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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:35:00 -
[1]
I am about a 9 million SP player with most of my points in drones. I have tech 2 sentry drones and in a few days will have drone interfacing 5. I am looking at what to train or buy in order to do PVE missions faster.
The plan was to buy a Navy Dominix when I had enough money kicking around, and that would make me better. I actually fit a Navy Domi in EFT and realized that it isn't better than a regular Domi, so scratch that idea (take a look at a navy domi's price tag now, its lost several hundred million in the last few months). A rattlesnake doesn't help, as the mid slots you need for the omnitrackers to be a sentry boat takes away its advantages. A kronos doesn't use drones worth a crap, and is more like a megathron, so I really have no interest in training for that.
So I decided to stay with my Dominix for lack of anywhere else to go. I was looking at training up tech 2 Rails for my Dominix, but I see that it too looks like a waste of time. I am certainly no expert having never used them before, but javelin ammo reduces your speed massively, and has such a short optimum range I think I would rather use Tech 1 guns. How could you do anything with them? I don't get it.
I think my first mistake was training up gallante (I really didn't know CCP just loved Caldari when I started), and my second mistake was choosing to go for a Sentry boat.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? Where should I go from here?
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Joe Censored
Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:42:00 -
[2]
Why just continue working toward PVE??? There is a huge PVP aspect to this game you are missing out on. T2 cruisers, BCs, sniper BS's, etc all fall into that category
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:47:00 -
[3]
I fully intend to. I just wanted to train towards an elite missioning ship to secure my ISK making machine to secure my future.
Im finding now that there is no elite missioning ship if your Gallante (at least if youve trained sentries).
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.12 21:51:00 -
[4]
If you train for t2 rails you already get more damage due to the skills, and there is no reason to use t2 ammo when you got t2 rails, just use t1 ammo.
And domi is pretty good as mission ship, it can do alot of dps if you want.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:13:00 -
[5]
from the domi there is no where to go but up.
and on the rattlesnake it is very easy to fit 3 omnis and then an awesome shield tank. but I find the rattlesnake is kinda meh for other reasons.
and t2 rails are good, just use t1/faction ammo with them. will do more damage than t1 rails. most t2 ammo is bad anyways.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:17:00 -
[6]
The navy domi actually is notably better than the normal one, just not with drones.
The best way to improve yourself after having mastered the ubertank afk mission domi is to get into a shield tanked rail domi :D
Don't remember the exact fit, but it was something like:
Highs: 6X 425mm Rails Mids: shield tank Lows: 3 PDUs, a damage control and 3 mag field stabs.
Puts out more than twice the dps of a drone-only domi, and works much better with the navy variant with an extra mid and more fittings. For gallente mission runners the navy domi is king. |

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:24:00 -
[7]
If you want a distant goal to work towards, and you're rather fond of the way you mission now, you'd probably want to end up in Rattlesnake.
You'll have to train up Caldari (which it sounds like you're not thrilled with), but it's ultimately more of a drone boat than a missile boat.
Otherwise, take it from someone who loved the Vargur before Dominion: just because a ship isn't the best in its class, doesn't mean it isn't good. You might still want a Kronos.
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Zentock
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Posted - 2010.03.12 22:44:00 -
[8]
And theres always the Sin, and have you tried energy neutralization? Its really heartbreaking (to the target), when some baddy comes after ur ship and before he knows it hes out of power, and out of luck.
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Marie Hartinez
Gallente Aries Munitions and Defense
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Posted - 2010.03.12 23:07:00 -
[9]
Since you have mentioned you have most of your skill points in drones, I'd recommend you either stick with the Domi or go with an Ishtar. I can't say anything about the Rattlesnake as I've never flown one.
While the Ishtar may or may not finish a mission faster then a BS, it does have some advantages. First it can speed, especially if you like to get in close and engage with blasters. Second it has a smaller sig radius compared to a BS, so you'll take less damage.
But flying an Ishtar in a mission can be a bit of a challenge and you need to pay a bit more attention with it. I have near prefect skills with it and once in a while I get caught.
