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Feature freeze for the expansion after Tyrannis.

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Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:39:00 - [1] What say you oh denizens of our fair forums and defenders of the game to no new features for the winter expansion with its entire focus on bug fixes and refining current content. I don't want anything else added to the game with both dust and incarna reaching their final stages of development which will no doubt add arseloads of new problems to be solved and put current issues on the backburner for even longer, What I would love to see is a bunch of sprints to bring new life to old content that badly needs updating like faction war mechanics and the entire cosmos mission system with all its outdated module rewards. Use the winter expansion to fix rockets and make assault frigates worth using past the already stellar jaguar which should be the template for all the rest of the line. Use the time that would be used brainstorming yet moar unfinished content to fix the current imbalance of the pirate frigates that make pretty much the only one of the class worth using is the dram with the poor worm not even being able to compete with t1 frigates. So what say you? New deatures for the winter expansion or a feature freeze to make what we already have fun again? Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Cat o'Ninetails Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:41:00 - [2] hi zeba cat here x
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:45:00 - [3] hi cat zeba here lol could you be a nice kitty and repoast my op with paragraphs please? My ps3 browser hates me. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:46:00 - [4] I'm voting a forum freeze on your accounts.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 07:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Gladys Pank I'm voting a forum freeze on your accounts. Pathetic.. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:05:00 - [6] Wall of text. CCP is already doing this. Empyrean Age added in Faction Warfare so new feature there. Quantum Rise didn't add many new features, mostly server upgrades and stuff, Apocrypha gave us wormholes and t3 while Dominion didn't add anything new, just tried to fix 0.0 and other tweaks. I'd say CCP is already doing one feature heavy expansion and one bug fixing expansion per year which makes sense to me. Stop complaining and HTFU. Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:08:00 - [7] Would be oh so sweet, but will never happen. CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Gladys Pank I'm voting a forum freeze on your accounts. Pathetic.. ♥
Yur mom	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:12:00 - [9] If you pay any attention to patch notes or dev blogs you'd realize that there are upgrades to the server and balancing done with every expansion and patch Just because you're favorite part of the game doesn't run smooth like unicorn farts doesn't mean new content should be frozen CCP employs hundreds of people and not all of them have the job of balancing game mechanics, so it would be ******ed to shut down entire departments In short, qq or give your stuffs up
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Vaal Erit Wall of text. Blame sony for its crappy browser. Feel free to repoast the op with paragraphs if it bothers you so much. Originally by: Vall Erit while Dominion didn't add anything new, just tried to fix 0.0 and other tweaks. Lulz. -10 credibility hit for tht one mate. I would hardly call ripping out the entire sov mechanics and replacing it with a completely new model that was buggy as could be for months as a 'tweak'. Originally by: Vaal Erit I'd say CCP is already doing one feature heavy expansion and one bug fixing expansion per year which makes sense to me. Stop complaining and HTFU. Stop tolling ans read the op. Every single expansion to date has had new features added even if they did focus moar on bugfixes in the one single exception. I'm talking about a complete new feature freeze for one expansion to have ccp focus 100% of its devs on fleshing out old content and fixing the rest. So stop trolling and GTFO of my thread. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:31:00 - [11] In before "LOLOLOL DONT EXPECT MUCH FROM FREE XPANSIONS d00d" And in before in the resulting "OMFG THEY AREN'T FREE" e-rage. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Zeba I would hardly call ripping out the entire sov mechanics and replacing it with a completely new model that was buggy as could be for months as a 'tweak'. Originally by: Zeba I'm talking about a complete new feature freeze for one expansion to have ccp focus 100% of its devs on fleshing out old content and fixing the rest. So stop trolling and GTFO of my thread. So essentially you want badly working stuff to be "fixed" without changing the underlining mechanic, even when that mechanic is the origin of most of the troubles? To make an example the industry part of the game need plenty of fixes, from the UI to differentiating BPO from BPC, but that require changes in the database and changes on how stuff is produced in game (one of the solution is making BPO and BPC really different, but that require that the final item could be produced from 2 BP with different set of ID, something that is not possible at the moment). So a good percentage of the fixes require a "completely new model" for the underlining mechanic. Until that is done you will be simply putting patches over holes, hoping they fit well.
