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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ba'Rumph
Caldari The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2010.03.18 10:28:00 -
[31]
Come on -7-, don't be sore losers. This is just pathetic.
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Major Templar
Caldari KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 10:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mazca Lopez It is not our fault that your allies failed you is it? Your 4-1 odds seemd to be of no concern to you when you came to remove towers in Kamela. And even though we came out guns blazing then you still cried foul. What is it you expect from us?
Well, not claiming victory when ever you do anything at all would be great. Seeing as every little thing that you do that results in a single kill is victory even when behind your crap is the real fights. Like for example now, you sit camping a gate for hours and claim that you had something to do with the invasion and why we are losing our space.
Major Templar Head of Armed Forces Kings Of Eden Sev3rance |
TatooHead
Minmatar KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 11:09:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ba'Rumph Come on -7-, don't be sore losers. This is just pathetic.
1st of all: who are you?
2nd: this isn't a sore loser topic, its a lol look at what concord sent me
I respect -a- and others for bringing a fight as it should be, I am amused by SF deccing us for another "victory" Timing is everything, always try to be fashionably late |
Ba'Rumph
Caldari The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2010.03.18 11:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: TatooHead
1st of all: who are you?
I am someone interested in the situation in Providence.
Originally by: TatooHead
2nd: this isn't a sore loser topic, its a lol look at what concord sent me
Given the amount of tears about blobs and naptrains in the OP as well as veiled threats of vengeance, I'd say this is about as sore loser as a thread gets.
Originally by: TatooHead
I respect -a- and others for bringing a fight as it should be, I am amused by SF deccing us for another "victory"
You don't seem amused. You seem mad.
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TatooHead
Minmatar KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 11:56:00 -
[35]
You couldn't be more wrong Timing is everything, always try to be fashionably late |
Ba'Rumph
Caldari The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2010.03.18 12:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: TatooHead You couldn't be more wrong
Fair enough.
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Mazca Lopez
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 13:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Major Templar Well, not claiming victory when ever you do anything at all would be great. Seeing as every little thing that you do that results in a single kill is victory even when behind your crap is the real fights. Like for example now, you sit camping a gate for hours and claim that you had something to do with the invasion and why we are losing our space.
We didn't claim victory. We declared war. Yes, we do want to shoot you in your ass as you run screaming from your burning house. We were in it for the long haul, but as it turned out, fate and CVAs big heads conspired against you. Was it our little rock hammer that tumbled your fortress? Not really, but it happened and we can live with it. Can you?
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Major Templar
Caldari KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mazca Lopez We didn't claim victory. We declared war. Yes, we do want to shoot you in your ass as you run screaming from your burning house. We were in it for the long haul, but as it turned out, fate and CVAs big heads conspired against you. Was it our little rock hammer that tumbled your fortress? Not really, but it happened and we can live with it. Can you?
I am not running!? Lol, I'm dug in with a minigun screaming and shooting in all directions.
And I am fine with going away from Provi. It's just space in the end and space is everywhere.
And can I ask SF a favor? Next time we come in and stomp all over you and reinforce a tower, DON'T DROP THE DEC!? Your best thing that you always do when you just can't win, you drop a war, again and again. |
Salivan Harddin
Gallente Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:24:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Salivan Harddin on 18/03/2010 15:28:16 Not wishing to intrude on anything going on here, but you seem to have missed the point. The SF guys aren't here to play conventional war with -7-, so dropping war decs to save their assets is a very logical thing to do, since they can always war dec again later on.
SF claimed that their war is to disrupt -7- logistics and industry. Whether they achieved this goal alone or due to circumstance doesn't change the fact they did win since goals were met.
What SF does is pretty much straight forward guerrilla warfare, why should they fight 1 on 1 or even try? I believe -7- has the numeric advantage, even if it is on paper. This is an asymmetrical fighting, and they are not here to follow conventions, but to shoot you and your friends and disrupt your life in null sec. They didn't come here to fight "honorably" or "gentlemanly"!