As to T2 hybrids, they can be worth to train up as they have greater damage potential over T1. But that is up to you, especially if you, like me, use drones as your primary weapon.
IMO, T2 ammo is not worth it for PvE and I normally use T1 or faction ammo in my T2 hybrids.
Surrender is still your slightly less painful option. |

RC Denton
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Posted - 2010.03.12 23:32:00 -
[10]
Ishtar. Depending on where you're doing your missions, a passive shield tanked ishtar is an elite isk making machine. Under the right circumstances you can solo lvl 5s in one. And you can do the majority of complexes.
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.13 00:03:00 -
[11]
These replies are helpful, thanks everyone.
Question: Why does a Shield Purger rig require 50 calibraion points, and an Armor Auxiliary Nano Pump Cost 100 calibration points?
Answer: You should be flying a Caldari ship you idiot!
The above is the root of my problem. Its inexcusable.
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Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.13 00:53:00 -
[12]
rattlesnake. like the domi, but more dps and shield tanked. train missiles, dont bother with hybrids until they fix them.
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.03.13 02:21:00 -
[13]
1. Ishtar 2. Proteus 3. Gila 4. Rattlesnake 5. Typhoon!
Have you seen the buffs to the typhoon? Its a minmatar ship, but has a drone bay size half that of the dominix and gives no bonus to drones themselves, but its fast at 400+ meters a second and can use torps/cruise. I am thinking of training ito that with heavy drones and torps while using like an ultra fast interceptor once I am done Vargur training. Looks like it will be fun, but its not AFK boat 
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.03.13 09:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Snyderm
Im finding now that there is no elite missioning ship if your Gallante (at least if youve trained sentries).
Depends on your definition of elite. The Dominix competes with >1 billion ISK faction ships and marauders in the top tier of PvE ships while being a tiny fraction of the cost.
The fact that Gallente don't have a super expensive mission boat isn't really a problem when the Domi works as well as anything else in the game.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.13 10:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marie Hartinez Since you have mentioned you have most of your skill points in drones, I'd recommend you either stick with the Domi or go with an Ishtar. I can't say anything about the Rattlesnake as I've never flown one.
While the Ishtar may or may not finish a mission faster then a BS, it does have some advantages. First it can speed, especially if you like to get in close and engage with blasters. Second it has a smaller sig radius compared to a BS, so you'll take less damage.
But flying an Ishtar in a mission can be a bit of a challenge and you need to pay a bit more attention with it. I have near prefect skills with it and once in a while I get caught.
As to T2 hybrids, they can be worth to train up as they have greater damage potential over T1. But that is up to you, especially if you, like me, use drones as your primary weapon.
IMO, T2 ammo is not worth it for PvE and I normally use T1 or faction ammo in my T2 hybrids.
ishtar is very slow at mission completion.
and I disagree, the ishtar takes far less attention than any other ship (except maybe the rattlesnake), with speed + sig + awesome tank it is uberly overtanked for most missions. and requires almost no attention to run.
afk ishtar! doesn't make the best income, but makes it without paying attention.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.13 10:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Originally by: Snyderm
Im finding now that there is no elite missioning ship if your Gallante (at least if youve trained sentries).
Depends on your definition of elite. The Dominix competes with >1 billion ISK faction ships and marauders in the top tier of PvE ships while being a tiny fraction of the cost.
The fact that Gallente don't have a super expensive mission boat isn't really a problem when the Domi works as well as anything else in the game.
I meh at the domi, I MEH at it sir!
the 350 rail 2 sda domi is kinda thinly tanked, also 350s have rather poor range. 425 shield tank gets tight on fitting, and loses out on sentry damage as no room for omnis.
that and I wouldn't bother using the domi on anything but gurista/serpentis missions.
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Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.13 15:14:00 -
[17]
I have a question about the Gila. From fitting it in EFT, this ship seems superior to the Ishtar in every single way. It has lower training requirements, the same drone bay, but it has one lower low slot and one more medium slot, making it fit a much, much better tank and utility than the istar.
Is there a reason that anyone would ever fly an istar? The 35 million isk price difference seems nothing compared to how much better the Gila is than the Ishtar.
Since Ive never actually flown either, I really don't know this, I am just asking.
Anyone have any input on this?
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Sigaar
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Posted - 2010.03.13 15:34:00 -
[18]
> Gila is better then Ishtar. You are not missing anything. But both have poor dps. Around 500 dps and thats it.
> Here are few possible ways:
1. Perfect your Dominix skills, get a navy dominix (its still slightly better so why not), go afk missioning way and be done with it. 2. Same story but get Rail dominix, its not afk but it has more then 1.5 times the dps of regular domi. Faster mission completion = awesome. 3. Go for Rattlesnake ù the elite afk drone boat with huge dps. Sentry rig, omni, Bcus, torpedoes, painters. 1000+ dps overall, bonus to drone damage and insane tank. You can even put in rigors+cruise and plug in FoF cruise missiles which make it more afk. 4. Gila and Ishtar are not really an upgrade from Domi, more of a sidegrade.
All those variants are more then viable, rattlesnake prolly isnt worth it if you just want something to make some isk to pvp. After all t1 boat has its advantage ù you can fly it in 0.0 or low sec space and insurance will still cover 90% of its price.
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Kalnov
Gallente Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.13 20:27:00 -
[19]
Rail Domi can push 900-1000 DPS. Just work towards maxing it out completely.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.03.13 20:47:00 -
[20]
I share your pain, having gallente battleship 5 and flying a dominix with T2 sentries and heavies.
My current plan is to cross-train into a Rattlesnake then once I have shield and missile skills trained up perhaps switch over to a Golem.
The major problem with the plan is that it's a lot of training and involves giving up my play style.
I have to give a big WTF to CCP on drone play though... Navy Dominix more expensive than regular Dominix and less desirable for PvP (sentry rigging issues). Faction drones more expensive than T2 and same or less damage. Because the one thing that I really want to do is spend a couple of orders of magnitude more money for less damage. I thought that was demonstrated pretty well from the augmented drones that (almost) no-one uses.
On the other hand the Rattlesnake redesign does get props.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.13 21:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Snyderm
Question: Why does a Shield Purger rig require 50 calibraion points, and an Armor Auxiliary Nano Pump Cost 100 calibration points?
Eh...the answer is really that the Purger is more like a Trimark Armor Pump than it is like an Auxiliary Nano Pump.
Just like there isn't anything quite like the Purger for armor, there isn't anything like the aux nano pump for shields. The closest thing would be an Operational Solidifier, which is also 100 calibration points, but reduces cycle time by 15%, which also increases cap/sec usage.
Armor tanks are far more cap efficient than shield tanks. The advantage of shields in PVE though is that you don't trade DPS for tank, which is something armor always has to balance...
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.03.13 21:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Celia Therone I share your pain, having gallente battleship 5 and flying a dominix with T2 sentries and heavies.
My current plan is to cross-train into a Rattlesnake then once I have shield and missile skills trained up perhaps switch over to a Golem.
The major problem with the plan is that it's a lot of training and involves giving up my play style.
I have to give a big WTF to CCP on drone play though... Navy Dominix more expensive than regular Dominix and less desirable for PvP (sentry rigging issues). Faction drones more expensive than T2 and same or less damage. Because the one thing that I really want to do is spend a couple of orders of magnitude more money for less damage. I thought that was demonstrated pretty well from the augmented drones that (almost) no-one uses.
On the other hand the Rattlesnake redesign does get props.
Because no one here seems to understand why the navy domi is so awesome, I've gone and made a fit, it has a faction shield booster (mostly because I never got around to t2 x-large SBs) but the rest is t2: This is how you fly a navy domi for pve It's by no means a conventional fit, but it's similar to what I use to run missions when I feel like actually watching my screen. To put it simply: I don't usually even have to turn on the shield booster, the rats die quickly enough that it's not necessary. The domi (and navy domi by extension) are the best gallente mission runners out there (and yes the navy domi does compete with the rattler, no variable damage but the damage is instant etc etc etc).
