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Che Che
Caldari Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Che Che on 28/03/2010 11:06:01 titans such as erebus/avatar get EHP of up to 100million EHP, where they can log off with 100 man fleet shooting them and survive after 15 minutes aggro as they disappear..
yes amazing isnt it?
whilst I do not argue at the rawr ehp of the titan, my petition is with the LEVI as it has two distinct disadvantages.
a) the maximum EHP it can get is 22mil. b) can only use 7 launchers where as other titans can use 8 turrets. c) the radius of the ship is bigger , you put a 15 titans in a large pos np, you put 1 levi in there everyone gets bounced (go figure).
my petition is simple, make titans simular in EHP, as its clearly unrealistic.
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Flying Swan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:07:00 -
[2]
IT really are lowering standards for recruits aren't they?
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Flying Swan IT really are lowering standards for recruits aren't they?
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SpEciaL WaN
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:35:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Flying Swan IT really are lowering standards for recruits aren't they?
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Grunanca
Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:37:00 -
[5]
It is spelled similar, not simular...
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Ovella
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Flying Swan IT really are lowering standards for recruits aren't they?
Originally by: Che Che yes amazing isnt it?
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:57:00 -
[7]
Moved from General Discussion.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Alt Tabbed
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Posted - 2010.03.28 12:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Che Che Edited by: Che Che on 28/03/2010 11:06:01
my petition is simple, make titans simular in EHP, as its clearly unrealistic.
How exactly is it "clearly unrealistic"? Different factions have different engineers designing their ships. There is more to a ship than hard points and EHP. Can you please expand this idea of yours?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.28 12:10:00 -
[9]
And 7 launchers matters why exactly? How many titans fit 8 guns?
I would more worry about the damage done by them against sub caps.
Avatar shot my mega -> omg who stole my armor
Leviathan shot same mega -> omg there is a scratch on the paint.
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whispous
Gallente NibbleTek The Darwin Award Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.28 12:46:00 -
[10]
Am I missing something? I see levi with 38m EHP WITHOUT any fleet bonuses or officer modules. Also lol, which titan has 8 guns?
Maybe you should do some research, and also learn to use EFT better.
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ExcellciuM
Unknown Research Ventures
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Posted - 2010.03.28 13:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: whispous Am I missing something? I see levi with 38m EHP WITHOUT any fleet bonuses or officer modules. Also lol, which titan has 8 guns?
Maybe you should do some research, and also learn to use EFT better.
You stole my post! I wanted to post that :( ------------
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SuperNova221
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Posted - 2010.03.28 14:23:00 -
[12]
b) was the most ******ed thing you said.
Titan's get 8 high-slots, if fitting purely for damage, *if* they had 8 turret slots, they would still go 7 turrets, 1 DD.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Woe Hole
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:13:00 -
[13]
His point about EHP is irrefutable however, armour tanks are the mainstay of fleet buffers, and they dominate, utterly, in the capital class - thanks to everyone being in a dread these days if they want and implants/implant sets.
The two tanking styles should be different (within reason), but equally usable, not different because one is absolutely sub-par.
CCP do however realise this, as the growth in cap usage (and dps in general) spurred on a significant HP buff many years back, from the days of active tanking caps, to buffer tanking caps.
My solution would be to give crystal sets the same effect as slaves to ships in the capital class only, as the difference between shield and armour tanks in the subcap area does work and provides a lot of versatility, unlike in the (super)capital arena where balance is clearly waaaay off kilter..
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Che Che
Caldari Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: whispous Am I missing something? I see levi with 38m EHP WITHOUT any fleet bonuses or officer modules. Also lol, which titan has 8 guns?
Maybe you should do some research, and also learn to use EFT better.
id love to see that fitting as i tried armour tanking levi too and only got 22mil ehp.
also even if your correct, 38mil ehp still no comparison to 100mil ehp of other titans.
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Aperture Science inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Taua Roqa His point about EHP is irrefutable however, armour tanks are the mainstay of fleet buffers, and they dominate, utterly, in the capital class - thanks to everyone being in a dread these days if they want and implants/implant sets.
The two tanking styles should be different (within reason), but equally usable, not different because one is absolutely sub-par.
CCP do however realise this, as the growth in cap usage (and dps in general) spurred on a significant HP buff many years back, from the days of active tanking caps, to buffer tanking caps.
My solution would be to give crystal sets the same effect as slaves to ships in the capital class only, as the difference between shield and armour tanks in the subcap area does work and provides a lot of versatility, unlike in the (super)capital arena where balance is clearly waaaay off kilter..
This man speaks truth.
The way you have to look at it is this:
-armor tanking has the ability to use a slave set and get sick armor HP bonusses -shield tanking has the ability to use a crystal set and get sick shieldrep bonusses
Now for small/solo PVP shield tanking clearly owns, as you can baffle your opponents 'sure and easy gank' by putting up more tank than they can break before you kill them.
However, once we go the capital route, there comes ONE big problem with the distribution of 'tank' implant sets.
Namely that the slave set still works for cap pilots, but the crystal set doesn't.
