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Thorax bonus is broken :/

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DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.29 21:51:00 - [1] The mwd bonus should apply so that at lvl 5 cruiser skill you get a 0% cap penalty for fitting a mwd. Currently, the bonus is added after your cap has decreased. Example: at lvl 5 cap management and cruiser 5.. 1100 base cap x 1.25 = 1375 total cap 1375 x 0.75 mwd penalty = 1031.25 cap after fitting mwd 1031.25 x 1.25 mwd bonus on thorax (cruiser 5) = 1289.06 cap 1289/1375 = 0.9375 or about a 6.25% cap loss at max skills. :/ _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.29 21:51:00 - [2] The mwd bonus should apply so that at lvl 5 cruiser skill you get a 0% cap penalty for fitting a mwd. Currently, the bonus is added after your cap has decreased. Example: at lvl 5 cap management and cruiser 5.. 1100 base cap x 1.25 = 1375 total cap 1375 x 0.75 mwd penalty = 1031.25 cap after fitting mwd 1031.25 x 1.25 mwd bonus on thorax (cruiser 5) = 1289.06 cap 1289/1375 = 0.9375 or about a 6.25% cap loss at max skills. :/ _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:03:00 - [3] as far as i know, it was meant to be this way. Awsome sig too. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:03:00 - [4] as far as i know, it was meant to be this way. Awsome sig too. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Aikudos En'Fellamen	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:04:00 - [5] This is how it's always been, and how it should remain. It's not broken. ___________________________________________ Aikudos En'Fellamen
Aikudos En'Fellamen	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:04:00 - [6] This is how it's always been, and how it should remain. It's not broken. ___________________________________________ Aikudos En'Fellamen
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:48:00 - [7] It's hard to write a short description saying that "- some percentage points per gallente ship level, it's exponential or something, but you'll end up not getting quite as big bonus as you thought" and still have a credible description. Yes, and the bonus sucks. +5% capacitor capacity is much better, does the same with MWD and works when you don't have an MWD. But we keep hearing it's "the most dmaaging cruiser out there". I agree, I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.29 22:48:00 - [8] It's hard to write a short description saying that "- some percentage points per gallente ship level, it's exponential or something, but you'll end up not getting quite as big bonus as you thought" and still have a credible description. Yes, and the bonus sucks. +5% capacitor capacity is much better, does the same with MWD and works when you don't have an MWD. But we keep hearing it's "the most dmaaging cruiser out there". I agree, I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 23:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Ithildin I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. well first off... its a tier 4 cruiser... reason: cuz they work better that way... 1x 100mn AB 1x 10mn mwd 5x light neutron you are faster than any inty... you can outrun any "normal" blasterrax... you can outrun missiles... and you will still kill other cruisers pretty fast... so why would you choose the other way? its what we, the playerbase call balance isnt it? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 23:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Ithildin I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. well first off... its a tier 4 cruiser... reason: cuz they work better that way... 1x 100mn AB 1x 10mn mwd 5x light neutron you are faster than any inty... you can outrun any "normal" blasterrax... you can outrun missiles... and you will still kill other cruisers pretty fast... so why would you choose the other way? its what we, the playerbase call balance isnt it? Greetings Grim
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:11:00 - [11] It was not meant to be this way, if you seriously think that then you've been eating CCP brand name baby food for too long to distinguish balance from basic mathematical stupidity. Grim: its tier 3. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:11:00 - [12] It was not meant to be this way, if you seriously think that then you've been eating CCP brand name baby food for too long to distinguish balance from basic mathematical stupidity. Grim: its tier 3. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:18:00 - [13] Nice sig digi.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:18:00 - [14] Nice sig digi.
Sc0rpion	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Ithildin I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. 1) Medium blasters track horribly 2) Medium blasters are powergrid hungry (especially neutrons) 3) 1600mm plating 4) Because of #1, DPS is almost the same with lights or mediums "The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously." -Freidrich Nietzche
Sc0rpion	Posted - 2004.11.30 00:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Ithildin I just wonder why so many people run around with 5 Light Neutrons on a tier 3 cruiser. 1) Medium blasters track horribly 2) Medium blasters are powergrid hungry (especially neutrons) 3) 1600mm plating 4) Because of #1, DPS is almost the same with lights or mediums "The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously." -Freidrich Nietzche
Madcap Magician	Posted - 2004.11.30 02:13:00 - [17] Digi, that's how it's supposed to be. I only tell you on teh forums 'cause you bid so high on that Cormack blaster. Good times will always be remembered. Sleep well, old friends.
