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Anaxis Muntaine
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Posted - 2010.03.28 14:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Anaxis Muntaine on 28/03/2010 14:07:07 When writing fiction for EVE, I've found that my settings really come alive if I can make them as gritty and realistic as possible. I think EVE lends itself well to writing not about the sterile and clean environments we find in much of 2001: A Space Odyssey, or Star Wars (yes, with exceptions such as Mos Eisley, etc.) or other sci fi universes. Certainly, there is equal room at the table for the sterile environments (being a massive fictional universe, there's plenty of room for everything!), but I personally enjoy those environments that are dank, dark, and dystopian.
Anyway, I wanted to recommend some sci-fi movies that are set in just such environments, and hopefully some of you writers can also suggest some films that fit into this genre?
Blade Runner (this being the ultimate, in my opinion, for showing the darker side of life in the future), Outland (an oft overlooked film - though I think it's great for showing an industrial working/mining colony), the Alien trilogy, The Fifth Element (though, yes, it's a bit corny), Soylent Green, Escape from New York, and Screamers. Now, before you comment about how bad some of these movies might be, please remember that I'm not offering them as brilliant sci-fi - rather, I'm just suggesting that they are worth watching for their use of gritty and unromantic settings.
Does anyone have any films they can recommend for this type of film?
Cheers Tom
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Red Arzender
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.28 14:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Red Arzender on 28/03/2010 14:39:28 If you don't mind humour and parody, watch Star Wreck.
For "serious" movies I'd recommend Das Boot. It's not science fiction, but in my opinion it hits you like a an iron bar trough your head for its atmosphere. But for sci-fi I'd just recommend Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Dune and Starship Troopers.
And if you're okay with Japanese animations, you should watch The Legend of the Galactic Heroes movies and/or the series.
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Akikio Lankinen
Caldari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 16:53:00 -
[3]
Space: Above and Beyond, not a movie but I feel you can draw some parallels with the EVE world, specifically Caldari background. For example the tube child program in Caldari State and the "tanks" in S:AAB.
Plog |
Lucius Vindictus
Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2010.03.28 17:23:00 -
[4]
It has to be your cup of tea, and it may not be as realistic as some of the other sci-fi out there. But I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe. You can't go any grittier than that. There are no movies, but there are plenty of books set in it.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 17:38:00 -
[5]
Babylon 5 should always be mentioned in that list. There story has some light-hearted humour but also several dark story arcs and episodes. Especially from season 2-4.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Elaine Shandrate
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Posted - 2010.03.29 13:44:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Elaine Shandrate on 29/03/2010 13:44:57 Any book by Isaac Asimov seems to be gritty. I'd love to see something like the political war of the 50 planets against Earth. And the 'racism' coming with that...
But then again, not many were filmed (yes, Bicentennial Man... AI and I, Robot were just 'set' in an similar universe. Don't know any others.)
Edit: i completely agree with S:AAB
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.03.29 14:10:00 -
[7]
Agreed to all and especially the last two. Bablyon 5 has a lot of similarities with the EVE universe. The new Battlestar Galactica has some good points, so does an old BBC show called "Blake's Seven."
I can't say enough to recommend Asimov, especially the "Foundation" series. Ignore most of the cheesey movie and read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" (you'll see where Cameron gets his ideas from if you read Heinlein closely).
A "dark" series of books that dovetails very nicely into the EVE universe is Stephen R. Donaldson's "Gap" series. But be warned, those books are not for the faint of heart.
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Rosenoern
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Posted - 2010.03.31 01:12:00 -
[8]
Well if you say "Bladerunner" you have to say "Soldier" since they are set in the same universe...
Other than that i think "Terminator" counts and "Cronicles of riddick"/"Pitch Black" have elements of dark sci-fi too.
I don't know if anime counts but "Ghost in the Shell" definitely deserves a mention. That thing simply reeks of cyberpunk.
I know the "Judge Dredd" movie sucked compared to the comic but wth... Let's get it up here anyway. I already posted "Soldier" ffs :)
"Avatar" would also fit well if we had seen it from the humans side and "12 Monkeys" deserves an honorable mention for being gritty as ****. Even though you don't see much of the future world.
Instead of posting all of these i could of course just make a link and be done with it :/
Some of those aren't futuristic/dystopian as we like them though.
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.03.31 14:43:00 -
[9]
That's the problem with Wikipedia. It's always incomplete!
