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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:09:00 -
[1]
Poor yields of isotopes noted in 0.0 is this some kind of game flaw?
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:09:00 -
[2]
Poor yields of isotopes noted in 0.0 is this some kind of game flaw?
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EzTarget
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:22:00 -
[3]
No it's by design, to spread the wealth a bit, it's no good having all the high end ores in 0.0 space, empire miners need to make cash too...
That's comming from a 0.0 mininer / hunter :)
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EzTarget
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:22:00 -
[4]
No it's by design, to spread the wealth a bit, it's no good having all the high end ores in 0.0 space, empire miners need to make cash too...
That's comming from a 0.0 mininer / hunter :)
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:37:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nepereta on 29/11/2004 17:47:23
Edited by: Nepereta on 29/11/2004 17:42:16
Isotopes are sizeable (0.4m3) and transporting them down to places on the 'edge' are going to be a logistical nightmare. Or mining the native weaker isotope bearing ice is also gonna be a logisical nightmare. I just want confirmation from a CCP representative that this is all by design.
Not that I find anything about the way I have lived as easy. It just seems like if I start a POS now it will be simply be for bragging rights and for the sake of mounting uber guns on it rather than any great economic reason.
I just feel that allainces such as Curse ,FA & Xetic are weakened in comparision to the new corps.
I just feel that we ( the 0.0 alliances) have been left out of pos and its probable place in 0.0 is simply some kind of uber-fortress to replace our safespots.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.29 17:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nepereta on 29/11/2004 17:47:23
Edited by: Nepereta on 29/11/2004 17:42:16
Isotopes are sizeable (0.4m3) and transporting them down to places on the 'edge' are going to be a logistical nightmare. Or mining the native weaker isotope bearing ice is also gonna be a logisical nightmare. I just want confirmation from a CCP representative that this is all by design.
Not that I find anything about the way I have lived as easy. It just seems like if I start a POS now it will be simply be for bragging rights and for the sake of mounting uber guns on it rather than any great economic reason.
I just feel that allainces such as Curse ,FA & Xetic are weakened in comparision to the new corps.
I just feel that we ( the 0.0 alliances) have been left out of pos and its probable place in 0.0 is simply some kind of uber-fortress to replace our safespots.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:12:00 -
[7]
I can understand your points Nepereta, but on the other hand, we're also relying on you for those advanced materials we need to build things like the Graviton Reactors used in the Crows and Raptors... This will let you give something to the newer players but at the same time, will encourage more interaction.
I think that 10 freelancers are more able to keep a steady flow coming also, given that there's no rats in 0.9, but there is Blue Ice.
I think they put this in as a balance against this "You're a carebear miner, so you deserve to die" attitude that seems to prevail. Now if a corp does that, they're going to find it harder to get their station supplies.
I know I'd supply a corp that treats me well for a lot less than a corp that's tried to kill me in the past - the latter's likely to get ripped off, in fact, as I try to recoup the cost of the damage they caused me.
I noticed in Sinq Laison when I was there, that there are POS fuels on sale already - I haven't checked in the other systems yet, but I'm sure it's the same all over - perhaps the POS owners should start thinking about setting up supply lines to and from their stations. BPC's of tech 2 items in empire would also be nice.
You grease our palms and we'll keep those fires burning. 
Of course, if you were less aggressive to independants and kept the approaches free of freelance pirates, you might also get a few independant hauler pilots willing to make the runs for you. At the moment, we're far more likely to get ganked at the first gate than we are to actually make it to you guys - especially with such a valuable cargo.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:12:00 -
[8]
I can understand your points Nepereta, but on the other hand, we're also relying on you for those advanced materials we need to build things like the Graviton Reactors used in the Crows and Raptors... This will let you give something to the newer players but at the same time, will encourage more interaction.
I think that 10 freelancers are more able to keep a steady flow coming also, given that there's no rats in 0.9, but there is Blue Ice.
I think they put this in as a balance against this "You're a carebear miner, so you deserve to die" attitude that seems to prevail. Now if a corp does that, they're going to find it harder to get their station supplies.
I know I'd supply a corp that treats me well for a lot less than a corp that's tried to kill me in the past - the latter's likely to get ripped off, in fact, as I try to recoup the cost of the damage they caused me.
I noticed in Sinq Laison when I was there, that there are POS fuels on sale already - I haven't checked in the other systems yet, but I'm sure it's the same all over - perhaps the POS owners should start thinking about setting up supply lines to and from their stations. BPC's of tech 2 items in empire would also be nice.
You grease our palms and we'll keep those fires burning.
Of course, if you were less aggressive to independants and kept the approaches free of freelance pirates, you might also get a few independant hauler pilots willing to make the runs for you. At the moment, we're far more likely to get ganked at the first gate than we are to actually make it to you guys - especially with such a valuable cargo.