As for allegations of blobing, well, thats really between you two to sort out, as KBs were not presented from all involved parties and hence can't be reviewed and analyzed (I am too lazy to hunt KBs )
All in all, if -7- does fall SF can claim victory, but not a personal one, nor being a great contributing force (SC did that). You fail to grasp that fulfilling objectives are the requirements to win, not getting better K\D ratio.
All in all I wish the best of luck to both parties and hope that you all enjoy the fighting.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:53:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Melisandre DeVance
Originally by: RifterDrifter Secondly, StarFraction are probably the most r*tarded, deluded, selfimportant pieces of sh*t i've ever seen in EvE and that says a lot.
Bitter goon alt detected.
You don't need to be a goon to think that about SF, and you don't need to be SF to use goon meme's from the time of granpa and granma.
To the severence guy, i hope you guys make a separate campaign vs SF on the KB and kick their asses in it; i don't think this would affect the SF members in any way, since you really must give up any e-self-esteem to join them in the first place and RP ship spinning. |
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:53:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Major Templar Jade, now you know that your figures are a little over blown there.
I don't see how, I'm quoting from your own killboard. You know the campaign you conveniently dropped when you realized you were losing quite badly on the tracking. Its pretty simple. Industrial index suppression (check.) Econominc damage in the pocket (check.) Fleet victories in empire (check). Seriously Major Templar, I don't think we are allowed to link killboards here but I have every confidence that on ours and yours it shows SF consistently superior to Sev3rance in ongoing campaign results.
Then of course we have the Interstellar Correspondents News piece describing the campaign in extremely well-researched and neutral article showing your industrial indexes comprehensively flatlined.
So no mr Templar, I don't think "my figures" are at all overblown.
Quote: ]Why? you might ask, it's simple really. Well firstly, you never engage in a real battle and in fact you sit cloaked or hidden.
The battles of Dital and Kamela seem to speak overwise. Shall I link you the footage of space and freedom IV (again)? In that fight Star Fraction deployed more battleships than Sev3rance did and together with our allies crushed your allies took the field. 2 weeks before we'd broken you in pitched fighting in Dital. These victories were not achieved with cloaked ships.
Quote: To claim any victory and saying that you have defeated or beaten us is like saying, "I walked into your house at night, snuck into your room while you were asleep, and killed you."
We are guerillas. While we have destroyed you in open fights and annihilated your battleship groups we are certainly not going to feel bad about shooting you from a distance in ambushes and traps.
Quote: When we bring out our ships, we are even in numbers and actually attack with the same type, well your forces who are sitting on the Dital gate for example, run, into high sec. Now, this shows that you are not confident in your ability to engage 1 vs 1 against us.
It actually shows that we respect your ability to bring triage carriers to the KBP fight after the battle is joined because (until recently) you were the only side able to operate them behind the cyno jammers. Try to bring your groups in hisec now we have a war dec again and you will find things go differently. Don't try to diminish the advantages of holding sovereignty in 0.0 for rhetorical effect, its a bit sad.
Quote: As of late, you are only coming into KBP when there are U'K or Atlas. This is because you know that you are less likely to run into that RR-BS fleet that we can produce.
I assure you we lost any fear for your RR-BS talents after Dital and Kamela.
Quote: We are talking -7- here, not the Provi blob. Please, bring a real fight and stick around not running and see what happens.
Once you are out of KBP I think we'll have that opportunity. Will be interesting to see if Sev3rance maintains its identity now you are on the road to exile.
Originally by: Major Templar And can I ask SF a favor? Next time we come in and stomp all over you and reinforce a tower, DON'T DROP THE DEC!? Your best thing that you always do when you just can't win, you drop a war, again and again.
I dropped the war before the reinforcement battle of Space and Freedom IV for 2 reasons Major Templar.
1. I wanted to harvest kill-rights and ensure that our allies could get involved in the battle without taking sec hits.
2. I was near-certain your leaders lacked the courage to counterdec.
The wardec function is a tactical tool to be used to the benefit of your friends and detriment of your enemy.
