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Xsst
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Posted - 2010.03.27 22:29:00 -
[1]
I'm looking for an approximate EHP an omni tank ship needs to survive a solo suicide gank attempt in hi-sec.
I'm not sure of the gank vessel, but I see a geddon as a current favourite.
I know the security plays a role, so let's say a 0.7 system. Let's also assume the target has very cheap fittings so the gank is purely for grief only.
If there's a table of some sort someone can point me too, with sec/gank vessel/concord response time/multi-gank EHPs needed, that would be perfect.
Would I be wrong in saying something like 12,000EHP for 0.7? based on a geddon with 600dps x 20 second response time?
Thanks in advance.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.27 22:42:00 -
[2]
EHP is irrelevant on suicide gank ships. Once CONCORD locks you up you'll be jammed and neuted dry instantly. The faction navy does show up a few seconds before CONCORD but their DPS isn't going to make any difference.
If you have low security status you'll get a lot more use of sensor boosters and/or sigamps for a faster lock than you will out of any kind of tank.
Most suicide ships fit no tank at all - not even a DC.
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Xsst
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Posted - 2010.03.27 22:45:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Kessiaan
snip
I think you misunderstood, I'm talking about how much EHP the targeet needs to survive the ganker. Maybe I worded it wrong.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.27 22:59:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 27/03/2010 22:59:08
Oh.. my bad.
If you're in an Orca, fit a damage control. It takes the same level of coordination and planning to kill a DC'd Orca as it does a freighter. So most people will go bother the freighter.
If it's a hauler, fit a rack of shield extenders and don't autopilot and you should be OK.
If it's a hulk (which I assume it is), keep in mind that a tank will make you a harder target but the serious suicide squads will just throw more virtually free destroyers at you if you're tanked heavily.
You can get up to about 22K EHP if you drop an MLU for a DC, fit two small extenders and an invuln, and two medium extender rigs. This fit is very resistant to suicide ganks, but like I said, no ship that has to sit still for hours at a time is going to be suicide proof, especially as it doesn't cost anything to just throw more destroyers at it.
Back when I mined a lot I ran the numbers on how much I could mine in a heavily tanked fit verses a lightly tanked fit (two MLUs, 2 small F-S9s, and a V-M15 invuln, no rigs, about 12K EHP) and the difference in mining throughput turned out to be greater than the cost of just sucking up the Hulk losses when they happened and replacing the ship. Of course, suicide ganks were a lot rarer then than they are now, so I'd suggest you do this calculation yourself to see if it's really worth it.
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Xsst
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Posted - 2010.03.27 23:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kessiaan
Edited by: Kessiaan on 27/03/2010 22:59:08
heavily tanked fit verses a lightly tanked fit and the difference in mining throughput turned out to be greater than the cost of just sucking up the Hulk losses when they happened and replacing the ship... so I'd suggest you do this calculation yourself to see if it's really worth it.
Exactly what I'm trying to do.
I've come to the conclusion that fitting for yield and taking the losses is more profitable.
I just looking for a certain threshold, let's say 12kehp, which may prevent most solo gankers, that's if I get get ganked constantly. I don't really want to be losing an MLU, then realising I will just as easily get ganked at 7kehp as at 12kehp.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.27 23:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 27/03/2010 23:41:28
Most cheap suicide Tempests do about 8K volley damage, they'll generally get two shots off before CONCORD gets there. Highsec suicides are less about the DPS and more about the alpha, at least for most ships.
I seriously doubt 12K would be enough. If you can get up to 16K you'll probably be OK. If you have dedicated hauling you can fit two medium core defense extender rigs for not much ISK and they won't affect your throughput at all.
Another thing you can do is keep drones out, set on defensive. A lot of people won't suicide a target with drones out since the suicider will take damage, and thus get a lossmail. Losses to CONCORD don't count on any of the major killboards, but if you aggro them (don't even have to do damage, drones just have to lock and shoot once) your name will show up on the mail which makes it count.
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Xsst
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Posted - 2010.03.28 02:27:00 -
[7]
Great, thanks, so 16k+ is the number if I'm going bother to fit a tank to a hulk.
Interesting point on the drones.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.28 05:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 28/03/2010 06:05:18
Originally by: Xsst
Great, thanks, so 16k+ is the number if I'm going bother to fit a tank to a hulk.
Interesting point on the drones.
My Hulks have survived several player attacks in both hisec and 0.0 w-space. Haven't lost one yet. 20K EHP 13,489 m3 cargo (16,189 m3 with 3x GSC).
Leadership bonuses when fleeted are also helpful (10% shield, 10% armor).
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Ping Bong
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Posted - 2010.03.29 22:11:00 -
[9]
Generally speaking against lone gankers unless you cant fit ~12+k ehp on your lowest resist your better off fitting agility mods, against coordinated gangs your ****ed either way. The best thing you can do to avoid geting popped is to avoid the gankers which means keeping an eye out for scanners/popular gank ships and as a counter use cloak or even a scout. Also ganking just for the sake of ganking is very rare compared to ganking for profit so considering it costs around 10m isk per 10k ehp to gank in hisec you should adapt your paranoia levels accordingly.
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Amberlamps
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Posted - 2010.03.30 01:25:00 -
[10]
Orca = Damage Control II + Reinforced Bulkheads + Stupidly high EHP specifically have Mechanic V for additional HP. I believe it has an extremely high survivability rate in Empire during a gank. You can still keep your Cargo rigs though You dont have any low expanders so in total you don't have much cargo space. Also remember if your holding crap in your corporate hangar they can't see it anyway.
Gank proofing anything else feels to me near impossible. I've some Tempests/Maels rip a freighter apart in seconds.
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