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Decloaking

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Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.03.28 11:45:00 - [1] Please can we stop havng inanimate objects decloak cloaked ships? Players have been using this mechanism to expoit the system for a while now by dropping cans, and it's a bit silly. I know if CCP stops only cans from decloaking ships then the next thing would be secure cans, or wrecks etc. So how about just making all inanimate objects unable to decloak ships? After all, it's not like they have some sort of intelligence able to pick up a weak sig etc. Other ships decloaking you is fine. I've had a couple of close runs with this now myself and I dont think it's reasonable. It's also really annoying in asteroid belts.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Anti Fundie Patrol	Posted - 2010.03.28 11:48:00 - [2] I say we keep it the way it is! Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: FOl2TY8 I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence. Yeah, I use that excuse too.
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.03.28 11:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I say we keep it the way it is! no doubt. General Discussion is, after all, a place where people read posts to disagree with them.
Lucifer's Ghost Minmatar Native Fishfood	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Senghir Please can we stop havng inanimate objects decloak cloaked ships? Players have been using this mechanism to expoit the system for a while now by dropping cans, and it's a bit silly. I know if CCP stops only cans from decloaking ships then the next thing would be secure cans, or wrecks etc. So how about just making all inanimate objects unable to decloak ships? After all, it's not like they have some sort of intelligence able to pick up a weak sig etc. Other ships decloaking you is fine. I've had a couple of close runs with this now myself and I dont think it's reasonable. It's also really annoying in asteroid belts. The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. I would have figured you would have known that as it is Cloaking 101 stuff. -------------------------------------------------- Real Men Pod Tank
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Lucifer's Ghost The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. Can you source this information, or did you just make it up because it seemed like a good way to put words around how the current system operates?
Lucifer's Ghost Minmatar Native Fishfood	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Lucifer's Ghost The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. Can you source this information, or did you just make it up because it seemed like a good way to put words around how the current system operates? Made it up. but it would probably be something similar to what CCP would say. -------------------------------------------------- Real Men Pod Tank
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Lucifer's Ghost Originally by: Senghir Please can we stop havng inanimate objects decloak cloaked ships? Players have been using this mechanism to expoit the system for a while now by dropping cans, and it's a bit silly. I know if CCP stops only cans from decloaking ships then the next thing would be secure cans, or wrecks etc. So how about just making all inanimate objects unable to decloak ships? After all, it's not like they have some sort of intelligence able to pick up a weak sig etc. Other ships decloaking you is fine. I've had a couple of close runs with this now myself and I dont think it's reasonable. It's also really annoying in asteroid belts. The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. I would have figured you would have known that as it is Cloaking 101 stuff. It's Just a GameÖ with fictitious physics. I agree with the OP, having inanimate objects mess up your cloak is just stoopet.
Othran Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.03.28 12:52:00 - [8] As far as I know you are allowed to use ONE can for decloaking purposes on a bubble catchpoint. If the bubble is aligned with more than one celestial/gate you can place another can in the relevant position. Last time I checked I was told that placing cans for decloaking on bubbles was fine, as was the occasional can to decloak people warping at range. What isn't fine (but probably isn't enforced much) is can spam - or more usually abandoned T1 drone spam placed on all the approaches to a gate. As always unaligned bookmarks will get you past these irritations.
Iaoth	Posted - 2010.03.28 13:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Senghir ............much whining by cloaky freak who wants their ship to be an I WIN botton deleted for sanity and brevity........ No.
Carine Parnasse	Posted - 2010.03.28 13:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Lucifer's Ghost The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. This. It makes no sense to assume you are being detected if you come within 2km of a ship, as everyone on the grid can see you, not just the person you got too close to/fleet members/whatever. And since simply getting within 2km of a ship causes your cloak to fail, why would cans not?