Don't come wringing your hands and begging for help from us. You have complete freedom to wardec us yourselves if you feel its tactically advantageous - don't expect us to make it easy for you.
You can always make it mutual.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Muad' Dib You don't need to be a goon to think that about SF,
Well ignorance helps too of course.
Quote: To the severence guy, i hope you guys make a separate campaign vs SF on the KB and kick their asses in it
They had one. They dropped it when the figures got very embarrassing.
Considering they backdated it 2 months prior to the start of the campaign to include several previous lowsec adventures backed by the Provibloc they were down to 39% efficiency 10billion isk behind, and losing 27-90 on battleship results.
You are cheering for the wrong people here.
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Van PokerAlho
Amarr Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.03.18 16:05:00 -
[43]
If I declare war on some corp and say my goal is to jump to one of their systems and get out of there alive, that does not make me victorious. I just accomplished my objective, my goal, victory is a much bigger concept. Victories are of course measured by how many goals you completed successfully, but in a general way to see it, to claim victory you need to subvert enemy in a given time or permanently.
Is hard to define what is a victory or what is not a victory but disrupting industrial capabilities of an alliance does not look like a victory. |
Salivan Harddin
Gallente Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 16:19:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Salivan Harddin on 18/03/2010 16:19:25 Thats one sort of victory, like you said, victory comes in may variates.
Not all victories are "Stomp on your enemy till his skull caves in" (only some!)
I give you an easy example, 2 corporations are at war, one always beats the other in battle, but the second manages to keep his industrial backbone and thus always replenishes losses. At a simple glance you can claim corp 1 is winning because it keeps having high K\D ratio. But in the long run it losses because as long as the enemy keeps its industrial core intact, it can win by sheer attrition.
It is never easy to define victory, and sure both sides can claim victory, the only thing that does define victory is history, and since it takes years to measure any consequence, even decades and centuries, you can't objectively measure victory in EVE.
What you can do, is just look at the goals both parties set, look at KBs, membership base and member activity and deduce who won by distilling the accumulated data.
Creating a system in EVE that can objectively measure "win" would be a colossus and fascinating endeavor in my eyes, but at this time we are forced to relay on available periphery information and what PR tell us. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 16:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Van PokerAlho If I declare war on some corp and say my goal is to jump to one of their systems and get out of there alive, that does not make me victorious. I just accomplished my objective, my goal, victory is a much bigger concept. Victories are of course measured by how many goals you completed successfully, but in a general way to see it, to claim victory you need to subvert enemy in a given time or permanently.
Thats all very reasonable. I can't disagree at all.
Quote: Is hard to define what is a victory or what is not a victory but disrupting industrial capabilities of an alliance does not look like a victory.
Its a tactic really. Nobody claimed "ULTIMATE VICTORY" on the basis of flatlining industrial indexes, but like the u-boat campaign of ww2 its just one factor in the broader conflict.
In the context of the Star Fraction vs Sev3rance fight I consider the successful defense of the black ops staging towers in Dital to be every bit as significant because that was really Sev3rance's serious push to deny us black ops intervention in the KBP pocket from hisec bases.
The kamela fighting and successful defense of Space and Freedom IV while not as directly linked to the campaign as Dital, was a showpiece fleet battle at showed that Sev3rance (+allies) were not able to match Star Fraction (+allies) in a pitched fight away from the cyno-jammers of Providence.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 16:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Salivan Harddin What you can do, is just look at the goals both parties set, look at KBs, membership base and member activity and deduce who won by distilling the accumulated data. Creating a system in EVE that can objectively measure "win" would be a colossus and fascinating endeavor in my eyes, but at this time we are forced to relay on available periphery information and what PR tell us.
I think its what keeps the game of Eve so fascinating really. The challenge of how to fight and how to measure the results and how to plan a wider campaign. Once all the fighting is over on the Sev3rance/KBP front we'll be able to sit a bit and assess general effectiveness but our strategy here was pretty straightforward.
