amarr pilot to crosstrain for a Raven.
1) The Raven/CNR/Golem is widely regarded as the king of PVE ships. 2) The Raven will be perfect for the missions that are painful for an Amarr laserboat. 3) You now have shield tanking skills. 4) You now have missile skills for that stealth bomber you want to fly. - Changable damage types! No more being stuck with just EM/Therm! - No more worrying about optimal! 5) You now have the necessary skills to rock out with Sansha's faction ships if you are so inclined. (Like I am)
It was a combination of these factors that led me to crosstrain.
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