Tldr: Click the link I posted, that's what you do once you max your domi skills. |

Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.03.13 23:33:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Snyderm on 13/03/2010 23:35:05 *Sigh*, so the Navy Dominix is a good ship if you active shield tank?
Call me crazy, but shouldn't CCP design a Navy Dominix that Uses sentries well and armor tanks?
Why would anyone train Gallante in the first place if we are all required to train missiles and shields to be competitive anyway? For crying out loud, if thats the best that can be done why don't we all just be caldari? We can be perfectly happy in our Drakes and Ravens. Sure its boring as hell without any variety, but thats what CCP wants.
Seriously? Active shield tank?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.14 03:39:00 -
[24]
I'm still not convinced the gila is better than the ishtar. or am I being too narrow in the full aggro afk mission role?
and I still meh at the shield domi. if you aren't going to fit omnis and tracking comps gtfo imo. swapping up to 425s but having to use wardens almost all the time isn't an upgrade to me.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Star Bombers
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Posted - 2010.03.14 04:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aqriue 1. Ishtar 2. Proteus 3. Gila 4. Rattlesnake 5. Typhoon!
Have you seen the buffs to the typhoon? Its a minmatar ship, but has a drone bay size half that of the dominix and gives no bonus to drones themselves, but its fast at 400+ meters a second and can use torps/cruise. I am thinking of training ito that with heavy drones and torps while using like an ultra fast interceptor once I am done Vargur training. Looks like it will be fun, but its not AFK boat 
I've flown Phoons for a long time and can solo most missions in them, but the training for them is not for the impatient, but they make up for that by being the most fun BSes to fly. Of course for missions, Golem/Vargur/Mach/CNR are still the most efficient in terms of isk/hour.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.03.14 06:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Snyderm Edited by: Snyderm on 13/03/2010 23:35:05 *Sigh*, so the Navy Dominix is a good ship if you active shield tank?
Call me crazy, but shouldn't CCP design a Navy Dominix that Uses sentries well and armor tanks?
Why would anyone train Gallante in the first place if we are all required to train missiles and shields to be competitive anyway? For crying out loud, if thats the best that can be done why don't we all just be caldari? We can be perfectly happy in our Drakes and Ravens. Sure its boring as hell without any variety, but thats what CCP wants.
Seriously? Active shield tank?
The domi is, hands down, bar none, the most versatile ship in the game. How can you make the claim that ravens and drakes are boring and without any variety, when you're in the ship that has the most variety in the whole game? I have 2 races BS trained to V, 3 races BS tech II weapons, 3 races command ships with good support skills and tech II guns. If I had to pick one ship to spend the rest of my eve career in, do you know what it would be? The navy domi (or regular one if cost was a factor)
As far as the shield whine goes, active shield tanks are just better in missions. They let you use all your lows for weapon upgrades (incidentally the ships on which this advantage is made very clear are ones like the macharial and the domi, not ships that traditionally shield tank like the raven) If you want to improve your pve then yes, the best way to do that is to get shield skills. Gallente kind of get shafted in terms of their marauder (which I also fly btw, or flew rather)and while the domi is awesome, the other 2 BS hulls are kind of crap. However, this is made up for by the awesomeness that is the dominix. Seriously, did you not look at the stats on the ship I posted? You'll be hard pressed to find a better ship for damage projection in the game, and if you're going against kinetic/thermal rats the REGULAR domi (remember that the navy domi is an upgrade to tank, not damage) will go through missions more quickly than even the golem, arguably the best mission runner out there. The damn thing's basically a kinetic/thermal nightmare; not a whole lot of tank unless you really pimp it, but levels of damage that go beyond ridiculous, and in the end the isk/hour you make dictates how good a ship is at running missions, since every battleship in the game can be fit to tank them. |

Songbird
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Posted - 2010.03.19 00:34:00 -
[27]
just get a vindi, fit 8 425s, carry 4 t2 sentry,5 smalls for inties, sensor booster and web in the mids , 3 damage mods and 4 piece tank in the lows. With the 37.5% damage bonus you should have more damage than any ishtar or navy domi.