1. Star Fraction cannot take space from the Sev3rance while Sev are protected by the Provibloc. 2. Star Fraction cannot win a fleet battle in Sev3rance nullsec (given roughly even numbers because Sev have carriers and we do not - gotta love cynojammers) 3. Star Fraction do on the other hand have initiative and choice, we can choose how and where to fight and our challenge is to make the enemy dance to our tune (rather than the other way around.) 4. So the issue becomes how can you drive the enemy to fight on your chosen ground rather than theirs.
Hence the plan. CCP introduced a new sovereignty tracking tool that shows development indexes that can be linked from the forums and used as an objective measure of economic "strength" in an area of space. Regardless of the actual value of this economic measure in isk - its beyond value in propaganda, its a publicly accessible "scoreboard" that if an alliance cannot dominate will embarrass its military. Any 0.0 entity that proudly talks up its power in defense of that space will be shamed if it cannot actually do that and sees its indexes falling due to enemy action.
This is a huge development in the game. Whereas previously it was impossible for a smaller organized force to achieve anything apart from killmails/economic hits on individuals against a sitting territorial power - now we have the ability to show that an organization is failing on a collective level referencing independently-audited and unchallengeable figures from ccp's own site.
We knew this would sting Sev3rance where it hurts - in the pride. So we prepped a campaign that was built entirely around projecting blackops capable strike teams (bombers in the main) from a pair of staging POS in hisec adjacent to the Sev3rance pocket. From this base calibration IV blackops portals could push the strike teams anywhere in the target constellation with zero warning to various agents and supporters carrying covert cyno portals.
To the miners and industrialists (and ratters) it was terrifying. From absolutely nowhere you could have up to a dozen bombers appearing at point blank range on your ship and blowing you to pieces in a volley or two of torps. No surprise then that very soon Sev were trying to escort mining ops of single barges with a half dozen combat ships. But so boring that they usually last 60mins tops then go back to dock, and then we strike again.
The point of all this is to sting the enemy into an unwise counterattack and they only have one target - the staging towers in hisec. When the enemy has been stung enough, we drop a wardec, allow them to move against us at a time and place of our chosing. Dital was one such time, Kamela another.
So the triumph of the tactic (bomber suppression of industrial indexes) was mainly a way to force sev to a) have to admit there is independently audited record of their failure as a holder and b) counterattack to one of our POS towers with our forces on high alert.
Would it have won the war on its own? Who knows. We certainly planned for a campaign of six months not six weeks. We've all been overtaken by events as Providence falls in short order. But it was a good tactic and a sound plan as I think the victories in dital and kamela demonstrate.
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Shadow Bloodtear
Gallente Newfound Freedom Corp Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 17:43:00 -
[47]
The loss of industry rating in the triangle was primarily a personal decision. You can pat yourselves on the back all you want for it, but if you monitored the horizon you'd have noticed we had just moved in slightly further. We let you maintain the illusion that you were in someway claiming a moral victory for disruption... because it kept you away from where we actually were. UK found us eventually, but SF never ventured further than cyno range from empire space. We had a lvl 4.9 index system a few jumps further in, and it was the best mining we've had in over half a year. You may have disrupted neutrals, but not alliance. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 17:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shadow Bloodtear The loss of industry rating in the triangle was primarily a personal decision. You can pat yourselves on the back all you want for it, but if you monitored the horizon you'd have noticed we had just moved in slightly further. We let you maintain the illusion that you were in someway claiming a moral victory for disruption... because it kept you away from where we actually were. UK found us eventually, but SF never ventured further than cyno range from empire space. We had a lvl 4.9 index system a few jumps further in, and it was the best mining we've had in over half a year. You may have disrupted neutrals, but not alliance.
As I said, our campaign was based around seemless black ops injection of raiders into the KBP pocket. That was always our goal and regardless of your reasons for moving away elsewhere into providence it wasn't really our problem. If you got pushed from the pocket to somewhere else where our other allies found you so be it.
The goal of the campaign was to make you react. To force you off balance. And to drive you from behind your prepared defensive positions. Ultimately I think we can both see that is precisely what happened.
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Garst Tyrell
Amarr No.Mercy Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.18 18:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 01:05:41
Why are you faking killmails against your own people and posting them on battleclinic you silly little man?
We don't use that ridiculous site. Any killmails we score go on the Star Fraction killboard. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this topic but I'm not sure it'll make you look anything other than a little bit sad and desperate.
Mails end up battleclinic whether you post them or not because it API pulls. I dont use it either, but all my mails are up there |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.18 19:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Garst Tyrell
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/03/2010 01:05:41
Why are you faking killmails against your own people and posting them on battleclinic you silly little man?
We don't use that ridiculous site. Any killmails we score go on the Star Fraction killboard. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this topic but I'm not sure it'll make you look anything other than a little bit sad and desperate.
Mails end up battleclinic whether you post them or not because it API pulls. I dont use it either, but all my mails are up there
Ah well I didn't know that, but the fact remains it was an obvious fake that had absolutely nothing to do with us. For some reason Tattohead thought it might be funny to try to incriminate SF for "faking" mails without realizing that he did a great disservice to his own alliance making an embarrassment here. Comes to something though doesn't it - when all that is left to a spaceholder is to rant on the forums and post fake mails
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LoveMeLongTiem
Caldari Altless Green Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 20:20:00 -
[51]
Quote: But our killboard is still "healthy" and we will try to keep it that way
in other words .. run and hide. |
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CCP Adida
Gallente C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 21:15:00 -
[52]
cleared trolling posts |
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Vasili Z
Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.03.18 22:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: TatooHead I am posting this so all eve can see what a worthless piece of **** jade and his free captains are
This knowledge is widely acknowledged, thanks for the update though. |
Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.03.18 23:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: TatooHead One thing I can promise to the new "renters" of -7- and Steel space is that you'll have a hell of a time living there in the future
Good stuff. |
Lord DeFault
Minmatar 20th Legion Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.03.19 03:34:00 -
[55]
Sev3rance ganked my assault frigie |
Major Templar
Caldari KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.19 05:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Lord DeFault Sev3rance ganked my assault frigie
2 of them, yes, yes we did. I wish I could post the killmail link of your Vengeance that has 1 x Blaster, 1 x AutoCannon, 1 x Pulse Laser, and 1 x Rocket Launcher. Ah, what an interesting little fitting. Most of all when you tried to take down my Dramiel with it and just couldn't get anywhere with it. Please, bring more of these interesting fits to fight us. We welcome the killmail and loot. |
Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.19 12:13:00 -
[57]
oh god, no, it cant be, we've unleashed the hell of severance ~wolfpax~
we'll regret taking their space
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shanda captison
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.19 14:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Butter Dog oh god, no, it cant be, we've unleashed the hell of severance ~wolfpax~
we'll regret taking their space
I personally cannot wait to start insta lock camps. |
Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.19 14:32:00 -
[59]
instalock camps = ~elitepvp~
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FDXMadcat
Caldari BORG Kollektiv Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.19 15:23:00 -
[60]
Finally you guys made me log in. This is my first and last post in this part of the Forums, because i absolute hate it. Its some kind of another dimension where people spreading around their lies and propaganda without any control.... it makes me sick.
We, as -7-, try to deal with every situation which appears. We try our best to keep together with our friends to become happy in New Eden, doesnt matter what will happen.
We are following the Orders which the HC of -7- gave us.
Those People who are posting bull**** and flamebaits here are ignoring current orders of FuriousPig which is not acceptable. Im speaking to -7-People ONLY. If you think it make the situation better with the **** your doing in here, your not better then those who want to kick into People who are laying already on the ground. Do the best out of the situation and STFU finally. If you dont like the situation, convo me ingame and we can talk about it.
Regards
FDXMadcat
-7-
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