Great list, but they forgot to mention the movie "The Lathe of Heaven," based on the sory by Ursula K. LeGuinn.
Did we mention the short-lived TV series "Dark Angel" or the Robert Heinlein book "Friday" that was Cameron's inspiration?
Oh, and go read the Heinlein book "Time Enough For Love" if you haven't yet.
And Larry Niven's Ringworld.
And Herrison's "Man-Kzin War" series.
And the Stainless Steel Rat series.
And...
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GregoriusAtlas
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Posted - 2010.04.02 19:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus It has to be your cup of tea, and it may not be as realistic as some of the other sci-fi out there. But I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe. You can't go any grittier than that. There are no movies, but there are plenty of books set in it.
I fully agree . Nothing out there is as dark and yet as hopeful and defiant in the face of insurmountable odds then War 40 K . In other universes humanity finds itself on the brink of annihilation rarely and it is usually a big deal , in War 40 k has already gone through several dark ages and is on th brink of annihilation on a daily basis .
In W 40 k humanity is no pansy ass democratic union like " the Federation " from Star Trek but an Theocratic Empire that makes the Amarr Empire from Eve Universe seem like noble and generous .
Judge Dread would be an ordinary policeman in War 40 k .
Luke Skiwalker would quickly be branded a which and if not burned outright he would be sent as food to the Emperor of Mankind or if luckier be forced to spend his life sending messages across the galaxy eventually having his mind burn out or outright demonic possesion .
I could go on but there is no need , we need more people into War 40 k .
" All those called upon to bear armed who refuse to do so will be shot ! Emperor protects ! "
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Autunite
Caldari Firebird Squadron
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Posted - 2010.04.15 05:26:00 -
[11]
I liked Niven/Pournelle The Mote in Gods Eye I know ring world was already mentioned but I liked the other books in that series also Ender's Game
thats all I can think of right now...
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2010.04.15 06:58:00 -
[12]
Dune.
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silentalleycat
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Posted - 2010.04.15 07:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus It has to be your cup of tea, and it may not be as realistic as some of the other sci-fi out there. But I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe. You can't go any grittier than that. There are no movies, but there are plenty of books set in it.
Another one who agrees on this point, indeed there are no movies yet but plenty of novels, Irecomend dan abnets ' Eisenhorn' trilogy, and from the same author the Gaunts ghost series, you can get lower then this in my opinion
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.04.15 10:01:00 -
[14]
Event Horizon?
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Melkath Bandrom
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Posted - 2010.04.26 15:39:00 -
[15]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzBFuRMCoLU
1992 - Split Second
Rutger Hauer and a very Sexy YOUNG Kim Cattrall! (who gets topless!! imagine THAT...lol) Nice dark gritty dirty futuristic movie. Not the best made or directed but it certainly was gritty. Haven't seen it in 10 years cuz I can't find a DVD copy that dont cost $35US.
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Sanjorel Artabanus
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:19:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sanjorel Artabanus on 27/04/2010 01:19:58 I agree with those mentioned above; I'm not super-up on movies, but I read a lot, and would like to add the following books:
* Philip K. ****s' Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (Blade Runner) * Ursula K. LeGuin's The Dispossessed and The Lathe of Heaven - I personally love anything by her * Anything by Isaac Asimov, especially Foundation series * George Orwell's 1984 * Aldous Huxley's Brave New World * Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 452 * Larry Niven's and Jerry Pournelle's Lucifer's Hammer * Richard Matheson's I Am Legend * P.D.James' Children of Men * William Gibson's Neuromancer * Although I haven't read it yet, I've heard that it is very dark: Yevgeny Zamyatin's We - I intend to read it too
Although not technically science fiction, I thought also that the following novels paint a gritty, stark landscape quite effectively:
* Cormac McCarthy's The Road * Eric Norden's The Ultimate Solution * Mark Lavorato's Veracity
Also - as horrible as this may sound - reading literature regarding especially the Holocaust and **** Germany, may be helpful. One book that I find particularly dark is The Anthology of Holocaust Literature, published by the Jewish Publication Society of America. It's full of short, true-life accounts and descriptions of life in and under the National Socialist government. The accounts are gritty and gruesome - not for the faint of heart - especially in view of the fact that the stories are true.