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Iachrites Archveult
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Posted - 2004.11.30 10:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Iachrites Archveult on 30/11/2004 10:29:18
 Originally by: Nepereta
Poor yields of isotopes noted in 0.0 is this some kind of game flaw?
Absolute crap minerals in > 0.5, is this some kind of game flaw?
Your answer to that, is my answer to your question.
It's called 'balance'.
0.0 Alliances now have a choice - make their space safe for trade and get isotopes or continue on the path of semi-piracy and freebootery and have to work very hard to get any.
Iac
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Iachrites Archveult
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Posted - 2004.11.30 10:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Iachrites Archveult on 30/11/2004 10:29:18
Originally by: Nepereta
Poor yields of isotopes noted in 0.0 is this some kind of game flaw?
Absolute crap minerals in > 0.5, is this some kind of game flaw?
Your answer to that, is my answer to your question.
It's called 'balance'.
0.0 Alliances now have a choice - make their space safe for trade and get isotopes or continue on the path of semi-piracy and freebootery and have to work very hard to get any.
Iac
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 12:20:00 -
[11]
LOL... "Up the Carebear Revolution!!!" 
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 12:20:00 -
[12]
LOL... "Up the Carebear Revolution!!!"
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Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.11.30 12:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Stront3h on 30/11/2004 12:26:19
Seems fair to me if its intended, after all why should you have everying in one area of space?
And I think that Iachrites Archveult has made a very good point. 0.0 aliances will need to make contracts with empire mining corps/haulers etc. to get everything they need. But on the other hand, I doubt I'd have anything to do with supplying the the likes of CA, mainly based on their past/current attitude towards other Empire corps.  |
Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.11.30 12:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Stront3h on 30/11/2004 12:26:19
Seems fair to me if its intended, after all why should you have everying in one area of space?
And I think that Iachrites Archveult has made a very good point. 0.0 aliances will need to make contracts with empire mining corps/haulers etc. to get everything they need. But on the other hand, I doubt I'd have anything to do with supplying the the likes of CA, mainly based on their past/current attitude towards other Empire corps. |
Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.30 16:16:00 -
[15]
I am totally for trading with empire folk after all I have done it for ages. I have sold and bought many billions of minerals and equipment in my time.
My problems are the logisitics ones I mentioned is shipping the stuff back. To get empire low end minerals in bulk in the past I would turn my cheaply bought empire minerals into large guns carry them down en masse then recycle the lot.
But do you see that I am going to have problems moving large amounts of isotopes (volume 0.4) to stations that require large amounts of them. Particularly to my region 'Omist' which is one of the most remote parts of the galaxy.
Not to mention the inherent risks that the journey entails.
BTW Xetic are a nice alliance, we only started stopping people coming in when the war with CA started.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.30 16:16:00 -
[16]
I am totally for trading with empire folk after all I have done it for ages. I have sold and bought many billions of minerals and equipment in my time.
My problems are the logisitics ones I mentioned is shipping the stuff back. To get empire low end minerals in bulk in the past I would turn my cheaply bought empire minerals into large guns carry them down en masse then recycle the lot.
But do you see that I am going to have problems moving large amounts of isotopes (volume 0.4) to stations that require large amounts of them. Particularly to my region 'Omist' which is one of the most remote parts of the galaxy.
Not to mention the inherent risks that the journey entails.
BTW Xetic are a nice alliance, we only started stopping people coming in when the war with CA started.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 16:25:00 -
[17]
It's nice to hear of a someone out there not trying to insult the empire miners or those who get tired of paying out for new clones.
I see what you're saying - it would indeed be hard to sa***uard the isotopes - but then perhaps you can get some convoys going.
I wouldn't mind giving it a try sometime - I don't mind dying if I can afford to replace the losses... it's the "trying to mine and haul in 0.4 and lower and getting ganked by some rogue who's sitting on a gate" that annoys me.
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Sokudo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 16:25:00 -
[18]
It's nice to hear of a someone out there not trying to insult the empire miners or those who get tired of paying out for new clones.
I see what you're saying - it would indeed be hard to sa***uard the isotopes - but then perhaps you can get some convoys going.
I wouldn't mind giving it a try sometime - I don't mind dying if I can afford to replace the losses... it's the "trying to mine and haul in 0.4 and lower and getting ganked by some rogue who's sitting on a gate" that annoys me.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.30 17:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nepereta on 30/11/2004 17:13:27
hey don't for one minute think that all the 1337 uber ninja commandos forum warriors gank artists are all that 0.0 consists of. We just play the game and we all started in empire.
BTW 0.4 is more dangerous than many regions in 0.0 I know of.
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Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.11.30 17:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nepereta on 30/11/2004 17:13:27
hey don't for one minute think that all the 1337 uber ninja commandos forum warriors gank artists are all that 0.0 consists of. We just play the game and we all started in empire.
BTW 0.4 is more dangerous than many regions in 0.0 I know of.