Gleabus	Posted - 2010.03.28 14:33:00 - [11] working as intended
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2010.03.28 14:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 28/03/2010 15:00:31 Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Lucifer's Ghost The cloaking device creates a field around your ship, similar to shields, that warps light around your ship in such a manner as to make it invisible. Unlike the shields on a ship however, this field extends outward from your ship about 2000 meters or so. Anything that disrupts the proper flow of the field around your ship such as an inanimate object, causes a Fail Over in your ships database that handles the information coming into and out of your cloaking device... shutting the cloaking device down and thus uncloaking you. Can you source this information, or did you just make it up because it seemed like a good way to put words around how the current system operates? Well he is for the most part right, just might have made up some details. Originally by: Covert Ops Cloak A very specialized piece of technology the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with the covert ops frigate. Although it could theoreticaly work on other ships its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations would overwhelm even the largest standard ship computers. Originally by: GM Horse I've sadly misplaced my magic "find farmers in ravens" button.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.03.28 15:11:00 - [13] As a confirmed cloak-***, I would just like to say NO to this idea. Cloaking is a very powerful tool in ones arsenal, as such it should never be 100% secure. Having to pick your way through a "minefield" of objects in a bubble while comet-tail 'ceptors rush towards you is a thrilling and (when successful) satisfying experience. If you are incapable of doing this then perhaps more practice is reqd. As to that single can on a drag bubble.... Why in hell did you warp directly to a gate/ station etc. in the first place? Bookmarks and/ or celestial objects are your friend, there is no excuse for getting caught in a drag bubble if you are flying cloaky...none. Cloaking, and the methods for dealing with cloakers is working as intended. ---- Originally by:** Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.03.28 15:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Khemul Zula Well he is for the most part right, just might have made up some details. Originally by: Covert Ops Cloak A very specialized piece of technology the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with the covert ops frigate. Although it could theoreticaly work on other ships its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations would overwhelm even the largest standard ship computers. that passage is only talking about fitting the cloak, not about how it works. In any case, even if that's how it works now, CCP have changed the way things work before when making changes, simply by passing it off as an 'advance' in the technology.
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.03.28 15:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Abbot Laarkin Why in hell did you warp directly to a gate/ station etc. in the first place? I didn't. Why do you assume I did? I dont like the mechanic, and since CCP already say that you cant drop lots of cans to stop cloakers, it seems like they dont like it much either. I think the only reason they allow one can drops at the moment is because it's too difficult to police them. It's hard to say "that one can has been left to decloak people" rather than for any other reason. Whereas it's very easy to see where a lot of cans have been placed. All that's required is to make it so that inanimate objects cant decloak ships. Also, dropping cans to deloak is purely a metagame tactic. The ability to drop cargo cans was never designed with the idea of decloaking ships, but rather to store ore and other valuables for later pickup. Therefore, stopping these cans from decloaking ships doesnt "break" the game. If however you want a proper in game mechanism to decloak ships, that is another matter entirely and could be designed. So I guess what I'm saying is that CCP should stop sitting on the fence on this issue. Cans arent meant to be sed for decloaking. If CCP likes this mechanic then they should introduce a proper function to enable this. If not, then they should just get rid of the functionality. Either way, cans shouldnt be able to decloak ships.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:19:00 - [16] It is entirely possible that I missed a Dev post, however I was under the impression that "can-spamming" was not outlawed due to it's effect on cloaked ships, more to stop those people using obscene numbers of cans to lag the hell out of anyone jumping into a camp. I could be wrong on this point, however I've busted through countless camps that were using multiple cans (but not enough to have any noticeable lag effect) to uncloak ships. As far as I am aware none of these camps have drawn GM attention (and I do spend a fair bit of time observing the camp). As far as I can see, the Devs seem happy to leave cans as they are possibly because they are aware that any new mechanic designed to combat cloaks is going to be very unpopular and start one hell of a forum row. Considerable thought/ discussion is going to be needed before such a mechanic is introduced. Until such a mechanic is available I still think cans should be left alone, and the use of them for attempting to decloak someone is perfectly acceptable ( or should be) provided that the number of cans used is not as excessive as has been seen in the past. Cans (and other objects) are a minor irritation at worst, only when used in conjunction with a (very) well set up camp are they a serious threat. Personally I have no problem getting caught by a well set up and effectively run camp, that's what makes Eve special imho. Those who are willing to take the time and make that little extra effort deserve to be successfull. And for the record, I have never lost a cloaked ship to a camp unless I chose to decloak and engage it (for whatever reason). Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe a little over-paranoid ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Abbot Laarkin Cloaking is a very powerful tool in ones arsenal, as such it should never be 100% secure. Decloaking people with cans and things is a very powerful tool in ones aresenal, as such it should never be 100% reliable. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Concord Commodore	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:46:00 - [18] /me points at OP and laughs.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.03.28 18:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Abbot Laarkin Cloaking is a very powerful tool in ones arsenal, as such it should never be 100% secure. Decloaking people with cans and things is a very powerful tool in ones aresenal, as such it should never be 100% reliable. And it's not, isn't balance wonderful Leave cloaks alone, leave cans alone, it's all good. ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.03.28 20:55:00 - [20] Just don't warp on top of objects. Inanimate or not an object the size of a container's going to disrupt your cloak if you come near it. Just be glad drones don't decloak you anymore.

Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.03.28 20:57:00 - [21] You already can't be scanned down or found in any other way. No. You can't have an I WIN button. Stop whining.
Silou Nia	Posted - 2010.03.28 21:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Gladys Pank Just don't warp on top of objects. Inanimate or not an object the size of a container's going to disrupt your cloak if you come near it. Just be glad drones don't decloak you anymore. Drones don't decloak you anymore? You sure about this?
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.03.28 21:12:00 - [23] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 28/03/2010 21:13:06 Originally by: Jerid Verges No. You can't have an I WIN button. Yeah, this one time a guy totally outcloaked my tank and popped me in seconds. It was insane. I never even saw him. If it wasn't for being able to break cloak with cans no one would be safe from the raw power of cloak DPS. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2010.03.28 21:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 28/03/2010 21:13:06 Originally by: Jerid Verges No. You can't have an I WIN button. Yeah, this one time a guy totally outcloaked my tank and popped me in seconds. It was insane. I never even saw him. If it wasn't for being able to break cloak with cans no one would be safe from the raw power of cloak DPS. Hence how a single cloaker can shut down ratting/mining for a whole system...while being AFK. Originally by: GM Horse I've sadly misplaced my magic "find farmers in ravens" button.
Napro Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..	Posted - 2010.03.28 22:42:00 - [25] Signup to be an ISD and you'll get your God Ship All you gotta do is be useless in help chat for an hour or so per day
MrBinary Minmatar Binary Systems	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Napro Signup to be an ISD and you'll get your God Ship All you gotta do is be useless in help chat for an hour or so per day Oh snap! "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Klavix	Posted - 2010.03.29 00:16:00 - [27] Depth charges away! -------------------------------------------------- Earth, It's where I keep all my stuff.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.29 01:31:00 - [28] CCP like game mechanics that cause PVP. Working as intended. Anyway I see nothing wrong with a mechanic that requires some thought to avoid. If it's removed there should be some form of cloak detection available.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare The Ascendent Dominion	Posted - 2010.03.29 06:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Abbot Laarkin It is entirely possible that I missed a Dev post, however I was under the impression that "can-spamming" was not outlawed due to it's effect on cloaked ships, more to stop those people using obscene numbers of cans to lag the hell out of anyone jumping into a camp. ^^ This, read quite a few posts on the subject after i was almost decloaked by cans (came within 2100 meters of a can field). Official response was that using cans and other debris to decloak someone is a valid game mechanic so long as there are not enough cans to cause lag, which would get someone killed. tl;dr - Working as intended, don't change this. -BBK, covert ops pilot
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 06:49:00 - [30] How to completely avoid can spam at bubble camps in your cov ops. Find the most out of the way warp in as you can and then spit out combat probes and set them around the gate in question. Get 100% results on all the ships and then warp at 100km to the one most likely to be out of the bubble or away from the cans. Even if you still get dragged into a bubble the odds are going to be extremely low that you will pop out of warp next to anything capable of decloaking you. Enjoy. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.



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