These are some movies that are also somewhat dark (mind you, I'm not up on movies):
* I Am Legend * 28 Days Later * 28 Weeks Later * The Matrix Series
These are just some of my humble suggestions. I'm sure I've probably missed some that could have added; maybe someone else will get their memories jogged in order to add some more.
SA
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Sanjorel Artabanus
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Posted - 2010.04.27 01:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sanjorel Artabanus
* Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 452
Sorry - that should be Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451
Damn keyboard and fat fingers. Lol.
SA
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Rail J'kar
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Posted - 2010.05.02 06:52:00 -
[18]
You mentioned that Starwars wasn't gritty with the exception of Mos Eisley, I beg to differ. The only place it wasn't gritty were the scenes inside ships where you would expect it to be clean. That film was originally written and depicted as a dark and gritty "futuristic" universe, which was one of the reasons it stood out.
other movies of note:
Planet of the Apes Battlefield Earth Time Machine (i think that's the correct title) the Alien movies (surprised no one else said this) Predator (and sequels) Resident Evil Virus Jurassic Park
I agree with many of the other movies people have mentioned, I was just trying to think of movies that hadn't been mentioned as of yet.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.02 17:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 02/05/2010 17:55:00
Originally by: GregoriusAtlas
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus It has to be your cup of tea, and it may not be as realistic as some of the other sci-fi out there. But I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe. You can't go any grittier than that. There are no movies, but there are plenty of books set in it.
I fully agree . Nothing out there is as dark and yet as hopeful and defiant in the face of insurmountable odds then War 40 K . In other universes humanity finds itself on the brink of annihilation rarely and it is usually a big deal , in War 40 k has already gone through several dark ages and is on th brink of annihilation on a daily basis.
Confirming that 40k is the darkest, grittiest setting in existence (that I know of). It's really fantasy in space rather than sci-fi, but for darkness, it takes the cake. In some settings, like EVE, everything is shades of gray--in 40k, everything is a shade of black.
Oh, and I'd second Pitch Black and Chronicles of riddick. They're pretty gritty.
Also, Blade Runner is probably my favorite movie ever.
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Tyber Zenn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.19 08:25:00 -
[20]
I must agree with what has been said.
And of course W40k is defidently the darkest/grittiest sci-fi universe iv ever been into...and I have read alot of sci-fi. Heck, even the pansy Eldar could make some of the most corrupted vile s****of many other sci-fi worlds whimper in terror.....and they are just bloody space elves with one hell of an agenda!
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Matah Hari
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Posted - 2010.06.23 04:33:00 -
[21]
Someone mentioned P.D.James' Children of Men book. There was a movie made from this book recently (2006) wich I believe is a modern day dystopian masterpiece by Alfonso Cuaron (Great Expectations, Pan's Labyrinth).
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Citizen Yang
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Posted - 2010.06.25 21:46:00 -
[22]
Forever War by Joe Haldeman. The Human Wheel keeps turning...like a mandala, strangely. The Parafaith War, Ethos Effect, and Forever Hero trilogy by L.E. Modesitt Jr., black versus white..or is it? Snowcrash by Neal Stephenson, cyberpunk by any other name. Berserker by Fred Saberhagen, gritty machine versus man battle for survival. Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton, can we kill IT before it kills all of us?
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Allant Doran
Amarr Fraternitas Renatas
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Posted - 2010.06.27 15:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lt Forge Event Horizon?
Beat me to it, but yes i second this suggestion. It's a horror movie but at the same time really feels like they've treated the spaceships involved as 'Real things. You could see it happening one day as far as the technology is concerned.
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Crewman Jenkins
Caldari Malicious Demi-Lancers
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Posted - 2010.06.27 16:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 27/06/2010 16:52:28 I know this is a films thread, but...
Since I just played Metro 2033 and I'm looking for the book, I'll put it in the ring. It's not very futuristic, but it's dark and spooky.
Some of the battletech books could be looked at.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.27 17:55:00 -
[25]
I personally dislike the Warhammer 40k universe, even if it is often quoted because, like others said, it is not Sci-Fi but fantasy in space.
While I accept some technological fantasies like warp drive for storytelling or gameplay reasons, I mostly enjoy Sci-Fi because of the questions they ask. Even EVE raises some questions, about transhumanism, clones, immortality, greed, powerr, corruption, comparisons between re-emerging civilisations and history and so on.
