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Sanne Allows Caldari 4-25 AVN Regement	Posted - 2010.04.01 16:51:00 - [1] Looking for advice on tax rate for a small corp. We have a few miners and three mission runners. Miners are paying 10% on mins and salvage from wormhole. But, 10% seems unfair if two of the mission runners are the same person. Any ideas?
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.01 17:09:00 - [2] Personally I would like to know where you find people who sacrifice you 10% of their effort. Also, 10% are 10% no matter how many people create the default value. Where do you find them? Why do they stick with you?
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.04.01 17:15:00 - [3] I too, want to find these members who will give me their hard-earned ISK for free. If you, as a corp, have to tax your members, instead of making corp ISK, then the corp is doingitwrong.
Tameris Khan	Posted - 2010.04.01 17:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Swiftgaze Where do you find them? Why do they stick with you? Well they joined a corp formed by someone that can't spell "Regiment", so I'm guessing intelligence is a large factor in this equation. tl;dr: stupid people will part with their isks
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.01 18:15:00 - [5] it wouldn't be hard to find some players willing to pay 10% now that noc corps are at 11%
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.04.01 18:48:00 - [6] Originally by: genette devo it wouldn't be hard to find some players willing to pay 10% now that noc corps are at 11% Doesn't make asking for 10% less bad, though. An industrial corp should be able to make money as its own entity, with the members fairly compensated for their time. The members shouldn't be paying for the privilege of doing stuff that makes them ISK. Also, NPC corps don't tax mining.
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.02 05:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Paknac Queltel Originally by: genette devo it wouldn't be hard to find some players willing to pay 10% now that noc corps are at 11% Doesn't make asking for 10% less bad, though. An industrial corp should be able to make money as its own entity, with the members fairly compensated for their time. The members shouldn't be paying for the privilege of doing stuff that makes them ISK. Also, NPC corps don't tax mining. don't think of it as a tax on mining think of it as a tax on stupidity, there are instances when a tax on mining is perfectly valid, if the corp is providing orca and freighter support, or giving the miners access to greater refine rates than they would have access to on their own a tax is certainly in order, on the other hand if the corp provides nothing to the miners and they pay it....they deserve to lose their isk.
Ky Vatta Majority 12	Posted - 2010.04.02 17:26:00 - [8] A lot of player Corps charge only 5% corp tax, or less... The odds of an EVE player having both a girlfriend and one that plays EVE...well let's just say it's up there with the universe deciding that existence is highly overrated and correcting the mistake
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.02 18:13:00 - [9] We charge our members 10% for two reasons: 1) Paying for skill books for certain skills (i.e. We buy our members skill books for certain skills that we consider to be in demand). 2) Replacing ships lost due to war decs (since during a war dec a lot of our industrial activities are offline). Corporate tax can help smaller corporations provide services for their members they normally couldn't afford, especially when the corp still has that "like new" smell. We've probably reached the point where we could do without it as the corporation now makes a substantial amount of money just in normal operations - habits are harder to break than to form. --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.02 19:34:00 - [10] I have a tax of 0.0% because being in Elysium with Swift is taxing enough. Also, I receive payments from members in more, er, physical ways.