Polaris Lumine Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:37:00 - [13] Edited by: Polaris Lumine on 29/03/2010 08:38:17 Edited by: Polaris Lumine on 29/03/2010 08:37:03 What bugs?
Aera Aiana	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Venkul Mul So essentially you want badly working stuff to be "fixed" without changing the underlining mechanic He/she/it didn't say that. Originally by: Venkul Mul So a good percentage of the fixes require a "completely new model" for the underlining mechanic. That's more like it and pretty much what he wants. But I have a nevergoingtohappen-feeling here...
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Venkul Mul So essentially you want badly working stuff to be "fixed" without changing the underlining mechanic, even when that mechanic is the origin of most of the troubles? Not at all. What I want is for the entire focus of an expansion to fully go over all the stuff that needs fixing so that there are no compromises on time spent competantly fixing current issues over developing new content. Originally by: Venkul Mul To make an example the industry part of the game need plenty of fixes, from the UI to differentiating BPO from BPC, but that require changes in the database and changes on how stuff is produced in game (one of the solution is making BPO and BPC really different, but that require that the final item could be produced from 2 BP with different set of ID, something that is not possible at the moment). So a good percentage of the fixes require a "completely new model" for the underlining mechanic. Until that is done you will be simply putting patches over holes, hoping they fit well. Which is exactly what the current policy of mixing new content with fixing old content achieves. Shoddy patches that break moar than they fix that leave portions of eve unplayable for many of its users as in this expansions massive bone to the rear of the nullsec players. This is leaving us with yet moar unfinished new content and the same problems with the old content only now even moar complicated to fix because they have to factor in how the new content effects the old content. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Zartrader on 29/03/2010 09:16:06 I'd vote for a complete UI rewrite for every element of the game. But in any event it's a different dev team so it won't happen, you can't simply allocate coders to different tasks that easily you have increase or make more effective the existing team. There is no reason stopping other development would make any difference at all. The issue with the code is even with the rewrites it's clearly as clunky as hell, suffers from a mess of badly thought out and patched on modules and CCP seem to be highly resistant to any modernisation or consistency. QA seems to extend only to 'if it kinda works then that's fine' with little consideration to it's actual use or integration with other game elements. This means bugs will be extremely hard to detect in many cases as simple design rules have been thrown out of the window. As the game expands this will be more than a minor annoyance and it's already becoming game breaking for some. CCP does need to bite the bullet and sort it out as soon as they can but doing so will need a change in mindset that is clearly not there.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Zartrader There is no reason stopping other development would make any difference at all. Hrmmm, thank you for this as it points out a flaw in the wording of my op. I am not against ccp developing new content for eve and would not want all new development suspended for the winter expansion as that would do more harm than good as . What I am asking for is that they extend the development cycle for any new content to not be released until after the winter expansion in favor of only doing bug fixes and current content refining instead. We all know new content add bugs that can mess up eve for months so letting the new content perculate for an entire year for a huge well tested and well developed release would be the best of both worlds. Plus if ccp can squash the majority of bugs and faulty game mechanics for the winter expansion then they could go right back to the new content every expansion theme. I'm simply saying its time to get eve in tip top shape for when incarna and dust hits as that will be enough new content to last for a loooong loooooong time to come. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Derus Grobb Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:29:00 - [18] I'd support this! Revisit all of the stuff that you say "we will iterate"... iterate means nothing because it doesn't happen. POSes (dead horse thread), FW mechanics, differentiate the BPO icon (I read the excuse for not doing that and it's not very can-do), redo the corp roles (ditto) and hire some people to fix the UI and sound! Although having said that, going 1 year with no 'new' stuff would probably damage the game. sigh ---