Add to this the fact that shield capitals have more tank / less buffer to begin with, and you end up with on the one side armor caps with TONNS of hps but little tank and on the other side shield caps with not-so-much hps but a better tank... but because of no crystal set the tank isn't nearly enough to offset the huge advantage that a buffer has on a ship that needs to be pounded for several minutes by a 100+man fleet.
erebus and avatar are insanely superior to the ragnarok and leviathan in means of survivability, and seeing as all a titan does is 'survive', this makes it unbalanced.
I for one though will not stop training for a ragnarok, as I am sure CCP will EVENTUALLY fix this horrible mistake by either making crystal set work for caps too and/or boosting shield hps __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Che Che
Originally by: whispous Am I missing something? I see levi with 38m EHP WITHOUT any fleet bonuses or officer modules. Also lol, which titan has 8 guns?
Maybe you should do some research, and also learn to use EFT better.
id love to see that fitting as i tried armour tanking levi too and only got 22mil ehp.
also even if your correct, 38mil ehp still no comparison to 100mil ehp of other titans.
you can get it to 38m.... it wont be usable for anything.. but you can get it there... dcu + pds (as many as fit) faction/officer x-type hardners, officer invuls.... (again, as many as fit) 3x shield extender rig t2 and there you are... 38m.... now if all eft warriors are done with their crap... we can get few constructeve posts from pilots with titan experience... |
To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:40:00 -
[17]
-crystal implant set do not work on capital shield booster -make slave do not work for capital armor buffer -problem solved
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whispous
Gallente NibbleTek The Darwin Award Foundation
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Che Che
Originally by: whispous Am I missing something? I see levi with 38m EHP WITHOUT any fleet bonuses or officer modules. Also lol, which titan has 8 guns?
Maybe you should do some research, and also learn to use EFT better.
id love to see that fitting as i tried armour tanking levi too and only got 22mil ehp.
You're still being dumb. How are you getting 100m EHP out of "other" titans? Are you applying loads of perfect gang bonuses, but not applying any to your leviathan? Stop whining and explain yourself. also even if your correct, 38mil ehp still no comparison to 100mil ehp of other titans.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.03.28 15:58:00 -
[19]
8 turrets... lolwut?
yes man i would like 8 turrets on my avatar, but for now I'll have to make to with my 6, in fact the levi has the most weapon hard points with 7 (NERF LEVI!)
but yeah, the lack of ehp is a little silly, not sure what to do about it vOv
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.03.28 17:27:00 -
[20]
a tech 2 fitted levi with no implants or gang bonii is still 25K EHP( no overload)
comparing Levi to Avatar, assuming no officer mods on either fit, no implants, and no gang bonii ( compare like for like)
fit has one damage mod,
Levi - 33M EHP Avatar - 28M EHP
with slaves + akemon's Avatar - 44M EHP
with KVA 2000 Levi - 35M EHP
With command ships in gang ( mind linked damnation for avatar, mindlinked Vulture for levi
Avatar - 51M Levi - 47M
from that ( either my fits are screwed) or the main difference with super caps, comes from the higher drop rate of armor commander mods, and the availbility of deadspace armor omni resistance mods vs non for shield ( ie ENAM's vs Invulns)
with full officer / deadspace mods, no damage mods ( extra CN PDS for levi, Regenerative membrane for avatar) and overload
Levi - 130M EHP Avatar - 98M EHP
ok, the Levi's fit would be stupid expensive, maybe its more the drop rates the need looking at than the ships them-selves?
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SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2010.03.28 17:47:00 -
[21]
Another stupid Levi pilot that has no idea how to fit his ship, or what it can do.
Here is a tip
It has the second best tank in the game, and has the best DPS in the game.
Far as telling you the fit, it wont happen unless you want to pay me lots of isk.
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Robocop
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.03.28 18:19:00 -
[22]
if you rely on "logging off" when people shoot at you, you clearly dont deserve to drive a titan.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2010.03.28 18:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: AnonyTerrorNinja on 28/03/2010 18:55:48 Leviathan:
EHP: 45,954,912 Shield HP: 4,693,070 Shield Resists: 84.6/87.7/90.8/92.3 Shield Active Tanking capacity: 7,076dps/sustained, 13,185dps/burst at 18m33s till empty Shield Passive Tanking capacity: 464.95shield/s passive regen at peak for 4,175dps tanking No implants used to boost shield capacity/regen
Total DPS output: 7,610dps at 153,519volley Has doomsday Drones not factored into dps output No implants used for damage output
Avatar: EHP: 67,157,656 Armor HP: 7,631,066 Armor Resists: 91.1/88.4/86.7/85.8 Has no local tank
DPS Output: 5,140dps Has Doomsday
Has 5x mids open for cap/ewar, has highslot open
Has set of slave implants
Neither ship gets titan bonuses in EFT; I wouldn't know whether this is how it works within the game as well or not. The Leviathan can, if it can get its own bonuses, give +37.5% Shield HP, bringing its total shield HP up to 6,452,971+. The Avatar would need an Erebus in gang to get the same kind of bonus to armor.