Cambarus The Compass Reloaded	Posted - 2010.04.02 22:27:00 - [11] TBH I don't see what all the hate with regards to a tax is about, especially if it's a wormhole corp. Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? Granted, there are a lot of corps out there who charge taxes when they really shouldn't, but unless the members are pulling in a LOT of isk a 10% cut for the corp really shouldn't be that big a deal... F*cking carebears... As for the OP: Don't just throw on a 10% tax because it's a round number, decide what the tax is actually for an go from there. Is it fueling a POS? Replacing ships? Are you profiting from it personally? If so, do you spend most of your eve time doing stuff to benefit the corp (scanning, refueling etc.) Or are you just saving up isk for a rainy day, should something come up that the corp needs to put money into? These are all things that affect how high you should set the tax. That being said, don't worry about how people with multiple accounts get taxed. If one guy missions with 2 characters and pulls in twice the isk of another similarly skilled pilot there's no reason for him not to pay twice the tax. It's still 10% of his income, his income is just bigger (and really who's going to complain that they make too much money?) Hypothetically, if I were to join your corp, would you be willing to give ME a special tax rate if I can pull in isk twice as fast as any other single character (which given the nature of your question I'm guessing you're a newb corp, so I probably could) Same concept, only the answer is much more apparent.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.04.02 23:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Cambarus TBH I don't see what all the hate with regards to a tax is about, especially if it's a wormhole corp. Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? Granted, there are a lot of corps out there who charge taxes when they really shouldn't, but unless the members are pulling in a LOT of isk a 10% cut for the corp really shouldn't be that big a deal... F*cking carebears... As for the OP: Don't just throw on a 10% tax because it's a round number, decide what the tax is actually for an go from there. Is it fueling a POS? Replacing ships? Are you profiting from it personally? If so, do you spend most of your eve time doing stuff to benefit the corp (scanning, refueling etc.) Or are you just saving up isk for a rainy day, should something come up that the corp needs to put money into? These are all things that affect how high you should set the tax. That being said, don't worry about how people with multiple accounts get taxed. If one guy missions with 2 characters and pulls in twice the isk of another similarly skilled pilot there's no reason for him not to pay twice the tax. It's still 10% of his income, his income is just bigger (and really who's going to complain that they make too much money?) Hypothetically, if I were to join your corp, would you be willing to give ME a special tax rate if I can pull in isk twice as fast as any other single character (which given the nature of your question I'm guessing you're a newb corp, so I probably could) Same concept, only the answer is much more apparent. He's saving up for that shiny navy mega! That's gonna help the corp out so much. Imagine how many new members he'll get when he's waving his HUGE epeen around.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.04.02 23:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Fille Balle on 02/04/2010 23:23:35 Originally by: Swiftgaze Personally I would like to know where you find people who sacrifice you 10% of their effort. Also, 10% are 10% no matter how many people create the default value. Where do you find them? Why do they stick with you? Thank you very much Sir, now there is even less of them. Originally by: De'Veldrin We charge our members 10% for two reasons: 1) Paying for skill books for certain skills (i.e. We buy our members skill books for certain skills that we consider to be in demand). [\quote] Yeah, that's really expensive these days, IF you have a LOT of NEW memebers... Originally by: De'Veldrin 2) Replacing ships lost due to war decs (since during a war dec a lot of our industrial activities are offline). Corporate tax can help smaller corporations provide services for their members they normally couldn't afford, especially when the corp still has that "like new" smell. Very Happy We've probably reached the point where we could do without it as the corporation now makes a substantial amount of money just in normal operations - habits are harder to break than to form. [\quote] Hahaha... yeah... I'm sure that happens a lot. Considerung your forum history, I'm sure that's all you do with your "100% justified "TAX" rate". Ok, IF you read past the last line, I DON'T BUY IT! Originally by: Cambarus TBH I don't see what all the hate with regards to a tax is about, especially if it's a wormhole corp. Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? Granted, there are a lot of corps out there who charge taxes when they really shouldn't, but unless the members are pulling in a LOT of isk a 10% cut for the corp really shouldn't be that big a deal... F*cking carebears... As for the OP: Don't just throw on a 10% tax because it's a round number, decide what the tax is actually for an go from there. Is it fueling a POS? Replacing ships? Are you profiting from it personally? If so, do you spend most of your eve time doing stuff to benefit the corp (scanning, refueling etc.) Or are you just saving up isk for a rainy day, should something come up that the corp needs to put money into? These are all things that affect how high you should set the tax. That being said, don't worry about how people with multiple accounts get taxed. If one guy missions with 2 characters and pulls in twice the isk of another similarly skilled pilot there's no reason for him not to pay twice the tax. It's still 10% of his income, his income is just bigger (and really who's going to complain that they make too much money?) Hypothetically, if I were to join your corp, would you be willing to give ME a special tax rate if I can pull in isk twice as fast as any other single character (which given the nature of your question I'm guessing you're a newb corp, so I probably could) Same concept, only the answer is much more apparent. If a corp provides "SOMETHING", then there should not be any issues. If a a corp provides nothing for the "TAX", then there will be complaints, and my responce is: "qq more idiots". You want taxes, provide something in return. Worked for for me, if it doesn't for you, maybe it's time you started considering jita scams...
