Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 05:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ya so really... mining bot bad... banned...
Lottery bot... no problem? Seems kinda **** up here.
If you want to run a lottery or something... you should need to do it ON YOUR OWN... the thing is every lottery making isk here is automated...
And I'll admit I aint into how they work enough to know how stuff is contracted back, but really if a real live person is not setting up ALLLLLLL these contracts.... I mean really?
Also all the RMT services... sure your going to call and outside serivce for ISK not RMT but does this then mean I may use ISK to buy goods outside the game? If a guy I know wants 2billion for some concert tickets is this legit? How about selling me some tools for isk? I can't give the guy $30 for isk but I can give other things?
Pretty ****** up.
Maybe CCP would like to clear up here how you can sell SOME things for isk and not others and how you can bot SOME parts of the game but not others. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
540
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 05:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Come ban him ISD, he abused my mind.
I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Luis Graca
101
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 05:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
So ... i guess you didn't win |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1142
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 06:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Despite being insane, the OP raises a good point. Surely the scammy spam that floods Jita local can't possibly be people sitting at their keyboard 23.5/7 hammering ctrl-V and enter. |
Bobo Cindekela
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 06:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1
i would prefer that automation be expressly permitted on all fronts, but i dont run this thing You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,-á this is your final warning. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
229
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 06:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sorry you didn't win your Blink. Don't buy tickets you can't afford to lose. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
4016
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 06:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
They're not allowed either and should be reported as bots too. Same goes for the spam bots, only problem with these bots are that they are much easier to recycle.
I reports spambots nearly every day, sadly even the most obvious ones take a while for CCP to remove, and by that time their trial has run out and they made a new account.
/c
|
|
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 09:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dont gamble at any of those sites thanks, the point stands... it is still automated isk making.
The site runs the games, even if the in game pay out is by hand (ya right) the isk making is still botted.
Same goes for the voice servers for isk.
Very simple question... why are people allowed to bot / RMT isk in some ways but not others?
What makes the mining bot so bad it should be banned, but the lottery bot is okay? (again it is MAKING isk by a "bot" running on the website)
Why can you sell RL services (like vent servers) for isk yet I can't pay someone money (paper with value same as a vent server for X a month?)
If someone should be allowed to make a website that runs on it's own, and makes said person isk. Another person should be allowed to bot mining for example.
The mining of the ore is botted. The refine and selling / hauling is not.
The running of the games is scripted. The buying and giving out of prizes (lets say) is not.
Same ****. Automated isk making. But it is CCP allowed automated isk making. |
Adam Junior
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 09:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's no more automated ISK making then say using eve-central to decide where to sell things. The lottery code simply helps you decide who to give the money / stuff - all transactions are done by human beings. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
448
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 09:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
adam smash wrote:I dont gamble at any of those sites thanks, the point stands... it is still automated isk making.
The site runs the games, even if the in game pay out is by hand (ya right) the isk making is still botted.
Same goes for the voice servers for isk.
Very simple question... why are people allowed to bot / RMT isk in some ways but not others?
What makes the mining bot so bad it should be banned, but the lottery bot is okay? (again it is MAKING isk by a "bot" running on the website)
Why can you sell RL services (like vent servers) for isk yet I can't pay someone money (paper with value same as a vent server for X a month?)
If someone should be allowed to make a website that runs on it's own, and makes said person isk. Another person should be allowed to bot mining for example.
The mining of the ore is botted. The refine and selling / hauling is not.
The running of the games is scripted. The buying and giving out of prizes (lets say) is not.
Same ****. Automated isk making. But it is CCP allowed automated isk making.
Today I learned that all of nullsec engages in botting through our forums.
OH MY GOD!
I'M BOTTING RIGHT NOW BY POSTING!
HELP ME!!! Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á |
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
937
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 10:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
adam smash wrote:I dont gamble at any of those sites thanks, the point stands... it is still automated isk making.
The site runs the games, even if the in game pay out is by hand (ya right) the isk making is still botted.
Same goes for the voice servers for isk.
Very simple question... why are people allowed to bot / RMT isk in some ways but not others?
What makes the mining bot so bad it should be banned, but the lottery bot is okay? (again it is MAKING isk by a "bot" running on the website)
Why can you sell RL services (like vent servers) for isk yet I can't pay someone money (paper with value same as a vent server for X a month?)
If someone should be allowed to make a website that runs on it's own, and makes said person isk. Another person should be allowed to bot mining for example.
The mining of the ore is botted. The refine and selling / hauling is not.
The running of the games is scripted. The buying and giving out of prizes (lets say) is not.
Same ****. Automated isk making. But it is CCP allowed automated isk making.
CCP allows certain EVE-related services to be sold for ISK, such as forum signature design, killboards, Teamspeak ect. These are services provided by other people made with external tools and talent, and not automating the game client.
Hope you can understand this difference before adamsmashing your keyboard again. Shiva Furnace - now recruiting solid pilots! |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 10:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
WoW bot = = RMT?
I think not... maybe rethink the whole reason RMT was in that?
