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Ckaste
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Posted - 2010.03.14 12:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ckaste on 14/03/2010 12:20:27
Hi everybody,
What combo is better for typical L4s, (talking about HMLs btw)
2x rigor II (300 cali)
1x rigor I (100 cali)
671 dps all V(no implants, reload included, kinetic fury missiles)
87.7 explosion radius
145.5 explosion velocity
or
1x bay loading accelerator II (300 cali)
2x flare calalysts I (100 cali)
712 dps all V(no implants, reload included, kinetic fury missiles)
161.2 explosion radius
192.4 explosion velocity
Basically is 41 dps(6% increase, even higher without factoring reload) and 46.9 increased explosion velocity worth almost doubling the explosive radius from 87.7 to 161.2? Average mission frigate radius is 100m and velocity is from 200m/s to 400m/s, however cruisers and above should take full damage from both setups and later one has 41(6%) extra dps.
Assume changing ammo to T1 or precision missiles for frigates will not take place.
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Ragster
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Posted - 2010.03.14 14:34:00 -
[2]
Been wondering this myself.
How many bcu's are you using cause last I checked I dont think I even got a 6% increase for a bayloading.
Also from my experience I hit cruisers for full damage without any rigs to hel exp rad/vel so itd pretty much be rigging to just kill the frigates faster :/
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.14 14:43:00 -
[3]
You need 2x t2 rigors to hit cruisers for full damage with fury hmls.
Another rigor will help you with killing elite frigs, but not by much.
If you are playing actively /add velocity to overview/, you can 2-shoot elite frigs when they are pulsing mwd /accelerating/. If they are already in orbit, it takes 4-5 volleys of t1 missiles /i used to bring precisions for frigs, but i ran out of them so im using t1 now - precisions were sometimes '1 volley better' , but not vs all elite frigs/.
T2 damage rig and flares is setup for ham tengu, which i dont find very good for l4s, so i dont use it. In theory you could use it for hml tengu with painters, but i dont think it would be more efficient than rigors.
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Gul Rashen
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Posted - 2010.03.14 16:27:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 14/03/2010 16:32:30
If you use Precision HMs then Bay Loading II+Flares is the better Combination. I changed my Fitting about 2 Month ago from 3 Rigors to Bay II+Flares and can run my Missions up to 10% faster now. You'll save time with every Volley you shoot. Even without TP you will kill all Cruisers, Battlecruisers and BS faster, that makes up for an extra Volley on some of the Elitefrigs easily.
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Ckaste
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Posted - 2010.03.15 07:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ragster
How many bcu's are you using cause last I checked I dont think I even got a 6% increase for a bayloading.
4 CN BCU, still the way stacking penalty works 15% rof from the rig is applied before BCU's 10%, so its a solid dps increase even if you have a lot of BCUs.
IIRC typical cruisers in L4s have 300m radius and up to 200m/s velocity, isn't ~160m explosive radius and ~190 m/s explosive velocity enough to hit them for full damage?
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Gul Rashen
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Posted - 2010.03.15 10:40:00 -
[6]
My own Experience with Cruisers:
Volleys i needed with 3 Rigors: 2 for all normal Cruisers, 4-5 for Elitecruisers
Volleys i need with 2 Flare: 2 for 95% of the normal Cruisers, 4-5 for Elitecruisers
With the Rigors the Damage is more evenly if you shoot faster and smaller Ships.
In a bigger Mission like GE, WC you shoot about 400 Volleys, with the Bay Loading Rig it takes 24min to do that. Without the ROF-Rig you will fire only 375 Volleys in the same time. Means even if you need some Volleys more you're still faster.
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Pascal Almaric
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2010.03.15 11:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ckaste
IIRC typical cruisers in L4s have 300m radius
The figure on overview is 300m diameter, so 150m radius, methinks.
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Ckaste
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Posted - 2010.03.15 11:16:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ckaste on 15/03/2010 11:16:43
Originally by: Pascal Almaric
Originally by: Ckaste
IIRC typical cruisers in L4s have 300m radius
The figure on overview is 300m diameter, so 150m radius, methinks.
You're probably right, I only payed attention to the overview value lol  kinda wondered how come NPCs have such big cruisers. xD Still 162m explosive radius vs 150 radius should do fairly close to 90% of damage, not as good as I thought though.
And I was just beginning to think that rigors were inferior after all, not so simple now...
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.15 11:34:00 -
[9]
Only that npc ships sometimes pulse mwd and when they are decelerating, sig bloom of mwd doesnt apply = reduced damage from missiles. And with rigors you will still do full damage /maybe except some angel ships/.
If you decide to use tp, you can get better results with t2 rof rig, but the difference isnt enough for me and using tp is pita.
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Gul Rashen
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Posted - 2010.03.15 12:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 15/03/2010 12:09:44
The Question is not, if you make less Damage vs. Cruisers, but if the +Damage vs. BS and BC makes up for that.
1. With proper Skills and a good Fitting the less Damage doesn't mean that you need longer to take down Cruisers. If you take a look on the Eff. HP of the Cruisers you will see that the Damage with 2 Flares is enough to bring them down with the same amount of Volleys.
2. In the same time you shoot 13 Volleys with 3 Rigors-Fitting you'll shoot 14 Volleys with Bay/Flare-Fitting.
3. Sometimes you will need a Volley less for BS, cause they have less time for Repping.
I don't know how your Skills are. What i know is that a Full Skilled Char with Hardwirings in a Tengu with 4 CN BCU can get better Missiontimes with Bay II/Flares even if he not uses a TP.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.15 12:21:00 -
[11]
I use 3% hardwires and skills are mostly l5.
But still - you will save 1 volley on bs and lose 1 volley on frig... and damage lost to mwding rats...
...but i didnt try, im just guessing /based on performance of rigors/, so i will not argue till i try myself /but dont have sisi atm and dont want to waste 80m for a rig/.
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Gul Rashen
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Posted - 2010.03.15 12:47:00 -
[12]
You will not only save 1 Volley on BS, you will save time with each Volley you fire.
Example 1 Volley less for the BS and Volley more for the Frigs:
3 Rigor:
2 Volleys/Frig+9 Volleys BS=11 Volleys*3,83sec=42,13sec
Bay/Flare:
3 Volleys/Frig+8 Volleys BS=11 Volleys*3,59=39,49
But i will not say that Bay II/Flares is the better combination for each single Tengupilot, cause don't know it.
I only tested it for myself and with my skills, my Fitting, my Hardwirings, my Playstyle it's the better combinaton for me. Maybe another Player needs so much more Volleys with this combination that 3 Rigors would be better for him, don't know.
So, you're right. Claim a Mission on Sisi and test both Combination to see what Rig-Combination fits your Playstyle better.
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