PS do not be sorry you invested heavily in the drones. I've found they enrich 90% of the ships out there |

el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.03.19 06:20:00 -
[28]
The Caldari mentality is strong in this thread.
The Rattler is for noobs who overtank and AFK their missions.
A DPS-tanking T2 sentry Domi is a blitzkrieg king, and it rivals the Mare or Mach for a fraction of the cost. While hybrids may not be the fotm, it is still my preferred lvl 4 boat when I need to run missions quickly.
And as previously mentioned, it is also a fantastic PVP boat that fits numerous roles. Your skills are definitely not wasted, and the balance between races will eventually shift back to Gall, anyway.
Enjoy your 50m pwnmobile and ignore that it looks like a turd. |

Footoo Rama
Gallente Caldari Illuminati
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Posted - 2010.03.19 09:20:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Footoo Rama on 19/03/2010 09:22:40
Originally by: Cambarus The domi is, hands down, bar none, the most versatile ship in the game. How can you make the claim that ravens and drakes are boring and without any variety, when you're in the ship that has the most variety in the whole game? I have 2 races BS trained to V, 3 races BS tech II weapons, 3 races command ships with good support skills and tech II guns. If I had to pick one ship to spend the rest of my eve career in, do you know what it would be? The navy domi (or regular one if cost was a factor)
As far as the shield whine goes, active shield tanks are just better in missions. They let you use all your lows for weapon upgrades (incidentally the ships on which this advantage is made very clear are ones like the macharial and the domi, not ships that traditionally shield tank like the raven) If you want to improve your pve then yes, the best way to do that is to get shield skills. Gallente kind of get shafted in terms of their marauder (which I also fly btw, or flew rather)and while the domi is awesome, the other 2 BS hulls are kind of crap. However, this is made up for by the awesomeness that is the dominix. Seriously, did you not look at the stats on the ship I posted? You'll be hard pressed to find a better ship for damage projection in the game, and if you're going against kinetic/thermal rats the REGULAR domi (remember that the navy domi is an upgrade to tank, not damage) will go through missions more quickly than even the golem, arguably the best mission runner out there. The damn thing's basically a kinetic/thermal nightmare; not a whole lot of tank unless you really pimp it, but levels of damage that go beyond ridiculous, and in the end the isk/hour you make dictates how good a ship is at running missions, since every battleship in the game can be fit to tank them.
What he said... The Navy Domi in PvE is not much of an improvement you run into fitting issues when you try to make a better sentry/rails/ ar tank mission runner, Sure it is better in almost every stat but once you start to play with fittings the dps and tank does not really improve, mostly due to the main problem of the domi... low pg/cpu. Still if I only had one hull it would be the domi, it can do everything up with the best ships but fire cruise/torps... ECM, RR/logistics/ sniper / bait lol tank/ PvE god/ blaster boat.
as for the OP at 25 million I am still training skills to make my Domi better, but you may want to try something else like HACS or Recons, vary it up a bit. |

Kenz Rider
J Club
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:31:00 -
[30]
I started with the Domi. For variety I started flying a Mega which was more fun and completed the missions a bit faster with my skills at the time. I switched between those two ships for a long time. The Ishtar is also a favorite of mine, but isn't any better than the Domi for PvE. When the new Gila appeared I started flying it for missions -- more for kicks than efficiency.
The next ships I would pick to do missions in as a drone user are either a Navy Megathron or a Fleet Typhoon. You get a huge drone bay -- by mission standards more than enough, plus a lot of turret or missile DPS capability and more than enough mids and lows to fit all the necessary support mods. Whether they are better than a Navy Domi is hard to say and probably depends on what faction you primarily fight against.
One thing I think people get too caught up on are the ship drone bonuses. 10% is a lot per level (40-50% total for most PVE pilots), but the actual difference is 475 DPS with ship bonus versus 350 DPS without (assuming 50%), because the 50% is not applied to all the drone modifiers. So if your turrets or missiles can apply 125 more DPS in a Fleet Typhoon for example vs a Dominix, then you could be better off other things be equal (which they won't be). |
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