All of life is a service for something. Your job it is service for paper that has value. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 11:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:adam smash wrote:I dont gamble at any of those sites thanks, the point stands... it is still automated isk making.
The site runs the games, even if the in game pay out is by hand (ya right) the isk making is still botted.
Same goes for the voice servers for isk.
Very simple question... why are people allowed to bot / RMT isk in some ways but not others?
What makes the mining bot so bad it should be banned, but the lottery bot is okay? (again it is MAKING isk by a "bot" running on the website)
Why can you sell RL services (like vent servers) for isk yet I can't pay someone money (paper with value same as a vent server for X a month?)
If someone should be allowed to make a website that runs on it's own, and makes said person isk. Another person should be allowed to bot mining for example.
The mining of the ore is botted. The refine and selling / hauling is not.
The running of the games is scripted. The buying and giving out of prizes (lets say) is not.
Same ****. Automated isk making. But it is CCP allowed automated isk making. Today I learned that all of nullsec engages in botting through our forums. OH MY GOD! I'M BOTTING RIGHT NOW BY POSTING! HELP ME!!!
Maybe you should learn how to undock. Make a tutorial about it and pass it around. I am sure "Undocking" might help save your space.
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
232
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 13:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating. |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
251
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 21:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't think an external site that runs a lottery counts as botting.
If those sites were using bots to pay out ect in game then you might have a case.
I use excel for industry, it does math for me, am I botting??? I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
117
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 21:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
MYBRAIN!!!!
i want a ban hammer |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 23:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating.
Mass bannings once a year? I didn't realize CCP did that. I thought they constantly banned botters. Or are you a troll?
The Nosy Gamer:-á WoW reeks of fun and playfulness but ensnares players into a deception that spells W*O*R*K. Eve is Icelandic with Calvinist overtones - yet in its straightjacket there is opportunity to find one's own way towards a demeanor of play. One is a fall into an abyss, the other, a rise from one to redemption. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 23:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Patient 2428190 wrote:Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating. Mass bannings once a year? I didn't realize CCP did that. I thought they constantly banned botters. Or are you a troll?
Every year, and usually they do it alphabetically. I think they are coming up on the letter R this year. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 23:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Patient 2428190 wrote:Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating. Mass bannings once a year? I didn't realize CCP did that. I thought they constantly banned botters. Or are you a troll?
He's a troll. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
793
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 23:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
So you got caught botting? And are now trying to justify it, or get the rules changed? Sorry, not happening.
Botting is only automating the client, as that is how you interact with CCP's severs via the client. All the anti-bot language in the EULA is for is to specify how you are allowed to use the client to interact with their server.
That said, a quick reading of the EULA does show how the OP got confused:
"3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."
Nowhere in there does it say this limitation applies only to the client. But to think otherwise would be silly. For example does the EULA mean I cannot automate a task so I can get household chores done sooner, and play eve more? After all that would be using a macro to acquire in-game items faster..... http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 00:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you're talking about lottery services like Somer.Blink and BIG, those are run by players, not by CCP. Its up the 3rd parties in those scenarios to limit automation of their services.
Also hahaha, tell us where the evil ban hammer touched you. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
469
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 01:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:Rosewalker wrote:Patient 2428190 wrote:Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating. Mass bannings once a year? I didn't realize CCP did that. I thought they constantly banned botters. Or are you a troll? He's a troll.
Yeah, but he got everyone going pretty good...I'd say it's worthy of a 5 or 6/10, at least.
In irae, veritas. |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 17:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Why are you people so stupid as to think I botted and got caught rofl.
The point stands of SOMOR and the like is automated isk making.
Excel is not making you isk, it may be a tool to run numbers or see costs but it does not make you isk.
**** like the blink and all is not a TOOL it is a direct way to make isk that is automated.
A computer runs the games, the ONLY player interaction is maybe contracts...
So in this case again, the isk make is automated.
It is no different than botting something and then just putting up the **** on market.
The bot made you the isk the market order just gets the thing with a value sold. |
Danfen Fenix
132
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 17:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Are you so dense as to not understand that somebody giving a person/corp/website ISK via transaction, for whatever purpose, is not botting ?
With most lottery sites, a person is sending ISK to the owners for money for the lottery. This is not botting. Would me sending you ISK as a donation eb botting? If so, why even have the 'send money' option in game?
The isk making is not 'botted', it's made by other people sending ISK to the lottery owners via the provided in game transaction methods.
|
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
169
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 23:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lotteries like somer blink are not breaking the EULA, So you are going to go after Dotlan next/
Alot of fantastic 3rd party services are automated. and provide value to the game.
Miining or spaming bot don't they take up CPU resources and removed a style of play from others, 3 rd party automation side add to eve.
you will never get my support on such an idea. Never!
Next you are going to say I can't use an excel spread sheet to do my mining calculation for my mining ops...
yup no support here!! The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
78
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 00:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Because that kind of botting doesn't exist in CCP's eyes.
It took CCP years to acknowledge people were botting, and it will take them years to figure out that mass banning and parading out their ban master once a year isn't an effective tool to stop cheating.
