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Crux Australis
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Posted - 2004.11.29 01:33:00 -
[1]
Hello all.
Here is the question: is there a minimum amount of damage that a turret or missile hit will assign regardless of armor/shield resistances?
For instance, the Sacrilege can be tanked over 80% on all resistances (having kinetik one next to 90%), will this 80% (or 90%) of the damage effectively be absorbed?
Or is there, let's say, a 25-30% (imaginary numbers here) of the potential damage inflicted by a shot that will "bleed" through a setup that would on paper be able to absorb more (i.e. i am hit by a missile for potential 100 damage, I am tanked to absorb the 90% of it, but I am suffer anyway 25-30 damage instead of 10) ?
Thanks for your answers !
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Crux Australis
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Posted - 2004.11.29 01:33:00 -
[2]
Hello all.
Here is the question: is there a minimum amount of damage that a turret or missile hit will assign regardless of armor/shield resistances?
For instance, the Sacrilege can be tanked over 80% on all resistances (having kinetik one next to 90%), will this 80% (or 90%) of the damage effectively be absorbed?
Or is there, let's say, a 25-30% (imaginary numbers here) of the potential damage inflicted by a shot that will "bleed" through a setup that would on paper be able to absorb more (i.e. i am hit by a missile for potential 100 damage, I am tanked to absorb the 90% of it, but I am suffer anyway 25-30 damage instead of 10) ?
Thanks for your answers !
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.11.29 03:05:00 -
[3]
I am not sure of your question because I hate reading. Lets use some numbers here:
You shoot an EM cruise missile at an untanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 500 damage, due to 0% resistance
You shoot an EM cruise missile at tanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 250 dmg due to its 50% resistance.
You hit a ship with 0% shield and 50% armor EM resistance with a Paradise (EM) cruise missile. The ship has 250 shields left. The missile will do 250dmg to its shields, and the further 250 dmg will be cut in half, effectively reducing it to 125 dmg. Thus the missile will do 375 dmg total.
Dont know if that answered your question but, meh.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.11.29 03:05:00 -
[4]
I am not sure of your question because I hate reading. Lets use some numbers here:
You shoot an EM cruise missile at an untanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 500 damage, due to 0% resistance
You shoot an EM cruise missile at tanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 250 dmg due to its 50% resistance.
You hit a ship with 0% shield and 50% armor EM resistance with a Paradise (EM) cruise missile. The ship has 250 shields left. The missile will do 250dmg to its shields, and the further 250 dmg will be cut in half, effectively reducing it to 125 dmg. Thus the missile will do 375 dmg total.
Dont know if that answered your question but, meh.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 03:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Hamatitio
I am not sure of your question because I hate reading. Lets use some numbers here:
You shoot an EM cruise missile at an untanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 500 damage, due to 0% resistance
You shoot an EM cruise missile at tanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 250 dmg due to its 50% resistance.
You hit a ship with 0% shield and 50% armor EM resistance with a Paradise (EM) cruise missile. The ship has 250 shields left. The missile will do 250dmg to its shields, and the further 250 dmg will be cut in half, effectively reducing it to 125 dmg. Thus the missile will do 375 dmg total.
Dont know if that answered your question but, meh.
I have noticed that this is not true 100%, try firing a devastator cruise missile to a rifter frigate, the rifter has aprox 180 shield with a mwd, when the missile hits the shield will drop to aprox 20% and part of tha damage will leak though the shield (even if the shield is not completely down) to the armor. I have been told damage can leak from armor to structure in the same way.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Leshrac Shepherd
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 03:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hamatitio
I am not sure of your question because I hate reading. Lets use some numbers here:
You shoot an EM cruise missile at an untanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 500 damage, due to 0% resistance
You shoot an EM cruise missile at tanked shield. It does 500 dmg max, it hits and does 250 dmg due to its 50% resistance.
You hit a ship with 0% shield and 50% armor EM resistance with a Paradise (EM) cruise missile. The ship has 250 shields left. The missile will do 250dmg to its shields, and the further 250 dmg will be cut in half, effectively reducing it to 125 dmg. Thus the missile will do 375 dmg total.
Dont know if that answered your question but, meh.
I have noticed that this is not true 100%, try firing a devastator cruise missile to a rifter frigate, the rifter has aprox 180 shield with a mwd, when the missile hits the shield will drop to aprox 20% and part of tha damage will leak though the shield (even if the shield is not completely down) to the armor. I have been told damage can leak from armor to structure in the same way.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Jennae
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:04:00 -
[7]
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
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Jennae
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:04:00 -
[8]
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
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Mr Popov
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jennae
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
What did the third bane do? 
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Mr Popov
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jennae
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
What did the third bane do?
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Jennae
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mr Popov
Originally by: Jennae
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
What did the third bane do?
watched me as I hit the AB and hauled ass :)
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Jennae
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mr Popov
Originally by: Jennae
In my shield tanked Jaguar, I was hit by a bane torpedo.
It did 300 damage to me, even though my EM resistant was like 60+. The thing was, I still had 70% shields remaining, but I lost almost 50% of my armor.