Every post I've seen from IT alliance members lately has been progressively more clueless/stupid. Maybe this is why BoB is actually dying, because they have too many idiots that speak before they think and likely do before they think floating about. Somehow, I preferred hating them for being elitist bastards over them being full of buffoons... ---
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.28 20:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 28/03/2010 20:25:05 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 28/03/2010 20:16:39 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 28/03/2010 20:16:23
Originally by: To mare -crystal implant set do not work on capital shield booster -make slave do not work for capital armor buffer -problem solved
This Those armor buffered capitals have way too much hp anyway.
AnonyTerrorNinja just one thing , leviathan shield hp bonuses is only increase the maximum shield hp not the actual so you have to wait hours before its shield reaches the maximum if it gets shield hp bonus. Look at its basic shield recharge time 48000s---> even with fit that is well over hours makes shield hp bonus pointless.
This doesnt happen with armor it gets bonus ehp when it gets gang bonus,+slave set + most capitals armor tank, so there will be more rr armor carriers for support... it is way unbalanced. Something has to be done.
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.03.28 20:17:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Max Tux on 28/03/2010 20:21:00 I thought it was considered pointless fitting a shield booster on supercaps now....
CSB + SBA (tech 2) gives 980 shield a second, and uses 2 slots, and 216 cap/s, even with CN invulns and A-type hardeners, gives a defense of about 10K, you will be having alot more DPS coming at you than that, and really hurts your cap.
edit : takes about 18 minutes to rep the 37.5% shield bonus you get for being in gang...
I would use the slots for Ewar (i hear TP's work well ) or cap recharge if you are too worried about resistance stacking.
Damage is always nice from levi though - get about 2K DPS ( with good skils/implants/modules max is 2350) per launcher :D
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.28 20:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 28/03/2010 20:16:39 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 28/03/2010 20:16:23
Originally by: To mare -crystal implant set do not work on capital shield booster -make slave do not work for capital armor buffer -problem solved
This Those armor buffered capitals have way too much hp anyway.
Arent you the one i never agreed with?
Still true though, the difference is due to slave set, and titans and super carriers would have more reasonable stats without slave set anyway.
Quote: bonii
That isnt a word, and it will never be a word. God just killed a kitten because you said it, and so did I.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Woe Hole
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Posted - 2010.03.28 20:59:00 -
[27]
he said it twice dude, kill another kitten :o
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2010.03.28 21:00:00 -
[28]
Edited by: AnonyTerrorNinja on 28/03/2010 21:00:21 Fair enough, that shield buffer has to be patched up, as opposed to the armor ships that get their bonus immediately, but depending on whether you're staging an offensive or a defense, this can either be a case of it being relevant or not mattering, respectively.
The point is still that the op started this post with somewhat incorrect information wanting a boost of some sort that would cause things to become significantly more unbalanced than people believe they are right now.
That shield regen, although a seemingly small amount, can add a lot of effective HP based on the DPS the ships is taking at any point in time. Ask anyone that has sieged a DG Large tower in empire *without* any hardeners on it, and you'll likely find that it took them significantly longer than the 18 minutes the one poster here claims it would take to regen that 37.5% extra shields (which it would probably take longer to do due to the curve applied to regen).
On the other hand, at 90% averaged resists vs the 12% effective resists a DG large has when you're using energy weapons on it, 100kdps is reduced to 10kdps. At roughly 6.5mil shield hp, that's around 10-11 minutes to take the thing's shields out. That's if it weren't being remote repped by any carriers or other logistics on the field.
3mil on a doomsday? Only 300k damage after those resists; would take 21 doomsdays just to knock straight through the shields in one go, and then the attacking party has to wait 5 minutes before their next volley is available to them. Personally I'd have to say that using the doomsdays on smaller ships (read: carriers, dreads) with inferior resists and smaller buffers that could ultimately pose a larger immediate threat than a titan is a better way to go, which further demonstrates the op's problems of comprehension for application suitability.
"Boohoo a titan can log off and survive when (only) 100 battleships (ships not designed for killing supercaps or titans) are shooting at it! The Leviathan clearly isn't a titan and can't do this (even though it can) and should get a buff!"
I don't know IT/BoB/whatever they want to call themselves now to be trolls, and I also don't know them to let their members go about being idiots on forums either, so I really have to wonder exactly what the hell is going on here. ---
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.03.28 21:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Taua Roqa armour tanks are the mainstay of fleet buffers, and they dominate, utterly, in the capital class - thanks to everyone being in a dread these days if they want and implants/implant sets.
2006 called they want their thanny fleets back.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 22:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
just one thing , leviathan shield hp bonuses is only increase the maximum shield hp not the actual so you have to wait hours before its shield reaches the maximum if it gets shield hp bonus. Look at its basic shield recharge time 48000s---> even with fit that is well over hours makes shield hp bonus pointless.
You are suggesting to have shield tanked capitals wait for passive recharge instead of using their boosters?
Interesting concept...
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