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:34:00 - [19] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/03/2010 09:43:54 I would rather like to see small, rough Dev-Blogs for each of the aged parts of the game and what CCP thinks about their STATE. Because without that the player only knows its own perspective, but not CCPs. - Industry (All fine here or why can't i easily separate BPs by ME lvl?) - Low Sec (All working as intended or why are there so few people?) - POS (Will they ever look and behave like a station instead of a junk-yard in a shield-bubble?) - Mining (AFKers dream or why do we already mine at roid-spawn-points?) - Missions (Why do we already distinct between PVE and PVP fits?) - Bounty System (Why aren't there Bounty Hunters?) - Corp Management (Why is access to corp assets so rigid?) - .. And the basis of all.. - What about the UI? Anyone from UI design at CCP would like to say what they think about it? To sum it up: [WTB] some insight how/where CCP sees the aged parts of he game.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.29 09:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Derus Grobb Although having said that, going 1 year with no 'new' stuff would probably damage the game. sigh Well you see fixing and expanding old content that few people run or have ever ran due to other players saying dont bother with doing x as it sucks would count as 'new' content in my book. A prime example would be overhauling fw mechanics as it could be the banner 'new' feature for the winter expansion just as the new sov overhaul was the banner 'new' feature of dominion. Or simply adding in lots of new missions across the board for those poor souls grinding isk for their alliance. The list goes on for quite a ways in every single eve proffession. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.03.29 11:23:00 - [21] i say push on with hollow content new ideas that are half finished and left to founder till the next big idea that fails to deliver, and hence we have ccp not matching expected growth rates because they dont deliver or focus on the wrong things Comets, remaining pirate mission arcs, more wormhole races and systems as starting points at the time much hoopla have we got them yet ....... no Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.03.29 12:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Gladys Pank I'm voting a forum freeze on your accounts. second Wherever you went - Here you are.
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2010.03.29 12:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Vaal Erit Wall of text. CCP is already doing this. Empyrean Age added in Faction Warfare so new feature there. Quantum Rise didn't add many new features, mostly server upgrades and stuff, Apocrypha gave us wormholes and t3 while Dominion didn't add anything new, just tried to fix 0.0 and other tweaks. I'd say CCP is already doing one feature heavy expansion and one bug fixing expansion per year which makes sense to me. Stop complaining and HTFU. Confirming that the Orca was a bug fix.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare The Ascendent Dominion	Posted - 2010.03.29 15:24:00 - [24] I think you have the right general idea, problem is what is considered "bug fixes and refining current content". IMO POS's are one of the biggest things that need to be fixed, in every manner (access, anchoring/unanchoring, look, you name it). However, there is so much underlying code because apparently they are a core part of the game that this could easily eat up an expansion alone, creating just as much "new" content as Dominion did fixing sov mechanics. Perhaps CCP could setup a poll or something, and get the players top ten responses to what needed to be fixed, with one really big one (like POSs) put in. Spend a lot of time fixing things like sound (what sound?), missile launcher graphics on ships, missing shots, and pathfinding, all of which seem to be common complaints. tldr; I'm all in favor of no new content for fixes, but reality is it's harder to do.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.03.29 15:43:00 - [25] Edited by: el caido on 29/03/2010 15:43:48 Content sells. They cannot make a pretty webpage for their expansion that says 'coming this winter: faction warfare that doesn't suck'. Well, they could ... but ... yeah. I am still waiting for a usable UI, the new HIC models they promised us, the old (or at least better) cyno effect, the contracts system to be polished/finished, dozens of graphical polishes and bug fixes (turret models not aligned to the ship model properly, etc), much needed attention paid to the bounty, kill rights, and insurance paradigm, COSMOS mods and missions polished and given a purpose, drone AI fixed for the 247th time, and faction warfare ... to name a few. Walking in stations, DUST514, Spacebook, and planetary interraction can go to hell, imo.
Zirse Minmatar Integrated Astromechanics Corp.	Posted - 2010.03.29 15:52:00 - [26] Originally by: el caido Edited by: el caido on 29/03/2010 15:43:48 Walking in stations, DUST514, Spacebook, and planetary interraction can go to hell, imo. You said it yourself, content sells. The increased subscriber numbers will hopefully allow CCP to considerably expand their team.