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NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2004.11.30 21:07:00 -
[21]
Perhaps you people shouting "no, it gives noobs in empire a chance to make money" go any further - the whole reason the so called "rare" ores from 0.0 are so expensive is because of the difficulties that come with mining it, i assure you nobody is going to have much difficulty mining isotypes in concord protected space, its going to be much the same as veldaspar, cheap and easily bought.
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NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2004.11.30 21:07:00 -
[22]
Perhaps you people shouting "no, it gives noobs in empire a chance to make money" go any further - the whole reason the so called "rare" ores from 0.0 are so expensive is because of the difficulties that come with mining it, i assure you nobody is going to have much difficulty mining isotypes in concord protected space, its going to be much the same as veldaspar, cheap and easily bought.
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Zinjan
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Posted - 2004.11.30 23:47:00 -
[23]
Logistic nightmare?
500 isotopes are consumed per hour that makes 12000 Isotopes per. day
12000 isotopes takes up 4800 m3. A single haul in Iteron Mark V could bring sufficient isotopes for 5+ days.
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Zinjan
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Posted - 2004.11.30 23:47:00 -
[24]
Logistic nightmare?
500 isotopes are consumed per hour that makes 12000 Isotopes per. day
12000 isotopes takes up 4800 m3. A single haul in Iteron Mark V could bring sufficient isotopes for 5+ days.
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pignol marcel
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Posted - 2004.12.03 07:31:00 -
[25]
there is other fuel to bring .
you need around 11.000m3 of fuel each day to run a POS 24/24
with the ice find in 0.0 , you need 20H of mining with a medium barge to gather the isotope for 24H
Moon harvesting POS are not for 0.0 space
I think that the name exodus was chosen for the moving of 0.0 toward Empire for people who want to play with the new toys
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pignol marcel
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Posted - 2004.12.03 07:31:00 -
[26]
there is other fuel to bring .
you need around 11.000m3 of fuel each day to run a POS 24/24
with the ice find in 0.0 , you need 20H of mining with a medium barge to gather the isotope for 24H
Moon harvesting POS are not for 0.0 space
I think that the name exodus was chosen for the moving of 0.0 toward Empire for people who want to play with the new toys
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Luther Kincaid
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Posted - 2004.12.03 11:30:00 -
[27]
atm the cost of running a POS outweighs any profit you might make selling the products of it (have you seen the price of isotopes in empire atm? never mind the other bits of fuel you need).
Secondly, the type of 0.0 peeps likely to embark on this endeavour (i.e producer/miners) need a good reason for doing so, in other words they need to recoup their investment and at the end be making more money looking after their POS than just sitting in a belt mining high ends.
Balance is a fine thing.. got no problem with that. But you gotta make it worth everyones while, otherwise they just won't do it
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Luther Kincaid
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Posted - 2004.12.03 11:30:00 -
[28]
atm the cost of running a POS outweighs any profit you might make selling the products of it (have you seen the price of isotopes in empire atm? never mind the other bits of fuel you need).
Secondly, the type of 0.0 peeps likely to embark on this endeavour (i.e producer/miners) need a good reason for doing so, in other words they need to recoup their investment and at the end be making more money looking after their POS than just sitting in a belt mining high ends.
Balance is a fine thing.. got no problem with that. But you gotta make it worth everyones while, otherwise they just won't do it
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:36:00 -
[29]
While in 0.0 the isotopes are hard to get by the high secure empire spaces are unsuitable for POS, only option is to put POS in low sec systems, range from 0.0 is less and from high secure space is less aswell.
Yes you will have to put up a logistic supply line, maybe because POS are NOT intended to be easy for everyone.
It requires team effort.
POS are not intended to be all over the place, smae as with Zyd and Mega, BS BPO's and so on.
You can't expect to have everything you need closeby in every pocket of space.
Same as some systems get hardly used due to the fact they are too remote for allmost everything the same applies for POS.
Not every system is suitable for one.
Some systems have good moons but the rest of the stuff you need has to be brought in from a large distance.
If it was easy to put up POS and keep it running and make a profitable then people would start to yell that they can't sell anything because everyone would make their own stuff and wouldnt buy on the market.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:36:00 -
[30]
While in 0.0 the isotopes are hard to get by the high secure empire spaces are unsuitable for POS, only option is to put POS in low sec systems, range from 0.0 is less and from high secure space is less aswell.
Yes you will have to put up a logistic supply line, maybe because POS are NOT intended to be easy for everyone.
It requires team effort.
POS are not intended to be all over the place, smae as with Zyd and Mega, BS BPO's and so on.
You can't expect to have everything you need closeby in every pocket of space.
Same as some systems get hardly used due to the fact they are too remote for allmost everything the same applies for POS.
Not every system is suitable for one.
Some systems have good moons but the rest of the stuff you need has to be brought in from a large distance.
If it was easy to put up POS and keep it running and make a profitable then people would start to yell that they can't sell anything because everyone would make their own stuff and wouldnt buy on the market.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
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