The beauty of EVE is, that it does all these things on a daily basis. There is so much more here then just spaceships and pew pew.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Harima sama
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Posted - 2010.06.28 08:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: silentalleycat
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus It has to be your cup of tea, and it may not be as realistic as some of the other sci-fi out there. But I'm a big fan of the Warhammer 40K universe. You can't go any grittier than that. There are no movies, but there are plenty of books set in it.
Another one who agrees on this point, indeed there are no movies yet but plenty of novels, Irecomend dan abnets ' Eisenhorn' trilogy, and from the same author the Gaunts ghost series, you can get lower then this in my opinion
I thought this as well, though it's now set to change sometime in the future:
http://ultramarinesthemovie.com/
<3 40k
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.06.28 09:53:00 -
[27]
How has no one mentioned David Brin's Earthclan series? Or LeGuin's The Dispossessed?
How? HOW? Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think... |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.06.28 10:11:00 -
[28]
Oh, and another thing, all science fiction is a fantasy, so the fact that 40k is a space fantasy is of little import. It is teh grimdarks, that's what's important. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think... |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.28 12:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Oh, and another thing, all science fiction is a fantasy, so the fact that 40k is a space fantasy is of little import. It is teh grimdarks, that's what's important.
It is Science Fiction without Science, thats why I dislike it.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.06.28 13:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Oh, and another thing, all science fiction is a fantasy, so the fact that 40k is a space fantasy is of little import. It is teh grimdarks, that's what's important.
It is Science Fiction without Science, thats why I dislike it.
Yes, physically modified warriors using artificially created organs has nothing to do with science. A race whose technology is an extended phenotypic effect like a caddis house has nothing to do with science. Ancient civilizations which dead ended with killer robots has nothing to do with science. Faster than light travel, fantasy, totally no basis in science. A hive species from another galaxy that absorbs genetic material as it feasts on worlds, another total fantasy like LotR.
But I don't need the sarcasm, you just defeated your whole argument.
Quote: It is Science Fiction without Science, thats why I dislike it.
Science fiction has just as much to do with real science as fantasy, nothing. If it was a equivalent comparison then it would be just fiction, set in the world we all already live in. But it isn't, it is a fantasy based on what we wish was true, or hope won't happen. You're splitting hairs, and because of that I suspect you of trolling the 40k nerds. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think... |
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.28 21:06:00 -
[31]
Firefly is another good 'verse. it is not as advanced as most(no FTL and people use normal guns). but unless you are rich it really is not the best place to live.
never mind the reavers....
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Evanda Char
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.06.28 21:28:00 -
[32]
Film-wise, Hardware is missing. Also, Kathryn Bigelow's Strange Days.
Notice how I don't mention Jonny Mnemonic because it's a hideous travesty of a superb story and the character of Janey is a pathetic blasphemy against the luminance that is Molly Millions?
The version of Neuromancer currently in development might be worth a look though.
-Eva-
Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.06.29 13:46:00 -
[33]
Mass Effect.
No, really, Mass Effect.
Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 were quite clearly inspired in part by EVE Online and should in turn serve as inspirations for its players. The Mass Effect universe is a brilliant example of a civilization that at first glance looks utopian and shining, but the deeper you push, the more you realise it's merely a flimsy facade over a vast web of deceit, corruption, lies, scandal, racism, greed, tyranny, oppression and selfishness. Put the whole ancient-returning-star-gods-bent-on-genocide thing out of mind for a minute and think about the rest of the setting. Mass Effect 2 in particular showcases just how ugly and brutal the universe likes to pretend it isn't - I think "moral expedience" is a keyword of the setting. Throughout nearly every interaction with a person or situation in both games, Shepard is given a slightly less than traditional moral choice - a choice between what's effective, easy and straightforward ("Renegade") and what's really the right thing to do, even if it makes things more difficult ("Paragon"). Neither Paragon or Renegade directly map to concepts like "good" or "evil" (I think I heard it humorously described as "a choice between pansy and douchebag") but they do represent two vastly differing outlooks on life - Paragon representing "if you can't do it right, don't do it at all" and Renegade representing "the ends will justify the means".
I really don't need to tell you that based on this system, EVE's universe leans very heavily towards "Renegade".
The Mass Effect universe also has some excellent examples of what the architecture and society of various civilizations in EVE might look like:
- The Citadel Presidium in both games and Illium in Mass Effect 2 are excellent examples of the Federation - fanciful, ostentatious architecture full of smooth curves and elegant decoration highlighting a beautiful, shining, apparently perfect society that hides a not-so-perfect undercurrent of corrupt, obstructive bureaucracy and institutionalised apathy and contempt. The Council are a brilliant example of the way the Federation is more concerned with its public image and following obscure protocols than actually doing what's important.