Kalanar Wrecking Shots Hostile Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.03 00:50:00 - [14] Frankly, there are several elements to consider when thinking about what tax rates are acceptable in a corporation. Type of Corp: Industrial Corps that hold mining operations for the corp or have other sources of income should have very low tax rates. As a player, you should be contributing to your corp in some fashion, so if you spend time mining or inventing, then the tax rate should be negligibly low. However, if you are in a PvP Corp and you don't really spend time contributing (AKA you go out and fight, but don't earn money for the corp), then tax rates are more acceptable. Services Provided: The second important factor to consider is the services provided by your corp. Theoretically, if your corp was buying everything you needed, then a tax rate around 90% would probably be acceptable; however, since this is hardly ever the case, if a corp is providing replacement ships, extra insurance, skill books, invention slots, production slots, anything that benefits you and NOT the corp, then higher tax rates become much more acceptable. It is all a balance - how much do you contribute versus how much do you receive. You should always probably contribute just barely more than you receive. This is because corps have to pay for public goods - things that you don't believe benefit you directly, but actually do. This is the purpose of a tax. In real life, you don't really see your tax money affecting you, but remember, roads, schools, healthcare, and defense are all (often, depending on country) are paid by the government. So, assume that some of that money needs to go to buying that POS that your mothership is sitting in, even if that doesn't seem like a major service. I would argue that if you have a 10 percent tax rate, you should be returning 7 to 8 percent of that to your membership in terms of goods and services.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.03 01:25:00 - [15] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 03/04/2010 01:28:13 Originally by: Kalanar Services Provided: The second important factor to consider is the services provided by your corp. Theoretically, if your corp was buying everything you needed, then a tax rate around 90% would probably be acceptable And the rest of the cash comes straight ouf of the CEO's wallet? Originally by: Kalanar I would argue that if you have a 10 percent tax rate, you should be returning 7 to 8 percent of that to your membership in terms of goods and services. And the other 2 or 3% go straight into the CEO's wallet? I see you really thought this through and didn't just pull numbers out of your fingers..
Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.04.03 02:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Swiftgaze Where do you find them? Why do they stick with you? I am one. I submit a monthly ore Quota each month as I am a Miner in the corp. In exchange, the corp uses the collected Mins to make stuff and make a profit. At the end of the Month I get a share of the profit made by the corp. Also, after being with them for a bit. I'll get upgraded to a free Hulk. Plus they buy all my ore and salvage for good prices. Sweet deal for me :) Quota is not even that big.
Kallieah	Posted - 2010.04.03 14:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Cambarus Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? When a corp is managed properly by intelligent leadership like AdmiralJohn who runs The Unknown Bar and Pub with 0% tax in Swiftgaze's Elysium. The corp is just GREAT and exists on basically a 0 ISK budget. Morons who give up their time/effort to a CEO when Elysium Alliance and THUNK exists are pretty clueless.