Madcap Magician	Posted - 2004.11.30 02:13:00 - [18] Digi, that's how it's supposed to be. I only tell you on teh forums 'cause you bid so high on that Cormack blaster. Good times will always be remembered. Sleep well, old friends.
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.30 03:03:00 - [19] Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them...
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.30 03:03:00 - [20] Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them...
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.30 07:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Noriath Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them... yeah thats basically what I said and you're wrong madcap, read the bonus: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. less penalty implies the penalty should be reduced in 5% increments, not the capacitor getting a cap bonus. its just ***ty math and you know it _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf*
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.11.30 07:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Noriath Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them... yeah thats basically what I said and you're wrong madcap, read the bonus: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. less penalty implies the penalty should be reduced in 5% increments, not the capacitor getting a cap bonus. its just ***ty math and you know it _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf*
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.30 10:00:00 - [23] My "question" was not a question. It was a sarcastic statement indicating the Thorax' lack of powergrid (as well as slight lack of CPU), in that it is mostly capable of fitting the weakest guns where other ships fit the second strongest. And no, the DPS is far from the same light neutron versus heavy electron. I rip other Thorax' apart, those who are stupid enough to come near or stupid enough not to fit more than one speed module along with light neutrons. The reason for this is approximatly 50% more damage over time and longer reach. However, this is mostly because I am, just like the rest of my corporation, very fixated with doing damage. The fact that the Thorax performs better, all-round, with frigate turrets indicate strongly that there is something very wrong with balance here. Also, the Thorax bonus, for fairness sake, should be 5 percentage units less nerf and nothing else. Especially now that dual MWD has been removed. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.30 10:00:00 - [24] My "question" was not a question. It was a sarcastic statement indicating the Thorax' lack of powergrid (as well as slight lack of CPU), in that it is mostly capable of fitting the weakest guns where other ships fit the second strongest. And no, the DPS is far from the same light neutron versus heavy electron. I rip other Thorax' apart, those who are stupid enough to come near or stupid enough not to fit more than one speed module along with light neutrons. The reason for this is approximatly 50% more damage over time and longer reach. However, this is mostly because I am, just like the rest of my corporation, very fixated with doing damage. The fact that the Thorax performs better, all-round, with frigate turrets indicate strongly that there is something very wrong with balance here. Also, the Thorax bonus, for fairness sake, should be 5 percentage units less nerf and nothing else. Especially now that dual MWD has been removed. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.11.30 10:38:00 - [25] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Noriath Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them... yeah thats basically what I said and you're wrong madcap, read the bonus: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. less penalty implies the penalty should be reduced in 5% increments, not the capacitor getting a cap bonus. its just **ty math and you know it ...maybe they messed up with the description? ------------------- Quote:** Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.11.30 10:38:00 - [26] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Noriath Awsome signature, but it should be - pants. Anyways, if you reduce something by 25% and then add 25% to the value you get you end up with a 6.25% less then what you started with. Also if you increase something by 25% and then reduce it by 25% the end result is 6.25% smaller then what you started with. That's one of those things in eve that result from not aplying all percent mods to the base number and adding but multiplying them... yeah thats basically what I said and you're wrong madcap, read the bonus: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level and 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. less penalty implies the penalty should be reduced in 5% increments, not the capacitor getting a cap bonus. its just **ty math and you know it ...maybe they messed up with the description? ------------------- Quote:** Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Elithiomel	Posted - 2004.11.30 11:17:00 - [27] The problem is that the skill bonus is being applied to the ship capacitor after the MWD has been fitted. This is why we get the 0.75 1.25 error. The bonus should really be applied to the MWD penalty itself. That would then give us the true 5% per level bonus. --------------------------------------------- Engineers motto; If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
Elithiomel	Posted - 2004.11.30 11:17:00 - [28] The problem is that the skill bonus is being applied to the ship capacitor after the MWD has been fitted. This is why we get the 0.75 1.25 error. The bonus should really be applied to the MWD penalty itself. That would then give us the true 5% per level bonus. --------------------------------------------- Engineers motto; If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.30 11:49:00 - [29] The bonus IS aplied to the MWD penalty itself. It's actually working exactly as intended. I think this is due that CCP was planning on introducing an implant or something which reduces cap penalty on MWDs, too, and you can't have a module that due to penalties and bonuses actually yield a HIGHER capacitor (i.e. a boost instead of nerf) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.11.30 11:49:00 - [30] The bonus IS aplied to the MWD penalty itself. It's actually working exactly as intended. I think this is due that CCP was planning on introducing an implant or something which reduces cap penalty on MWDs, too, and you can't have a module that due to penalties and bonuses actually yield a HIGHER capacitor (i.e. a boost instead of nerf) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.

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