- Noveria in Mass Effect 2 is an almost perfect example of the Caldari - simple, functional architecture with a slight but obvious Asian inspiration. Money is the only thing that really matters, corporations own everything and the bottom line is all-important while morality and ethics are secondary concerns at best. When captain Maeko Matsuo (who looks quite Achuran!) discovers there's geth in Port Hanshan, she's more concerned about an investor panic than the safety of the Port's civilians - very Caldari. Administrator Anoleis is the typical corrupt, obstructive, embezzling corporate executive that Caldari society is riddled with but likes to pretend doesn't exist.
- Pretty much everyone you meet on Beckenstein in the ME2 Kasumi Goto DLC is an example of the kind of shady, rich, self-obsessed private individuals who concern themselves with the politics of all major powers in EVE.
- Omega is a brilliant example of Minmatar architecture - assembled and patched together from just about whatever they can find, dark, irregularly lit, comparitively basic technology and odd, irregular arrangement of rooms and corridors. However, the society on Omega - if you can call it that - is more indicative of life in fringe societies like the Blood Raiders, the Angel Cartel, the Guristas and the Serpentis. It's full of betrayal, murder and deceit, ruled by Mafioso-esque crime lords with their fingers on a thousand strings and all their attendant bodyguards, loyalists, sycophants, hangers-on, enemies and double-agents. The few people actually trying to make it a better place are looked upon with scorn and hatred.
I'm hoping we'll be able to visit places like Earth, Palaven, Thessia and Salaria in Mass Effect 3. -----
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Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.30 13:15:00 -
[34]
I'm not sure I buy Mass Effect as being influenced by Eve -- its pedigree is much older I think, reaching back to 70s/80s/90s SF (which is where Eve pulls a lot of its inspiration from as well, so similarities are not surprising). It is a generally well constructed (and more importantly, consistent) universe though.
No one has mentioned Heavy Gear yet -- the early (pre-Black Talon) Heavy Gear setting was some of the best written and most intricately detailed world building I've read; post-Black Talon, it got a bit weaker, but it's still one of the best settings I've ever read. Anyone seriously looking at developing fiction for a science fiction setting would do well to at least read the old Life on Terra Nova, which stands among the best RPG sourcebooks ever written. The video games were pretty weak in comparison, so don't judge the setting by them (or the cartoon, which was considered to be an entertainment show within the game's continuity).
Cthulhu Rising, if stripped from its more fantastical elements, is another well-written setting I've been lucky enough to have some involvement with -- but it is admittedly very heavily inspired by the same sort of fiction described in this thread, especially Alien/Aliens.
Transhuman Space is also extremely well-written and worth picking up if you can find it.
It occurs to me that none of these are films, but....it appears this thread deviated from that long ago. :) -- CAPT Svetlana Scarlet, Ret.
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Mithrandar
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Posted - 2010.06.30 14:33:00 -
[35]
Cowboy Bebop!!!
if you are ok with jap. animations
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jendendegaus
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Posted - 2010.07.02 06:20:00 -
[36]
Just wanted to say thanks to all those who provided for this thread. Been looking through the forums for the first time this past week and this thread is really great, lots of material to look up on, watch and read. The forums have far too much trolling and griefing.
Thanks again, Fly safe.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.07.02 09:17:00 -
[37]
Mech Warrior, can't believe I left that one out of my rant. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think... |
Esiel
Renegade Serenity
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Posted - 2010.07.04 02:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Esiel on 04/07/2010 02:44:26 How could people miss some of the great Old stuff -
"The Black Hole" "Battlestar Galatica" (old and new versions) "Ice Pirates" (I think it is hillarious others think it is too campy) "Silent Running" "Logan's Run" - shows how dirty and gritty a sterile enviornment can be. "Battle Beyond the Stars" and "Space Raiders" used the exact same ships and came up with two separate movies - both fun in my book. "Flash Gordon" "Battle of the Worlds"
The list could go on and on, I would say there is just as much if not more gritty sci fi movies and stories as there are "clean"
...
Beat the dead horse |
Ipabog
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Posted - 2010.07.04 03:22:00 -
[39]
Moon District 9
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