Is this a regular occuring thing? or a problem that needs addressing?
BTW: the 2nd bane took me down to 10% armor, while I still had like 35% shields.
What did the third bane do?
watched me as I hit the AB and hauled ass :)
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:21:00 -
[13]
I remember, way back in the old-days of EVE. Kinetic damage, which IIRC is a bane torpedo, used to leak through shields and do armor damage. Have they brought this back in? If so...yaaarghhh
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.11.29 04:21:00 -
[14]
I remember, way back in the old-days of EVE. Kinetic damage, which IIRC is a bane torpedo, used to leak through shields and do armor damage. Have they brought this back in? If so...yaaarghhh
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.11.29 06:14:00 -
[15]
when using tech2 lasers i've often done structure damage to stuff that still have shields. Not ships, but buildings and stationary objects.
_______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2004.11.29 06:14:00 -
[16]
when using tech2 lasers i've often done structure damage to stuff that still have shields. Not ships, but buildings and stationary objects.
_______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Directive
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Posted - 2004.11.29 06:34:00 -
[17]
Damage has been leaking from shields to armor to structure as long as I've been playing (~4 months). It's just not very noticeable usually.
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Directive
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Posted - 2004.11.29 06:34:00 -
[18]
Damage has been leaking from shields to armor to structure as long as I've been playing (~4 months). It's just not very noticeable usually.
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Ankanos
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ankanos on 29/11/2004 07:30:08
Its by design..
thats why you train Tactical Shield Manipulation to use those "hardners"
Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Bonus: 5% reduced chance of damage penetrating the shield.
-there is your answer.. (and solution, to a small degree)
-ank
edit:
-now what factors dictate the amount of damage bleed-through and
wether its a die roll or a set % based on dmg amount and/or type..is open
to debate..
(tho i do like the kinetic theory, sounds like a natural)
--- |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ankanos on 29/11/2004 07:30:08
Its by design..
thats why you train Tactical Shield Manipulation to use those "hardners"
Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Bonus: 5% reduced chance of damage penetrating the shield.
-there is your answer.. (and solution, to a small degree)
-ank
edit:
-now what factors dictate the amount of damage bleed-through and
wether its a die roll or a set % based on dmg amount and/or type..is open
to debate..
(tho i do like the kinetic theory, sounds like a natural)
--- |
DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:23:00 -
[21]
Raiding complexes with tech lasers Im doing damage to both armor AND structure before the shields are down.
I run an armor tanked setup, I havnt noticed any structure damage on my ship yet... so im not sure whats going on.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:23:00 -
[22]
Raiding complexes with tech lasers Im doing damage to both armor AND structure before the shields are down.
I run an armor tanked setup, I havnt noticed any structure damage on my ship yet... so im not sure whats going on.
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Lokien
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:52:00 -
[23]
As i can recall, when shields or armor are at 25%, armour will seep through to the next level, and the hardners will lose their elffect.
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Lokien
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Posted - 2004.11.29 07:52:00 -
[24]
As i can recall, when shields or armor are at 25%, armour will seep through to the next level, and the hardners will lose their elffect.
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2004.11.29 09:42:00 -
[25]
When i was doing a deadspace mission I attacked the structures and I watched as the structure was loosing hitpoints. it started taking armor/hull damage before the shield was down. And most weird was that when the shield was down I started to do alot more hull damage and I killed it before the armor was down because it was no hull left 
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
MrRookie
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Posted - 2004.11.29 09:42:00 -
[26]
When i was doing a deadspace mission I attacked the structures and I watched as the structure was loosing hitpoints. it started taking armor/hull damage before the shield was down. And most weird was that when the shield was down I started to do alot more hull damage and I killed it before the armor was down because it was no hull left
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.11.29 10:49:00 -
[27]
Uniformity bonus. With shields at 25% part of the dmg will leak to the armour. Same goes to the hull. The damage leaking is more noticable when a shield tanking ship (or armour tanking as a matter of fact) gets low shields and it keeps at that area. And now with the new GUI you can see it pretty clearly. Damage will start to go through the shield at arround 20~25%, wich is when you start losing armour very slowly. It's kinda logical anyway: you start to get so many holes in the shield/armour that some of the shots will start to get through.
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.11.29 10:49:00 -
[28]
Uniformity bonus. With shields at 25% part of the dmg will leak to the armour. Same goes to the hull. The damage leaking is more noticable when a shield tanking ship (or armour tanking as a matter of fact) gets low shields and it keeps at that area. And now with the new GUI you can see it pretty clearly. Damage will start to go through the shield at arround 20~25%, wich is when you start losing armour very slowly. It's kinda logical anyway: you start to get so many holes in the shield/armour that some of the shots will start to get through.
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.11.29 12:04:00 -
[29]
if you really want to see it clearly, go fire at a drone, your own or someone elses, with small turrets/rockets.
youll basically just see all the bars go down at the same time, shields by most, structure by least.
yes, damage dos leak. i dont know if its by % remaining, or by a constant number (i think maybe a constant number given that it seems to leak more on smaller ships, especially drones.)