You evidence for this?
CCP from they one has acknowledged tacitly that botting happens. They of course have to be obscure as to what counter-measures they take because then botters can bypass them.
I think the important issue here is for people to realize that ALL botting cannot be banned, simply because it has become technologically trivial to imitate human player behavior. What CCP can do, and has been doing effectively, is mitigate the most damaging forms of botting, which are those linked to RMT and to automated resource extraction (not just mining, also ratting, ninja salvage bots etc).
Mitigation has been vigorous and all the data shows this.
So I think the botting issue is by now a storm in a teacup. There was a time CCP was messing that up, but no longer so.
Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |
Grandpa Bill
Twin Lakes Retirement Home
258
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 00:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
I run my own raffle and dont have any computer machines do the work fer me. It keeps the mind sharp and is fun in the process. Plus Im learning the whole blog thing and thats kinda fun as well. Enter in -áGrandpa Bill's Offical Raffle/ -áhttp://everaffle.blogspot.com/ |
Agony Etain
Black Thorn Elites of EVE Beacon Light Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 01:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Honestly, most people who are responding to this post have either A) not read it B) are confused or C) are just dumb, no offense.
1 Argument most of you are saying "oh its not botting because the transactions and contracts are through people" That to me is extremely derpy and stupid argument against why using a bot for lottery is ok, and not mining...
Answer this people ------> A bot, to mine, would move your ship, and mine for you... Just like the Bot for Lottery spams the chat, Both of which are allowing the other player to gain something which gives them ISK in the after math.
--------Are you guys following through? If you dont understand this part yet, its ok, re read it a few more times until it sinks in----------
Now what happens? the player comes back, turns off the mining bot, then under his own personal power refines the ore, and sells it on the market, making ISK......... The Lottery botter, turns off the Bot, concludes the Lottery, and hands out the money required.....<---------- Where the crypes is that any different between the two? THERE ISNT ONE.. Different Mechanics yes, but no different in the end. And same exact steps being taken in both instances.
If you were to argue against my point, you'd also in essence be saying that a person using missiles is not actually fighting, because it doesnt go along the same rules as a person using a gun in a fight.... BS.. its still fighting, same steps are being taken, different mechanics..
The OP is asking why CCP doesnt allow Mining Bots, which is NO DIFFERENT than lottery bots. Yet allows Lottery bots....
(Re read the OP's post, including mine a few times until it sinks in)
|
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 01:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
The ones spamming links in local are bots and should be banned.
The webpages and TS servers he's asking about do not automate the eve client, and thus don't fall under the definition of a bot.
People are answering the wrong question because the original question is nonsensical. |
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
78
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 01:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Agony Etain wrote:Honestly, most people who are responding to this post have either A) not read it B) are confused or C) are just dumb, no offense.
1 Argument most of you are saying "oh its not botting because the transactions and contracts are through people" That to me is extremely derpy and stupid argument against why using a bot for lottery is ok, and not mining...
Answer this people ------> A bot, to mine, would move your ship, and mine for you... Just like the Bot for Lottery spams the chat, Both of which are allowing the other player to gain something which gives them ISK in the after math.
--------Are you guys following through? If you dont understand this part yet, its ok, re read it a few more times until it sinks in----------
Now what happens? the player comes back, turns off the mining bot, then under his own personal power refines the ore, and sells it on the market, making ISK......... The Lottery botter, turns off the Bot, concludes the Lottery, and hands out the money required.....<---------- Where the crypes is that any different between the two? THERE ISNT ONE.. Different Mechanics yes, but no different in the end. And same exact steps being taken in both instances.
If you were to argue against my point, you'd also in essence be saying that a person using missiles is not actually fighting, because it doesnt go along the same rules as a person using a gun in a fight.... BS.. its still fighting, same steps are being taken, different mechanics..
The OP is asking why CCP doesnt allow Mining Bots, which is NO DIFFERENT than lottery bots. Yet allows Lottery bots....
(Re read the OP's post, including mine a few times until it sinks in)
Without accepting the premise that all lotteries spam text using automated methods, and without getting technical (ie it is true that chat spaming is botting), I think there is a lack of nuance in making both equivalent.
Mining bots are bad for the game for a lot of reasons but the two main ones are:
1) Primary form of RMT supply
2) Lowers ore/mineral prices, making mining less profitable than it should
Lotteries are sometimes linked to RMT, but they are isk sinks for the most part. The isk they generate are used to fund null warfare and free accounts.
In this sense, without touching negatives, it has two positive effect:
1) Concentrates isk, and frezzes it from the market, allowing for profitable inflation speculation in reasonable timeframes
2) Creates liquidity at the highend which promotes the logistics chain to null - an important part of the game
So, botting on the service of lotteries only disadvantages lotteries that dont bot.
CCP doesn't have unlimited resources, and I would much rather have them prosecute the worse offenders than the less offensive one.
In a real life analogy, I would rather have then seek out the big cartels smuggling drugs, than the people smoking weed in their porch.
That said, they should be more proactive with chat botting, for example, be quicker in response to reporting.
Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |