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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.18 17:13:00 -
[1]
I personally do not believe that level 4 missions are broken, but the cries for nerfing them have gotten louder and one can only assume CCP is considering some change.
I think it would be constructive to present ideas and discussions on some of the ways L4 missions can be "balanced" in a way that does not ruin the game and lead to a mass exodus many of subscribers.
I have done my own brainstorming and have a few ideas to toss out. I welcome criticism and look forward to counter ideas. Perhaps we as a player base can be a part of the solution rather than just reacting to what ever CCP and our beloved CSM come up with.
Scaled Rat Bounties Based on Agent System Security
Currently bounties are static in that you get paid the same in bounties no matter what system your mission or agent is located in, but practically every other source of income from missions is based on system security and agent quality. I suggest a scheme that adjust bounties by a certain percent based on the security of the agent giving the mission.
Current rates for bounties will stay the same if missions are done in a system with a rounded security of 0.0 and reduced by 5% with each increase in system security. So if your agent is in 0.5 you get a 25% reduction in bounties compared to current rates
Like wise, mission bounties increase by 5% if offered by an agent in a lower security system. In missions given by an agent in -.4 space (Sydicate for example) the bounties paid will be 20% higher than current rates.( Of course this 5% is a bit arbitrary and can be adjusted if need be.)
Bounties make up a considerable amount of all mission income. Scaling them based on security is in line with the risk vs. reward paradigm.
IMHO this is far less disruptive to the game than moving all l4 agents to low sec.
I have some other ideas on how this might be expanded upon (which also include an option to allow 0.0 land holders to recruit agents in outposts), but I will hold those for later discussion. No need to muddy the focus just yet.
Your comments are welcome.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.03.18 17:44:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Patri Andari in a way that does not ruin the game and lead to a mass exodus many of subscribers.
There will be no mass exodus, they just like to wave that threat around if you so much as talk about the idea that no risk hisec missions shouldn't be the easy mode F1 F2 F3 cash cow they are now. All said, there's no other game like this that will leave for, they will whine all day about how missions being balanced against other risk free hisec activities causes them to suffer in unspeakable ways, but they won't leave. They actually like running the missions, so why would they leave ?
No, they just like to use their numbers as a threat to ensure they retain a disproportionate advantage over the rest of EvE compared to their risk/skill level. |
Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.18 17:54:00 -
[3]
Originally by: lookatzebirdie Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 18/03/2010 17:48:47
Originally by: Patri Andari in a way that does not ruin the game and lead to a mass exodus many of subscribers.
There will be no mass exodus, they just like to wave that threat around if you so much as talk about the idea that no risk hisec missions shouldn't be the easy mode F1 F2 F3 cash cow they are now. All said, there's no other game like this that will leave for, they will whine all day about how missions being balanced against other risk free hisec activities causes them to suffer in unspeakable ways, but they won't leave. They actually like running the missions, so why would they leave ?
No, they just like to use their numbers as a threat to ensure they retain a disproportionate advantage over the rest of EvE compared to their risk/skill level.
EDIT...
also this...
"Current rates for bounties will stay the same if missions are done in a system with a rounded security of 0.0 and reduced by 5% with each increase in system security. So if your agent is in 0.5 you get a 25% reduction in bounties compared to current rates"
...will be meaningless in hisec and only serve to create new mission hubs in 0.5 systems or reinforce existing ones. All Hisec should be flat rate with only losec getting an increase since only losec represents a REAL INCREASE in risk. Unless ofc you intend to make the missions harder (NPCwise) in lower sec systems, but CCP won't bother with that I'm certain
I am offering a suggestion on how to balance. You may not like my suggestion, but do you have your own? Or is it just "Let them eat cake?" |
Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.03.18 18:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: lookatzebirdie Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 18/03/2010 17:52:44 Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 18/03/2010 17:48:47
Originally by: Patri Andari in a way that does not ruin the game and lead to a mass exodus many of subscribers.
There will be no mass exodus, they just like to wave that threat around if you so much as talk about the idea that no risk hisec missions shouldn't be the easy mode F1 F2 F3 cash cow they are now. All said, there's no other game like this that will leave for, they will whine all day about how missions being balanced against other risk free hisec activities causes them to suffer in unspeakable ways, but they won't leave. They actually like running the missions, so why would they leave ?
No, they just like to use their numbers as a threat to ensure they retain a disproportionate advantage over the rest of EvE compared to their risk/skill level.
EDIT...
also this...
"Current rates for bounties will stay the same if missions are done in a system with a rounded security of 0.0 and reduced by 5% with each increase in system security. So if your agent is in 0.5 you get a 25% reduction in bounties compared to current rates"
...will be meaningless in hisec and only serve to create new mission hubs in 0.5 systems or reinforce existing ones. All Hisec should be flat rate with only losec getting an increase since only losec represents a REAL INCREASE in risk. Unless ofc you intend to make the missions harder (NPCwise) in lower sec systems, but CCP won't bother with that I'm certain
2nd EDIT... it also just sounds like a buff as you only talk of bounties increasing, the starting point should be a 10-15% DECREASE in rat bounties in hisec and a 10-15% INCREASE in losec. Mission loot should also be non refinable but higher meta and much less of it.
-no-
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Fish Hunter
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Posted - 2010.03.18 18:12:00 -
[5]
Good idea 0.5 sec should be the baseline Also any ideas on how to accomplish this for npcs that only drop tags? such as concord and gallente rats?
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.18 18:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 18/03/2010 18:17:32
Originally by: lookatzebirdie
2nd EDIT... it also just sounds like a buff as you only talk of bounties increasing, the starting point should be a 10-15% DECREASE in rat bounties in hisec and a 10-15% INCREASE in losec. Mission loot should also be non refinable but higher meta and much less of it.
In the future I suggest you read before commenting. This scheme would reduce current bounties by no less than 25% in a .5 system and even more in higher security.
I appreciate that you may have an agenda, just try to be constructive if possible.
Thanks
edit: If you mean 10-15% per level of security that seems a bit high to me. |
lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.03.18 18:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 18/03/2010 18:43:44
Originally by: Patri Andari Edited by: Patri Andari on 18/03/2010 18:17:32
Originally by: lookatzebirdie
2nd EDIT... it also just sounds like a buff as you only talk of bounties increasing, the starting point should be a 10-15% DECREASE in rat bounties in hisec and a 10-15% INCREASE in losec. Mission loot should also be non refinable but higher meta and much less of it.
In the future I suggest you read before commenting. This scheme would reduce current bounties by no less than 25% in a .5 system and even more in higher security.
I appreciate that you may have an agenda, just try to be constructive if possible.
Thanks
edit: If you mean 10-15% per level of security that seems a bit high to me.
Actually it was 10-15% less total and sorry i missed the 25% part in the original.
In my original post I meant to suggest that a balancing of agent mission bounties will not cause a mass exodus despite the constant crying wolf. It was said in SUPPORT of ur basic premise altho I disagreed with 2 (now 1) details.
I still feel that any variation in bounties in hisec systems is meaningless in terms of risk since the only risk comes from other players and barring the very very rare mission suicide, they only really affect losec. I would say 2 levels would be more appropriate, 1 for hisec and 1 for low.
So long as the idea leads to an INCREASE on current losec mission bounties and a DECREASE on current hisec bounties I can get behind it in some shape or form.
EDIT... and yes ofc course I have an agenda, so do you, why else are you posting in features and ideas ? If you mean HIDDEN agenda then no, I am quite open about wanting hisec missions nerfed in terms of earing potential and vice versa for losec missions |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.03.18 19:13:00 -
[8]
What if instead CCP implemented a new spawn mechanic in which new ships entering mission deadspace are not tied to a single ship being destroyed, but rather something else, like a timer. If you don't kill all the ships in the mission area before the timer runs out, you're sol. More npcs spawn and if you don't do something you'll get killed, forced to warp out.
That way lvl 4 mission runners can't just afk mission, otherwise they'll get overwhelmed.. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.18 21:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jerid Verges What if instead CCP implemented a new spawn mechanic in which new ships entering mission deadspace are not tied to a single ship being destroyed, but rather something else, like a timer. If you don't kill all the ships in the mission area before the timer runs out, you're sol. More npcs spawn and if you don't do something you'll get killed, forced to warp out.
That way lvl 4 mission runners can't just afk mission, otherwise they'll get overwhelmed..
You mean "That way people new to level 4 missions will be overwhelmed while experienced people with permarunning tanks will chain the same lucrative mission for an afternoon", I suppose.
Very bad idea, it is exactly the same as chaining belt rats. Boring and esy to macro. |
Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 21:52:00 -
[10]
Trash current L4 mission design and NPC design. Make NPCs much, much more difficult, much smaller in number, and with more valuable bounties. The end. |
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.19 04:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Trash current L4 mission design and NPC design. Make NPCs much, much more difficult, much smaller in number, and with more valuable bounties. The end.
You have obviously put MUCH thought into your proposals. |
Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.03.20 17:50:00 -
[12]
Bumping for more discussion. Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.03.20 18:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Jerid Verges What if instead CCP implemented a new spawn mechanic in which new ships entering mission deadspace are not tied to a single ship being destroyed, but rather something else, like a timer. If you don't kill all the ships in the mission area before the timer runs out, you're sol. More npcs spawn and if you don't do something you'll get killed, forced to warp out.
That way lvl 4 mission runners can't just afk mission, otherwise they'll get overwhelmed..
You mean "That way people new to level 4 missions will be overwhelmed while experienced people with permarunning tanks will chain the same lucrative mission for an afternoon", I suppose.
Very bad idea, it is exactly the same as chaining belt rats. Boring and esy to macro.
...What? That doesn't make any sense. People new to lvl 4 missions will already not know which npcs trigger the next respawns.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2010.03.20 21:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Fille Balle on 20/03/2010 21:38:40
Originally by: Patri Andari Scaled Rat Bounties Based on Agent System Security
My only comment is: yeah, I like it. Sounds fair, and not game breaking.
Originally by: Evelgrivion Trash current L4 mission design and NPC design. Make NPCs much, much more difficult, much smaller in number, and with more valuable bounties. The end.
That also sounds like a good idea. The two could be put together for maximum benefit imo.
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Miati Leekon
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Posted - 2010.03.21 01:40:00 -
[15]
Since 0.0 already has these structures: upgrades what about having something similar available in empire based on corps, player or npc, standings? The more "experienced" you are the better the rewards.
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2010.03.21 02:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Miati Leekon Since 0.0 already has these structures: upgrades what about having something similar available in empire based on corps, player or npc, standings? The more "experienced" you are the better the rewards.
Sure, if the current baseline profitability of level 4s is the maximum you can achieve under an upgrades system plan; that would work great!
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Ore Bringer
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Posted - 2010.03.21 02:57:00 -
[17]
iv got it...
y dont we just take the bounties away for missions, wow that was easy,
ok so if you do a mission instead of a standard rat bounty, the rats in the mission drop tags, just like the current ones but they all drop tags and varying frigs drop bronze / cruiser drop / palladium / BS's drop gold,diamond....
this would no only stop the overuse of lvl 4's in high sec because at the moment they great for isk because u go in kill everythin leave the loot and get the next mission, this would make the mission runner actually physically loot each reck ( ok so they probably only loot the BS one) but thats ok its still more time looting and it ballances out the isk made,
now the 2nd part of this will also bring bak the criminal tag trade, because atm ur in 0.0 ratting and u get criminal tags aka ( true sansha diamond tag) and you bring it to empire thinking that you could sell that sucker for 20-30mill mwahaha but no no body wont these waist of space items.
agents or agent corperations buy the tags for isk or like the LP store swap tags for items this would also be good for people in 0.0 beacuase they wouldnt need to go to high sec to do missions to get that navy BS, they could just bring all the tags they have gotten (ocationally) remember normal rats still got bounty's and trade in the tags, would still mean ppl doin missions would have more tags and therefore more control over the faction ship/mod trade, but would take them longer time to loot the missions and you would have to loot the missions in order to make profit, either buy selling tags for isk, or saving them and then trading for navy/faction gear, dependant on who your doing missions for....
let me know what you guys thing of this
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2010.03.21 03:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ore Bringer iv got it...
y dont we just take the bounties away for missions, wow that was easy,
ok so if you do a mission instead of a standard rat bounty, the rats in the mission drop tags, just like the current ones but they all drop tags and varying frigs drop bronze / cruiser drop / palladium / BS's drop gold,diamond....
this would no only stop the overuse of lvl 4's in high sec because at the moment they great for isk because u go in kill everythin leave the loot and get the next mission, this would make the mission runner actually physically loot each reck ( ok so they probably only loot the BS one) but thats ok its still more time looting and it ballances out the isk made,
now the 2nd part of this will also bring bak the criminal tag trade, because atm ur in 0.0 ratting and u get criminal tags aka ( true sansha diamond tag) and you bring it to empire thinking that you could sell that sucker for 20-30mill mwahaha but no no body wont these waist of space items.
agents or agent corperations buy the tags for isk or like the LP store swap tags for items this would also be good for people in 0.0 beacuase they wouldnt need to go to high sec to do missions to get that navy BS, they could just bring all the tags they have gotten (ocationally) remember normal rats still got bounty's and trade in the tags, would still mean ppl doin missions would have more tags and therefore more control over the faction ship/mod trade, but would take them longer time to loot the missions and you would have to loot the missions in order to make profit, either buy selling tags for isk, or saving them and then trading for navy/faction gear, dependant on who your doing missions for....
let me know what you guys thing of this
The one problem I have with this is that people would also grab the loot in the wreck, reprocess it, and further exacerbate the problem of a market over-saturated with minerals.
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KaiserSoze434
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Posted - 2010.03.21 04:28:00 -
[19]
I'd say either upgrade the NPCs with an AI similar to Sleepers. It also wouldn't be a horrible idea to drastically reduce or eliminate rat bounties for missions. After all, you're already getting paid to go in there and shoot up the place and you still get the salvage and loot. Unless I get to it first. "Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." |
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