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.11.29 12:04:00 -
[30]
if you really want to see it clearly, go fire at a drone, your own or someone elses, with small turrets/rockets.
youll basically just see all the bars go down at the same time, shields by most, structure by least.
yes, damage dos leak. i dont know if its by % remaining, or by a constant number (i think maybe a constant number given that it seems to leak more on smaller ships, especially drones.)
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.11.29 12:30:00 -
[31]
I also have seen structure going down on objects in deadspace whilst shields are still up. I think its happening quite a lot, but obviously is most noticable on the large structures.
I also found out it seems to be affecting my ship too, as my retribution found out. It suddenly lost 30% structure to a heavy missile (doing more than 300 damage  ?! - anybody else seen this ?), and I am 99% certain my armour had not gone below 25%. I couldn't check exactly as I was too busy warping out.
This really needs to be looked at soon.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.11.29 12:30:00 -
[32]
I also have seen structure going down on objects in deadspace whilst shields are still up. I think its happening quite a lot, but obviously is most noticable on the large structures.
I also found out it seems to be affecting my ship too, as my retribution found out. It suddenly lost 30% structure to a heavy missile (doing more than 300 damage ?! - anybody else seen this ?), and I am 99% certain my armour had not gone below 25%. I couldn't check exactly as I was too busy warping out.
This really needs to be looked at soon.
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Crux Australis
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Posted - 2004.11.29 13:27:00 -
[33]
First of all, ty for your replies !
Probably I explained my self bad (English is not my first language  ): I'll retry sticking to examples with numbers.
Let's assume that:
1) I have 0 shields (I am mostly interested in armor tanking even if it should work the same way with shields)
2) I have 1000 armor
3) I am hit by a missile doing 1000 kinetik damage before resists are applied.
1st scenario: I have 0 resistance against kinetik damage (not possible to happen in game afaik).
Consequence: I suffer 1000 damage and I am straight on structure (or maybe, as many pointed out, I am left with some armor left and suffer some hull damage due to damage "bleeding" through low armor hp)
2nd scenario: I have 70% kinetik resistance (untanked Sacrilege)
Consequence: I suffer 30% of damage = 300 HP less on my armor
3rd scenario: I go nuts and slap 3 x 50% kinetic hardeners on my Sacrilege, this bringing its kinetik resistance to a whopping 94,21% !
Consequence: Will I...
A) Suffer 5,79% of the missile damage = 57,9 HP less on my armor
OR
B) Suffer more of that 5,79% percentage due to a fixed amount of damage being allowed to "bleed" through my resistances?
What I intented to ask you should have been: is there a fixed percentage of resistance beyond which it is of no use to raise my armor resistance, because of a fixed percentage/amount of damage being allowed to "bleed" in anyway, regardless of how high they could be?
If yes how much is it? 80%? 90%?
Should I be invulnerable, considering current game mechanics, with a 100% resistance versus a chosen damage type (which is not obtainable afaik) ???
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Crux Australis
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Posted - 2004.11.29 13:27:00 -
[34]
First of all, ty for your replies !
Probably I explained my self bad (English is not my first language ): I'll retry sticking to examples with numbers.
Let's assume that:
1) I have 0 shields (I am mostly interested in armor tanking even if it should work the same way with shields)
2) I have 1000 armor
3) I am hit by a missile doing 1000 kinetik damage before resists are applied.
1st scenario: I have 0 resistance against kinetik damage (not possible to happen in game afaik).
Consequence: I suffer 1000 damage and I am straight on structure (or maybe, as many pointed out, I am left with some armor left and suffer some hull damage due to damage "bleeding" through low armor hp)
2nd scenario: I have 70% kinetik resistance (untanked Sacrilege)
Consequence: I suffer 30% of damage = 300 HP less on my armor
3rd scenario: I go nuts and slap 3 x 50% kinetic hardeners on my Sacrilege, this bringing its kinetik resistance to a whopping 94,21% !
Consequence: Will I...
A) Suffer 5,79% of the missile damage = 57,9 HP less on my armor
OR
B) Suffer more of that 5,79% percentage due to a fixed amount of damage being allowed to "bleed" through my resistances?
What I intented to ask you should have been: is there a fixed percentage of resistance beyond which it is of no use to raise my armor resistance, because of a fixed percentage/amount of damage being allowed to "bleed" in anyway, regardless of how high they could be?
If yes how much is it? 80%? 90%?
Should I be invulnerable, considering current game mechanics, with a 100% resistance versus a chosen damage type (which is not obtainable afaik) ???
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 13:42:00 -
[35]
From what I know, damage only leaks through armor or shields when they drop under 25%, or you get hit by massive damage. Anyway, it is difficult to notice, it has been more an issue lately, with elite ships having very high resistances armor and shield drop more slowly and it is easier to see the effect. Not an issue in my opinion though.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Leshrac Shepherd
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:42:00 -
[36]
From what I know, damage only leaks through armor or shields when they drop under 25%, or you get hit by massive damage. Anyway, it is difficult to notice, it has been more an issue lately, with elite ships having very high resistances armor and shield drop more slowly and it is easier to see the effect. Not an issue in my opinion though.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
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