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.29 16:02:00 - [27] Edited by: Nicholas Barker on 29/03/2010 16:04:03 Another thread where we have to inform some pleb that not all of the staff at CCP can be used for bug fixing, and a lot of them would just have to take a paid holiday or would have their deadlines pushed back 6 months on the content they're making so they could laze around if all additional content was removed from an expansion. Then the OP will probably argue with us about how we're all wrong using a bad argument in an attempt to save his dignity, then the thread will die, and later that day or tomorrow a new thread will pop up about the exact same topic (in some rare cases by the same OP). ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Aera Aiana	Posted - 2010.03.29 17:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Nicholas Barker Another thread where we have to inform some pleb that not all of the staff at CCP can be used for bug fixing, That's usually my line... Anyway, I think you're generalizing a bit too much here. Nobody is to stop the art department from continuing to polish those ships and tuning the music while the programmers go back to revisit some historically crappy implementations. And it's not like there'd be nothing to fix from a gamedesign standpoint either. They could for example have a couple of brainstorming sessions about how to cut down on all the exceptions to the rule present in EVE. I think the root of all evil is their fixed release cycle. "It's done when it's done" may be slower, but at this point there's so much halffinished stuff in EVE that a couple of releases following that approach might not be such a bad idea.
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.03.29 18:02:00 - [29] Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 29/03/2010 18:02:37 Apple announced the plans for the Snow Leopard operating system as No New Features. It made for a simple slide Focusing on the infrastructure would be a wise long-term investment. Do the customers, and CCP designers, have a long enough time horizon to make this happen? Probably not. Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/03/2010 09:43:54 I would rather like to see small, rough Dev-Blogs for each of the aged parts of the game and what CCP thinks about their STATE. Because without that the player only knows its own perspective, but not CCPs. - Industry (All fine here or why can't i easily separate BPs by ME lvl?) - Low Sec (All working as intended or why are there so few people?) - POS (Will they ever look and behave like a station instead of a junk-yard in a shield-bubble?) - Mining (AFKers dream or why do we already mine at roid-spawn-points?) - Missions (Why do we already distinct between PVE and PVP fits?) - Bounty System (Why aren't there Bounty Hunters?) - Corp Management (Why is access to corp assets so rigid?) - .. And the basis of all.. - What about the UI? Anyone from UI design at CCP would like to say what they think about it? To sum it up: [WTB] some insight how/where CCP sees the aged parts of he game. Yes. Especially the last one. I could see CCP saying 5 things, all with very different meanings. 1) We hate the UI But cant do much due to the code base 2) We really want to fix the UI but have limited resources but will be working on it every release 3) We know the UI should be fixed, but our customers would much rather for us to spend our time on buffing their ships and nerfing their prey 4) huh? UI is fine. 5) UI is deliberately rough for marketing reasons - makes the game seem more hard core if simple things are inconvenient to do I am not sure which the powers that be in CCP feel.
Kitimortoa	Posted - 2010.03.29 18:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Zeba What say you oh denizens of our fair forums and defenders of the game to no new features for the winter expansion with its entire focus on bug fixes and refining current content. I don't want anything else added to the game with both dust and incarna reaching their final stages of development which will no doubt add arseloads of new problems to be solved and put current issues on the backburner for even longer, What I would love to see is a bunch of sprints to bring new life to old content that badly needs updating like faction war mechanics and the entire cosmos mission system with all its outdated module rewards. Use the winter expansion to fix rockets and make assault frigates worth using past the already stellar jaguar which should be the template for all the rest of the line. Use the time that would be used brainstorming yet moar unfinished content to fix the current imbalance of the pirate frigates that make pretty much the only one of the class worth using is the dram with the poor worm not even being able to compete with t1 frigates. So what say you? New deatures for the winter expansion or a feature freeze to make what we already have fun again? no u

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