Cambarus The Compass Reloaded	Posted - 2010.04.03 20:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Kallieah Originally by: Cambarus Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? When a corp is managed properly by intelligent leadership like AdmiralJohn who runs The Unknown Bar and Pub with 0% tax in Swiftgaze's Elysium. The corp is just GREAT and exists on basically a 0 ISK budget. Morons who give up their time/effort to a CEO when Elysium Alliance and THUNK exists are pretty clueless. Wow the amount of plugging you guys are doing here is pretty funny If your corp is genuinely run off a 0% tax, then it either doesn't offer you anything that costs isk/time, or your ceo likes giving those things away. When a corp is managed "properly" as you put it, the ceo/leadership have to put in a decent amount of time and effort into things like planning ops, and isk has to be paid for things like POS fuel. If your corp doesn't have a pos and doesn't do ops, what exactly makes it so great? Sounds more like a glorified chat channel to me. If it DOES do ops or it DOES provide things that cost isk, why in the hell wouldn't they tax their members? You may get lucky and find a CEO who's willing to pay out of his own pocked for all the corp expenses (back when I ran a corp I actually did this) but it is in no way unreasonable for a ceo to charge for his time and isk (that's right, I said time as well, if a ceo runs a corp so actively it interferes with his ability to make isk there's no reason not to take a couple % off of the tax for personal use)
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 03:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Cambarus Wow the amount of plugging you guys are doing here is pretty funny If your corp is genuinely run off a 0% tax, then it either doesn't offer you anything that costs isk/time, or your ceo likes giving those things away. When a corp is managed "properly" as you put it, the ceo/leadership have to put in a decent amount of time and effort into things like planning ops, and isk has to be paid for things like POS fuel. If your corp doesn't have a pos and doesn't do ops, what exactly makes it so great? Sounds more like a glorified chat channel to me. If it DOES do ops or it DOES provide things that cost isk, why in the hell wouldn't they tax their members? You may get lucky and find a CEO who's willing to pay out of his own pocked for all the corp expenses (back when I ran a corp I actually did this) but it is in no way unreasonable for a ceo to charge for his time and isk (that's right, I said time as well, if a ceo runs a corp so actively it interferes with his ability to make isk there's no reason not to take a couple % off of the tax for personal use) Since when do you need free stuff to make it a good corp? What do I look like, a cash dispenser / personal secretary? My members know exactly what I expect of them (nothing) and what they will receive from me (nothing). However, we get things done and have a good time doing it. I don't need to baby my members, as I only recruit normal people.
failpirate	Posted - 2010.04.04 04:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Kallieah When a corp is managed properly by intelligent leadership like AdmiralJohn who runs The Unknown Bar and Pub with 0% tax in Swiftgaze's Elysium. The corp is just GREAT and exists on basically a 0 ISK budget. Morons who give up their time/effort to a CEO when Elysium Alliance and THUNK exists are pretty clueless. Did you say The Unknown Bar and Pub is a great corp with 0% tax in Swiftgaze's Elysium?
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 14:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Cambarus Wow the amount of plugging you guys are doing here is pretty funny If your corp is genuinely run off a 0% tax, then it either doesn't offer you anything that costs isk/time, or your ceo likes giving those things away. When a corp is managed "properly" as you put it, the ceo/leadership have to put in a decent amount of time and effort into things like planning ops, and isk has to be paid for things like POS fuel. If your corp doesn't have a pos and doesn't do ops, what exactly makes it so great? Sounds more like a glorified chat channel to me. If it DOES do ops or it DOES provide things that cost isk, why in the hell wouldn't they tax their members? You may get lucky and find a CEO who's willing to pay out of his own pocked for all the corp expenses (back when I ran a corp I actually did this) but it is in no way unreasonable for a ceo to charge for his time and isk (that's right, I said time as well, if a ceo runs a corp so actively it interferes with his ability to make isk there's no reason not to take a couple % off of the tax for personal use) Thanks! Plugging can be very fun if you know how to properly it and the member corps of Elysium Alliance can plug better than anyone else. Really though, it's not reasonable to expect a corp tax at all. In fact, since there are an absurd number of corps out there, all of which contain people who are not nearly as awesome as the people of The Unknown Bar and Pub, my choices are limitless so corp A has generally got nothing to offer better than corp B, C, D, E, F, G ... etc. So therefore, if it charges taxes, it's a failure since its members are dumb enough to think that a redistribution of wealth to the chumps and morons that can't hack it alone is necessary.
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:01:00 - [22] Edited by: Clueless Alt on 04/04/2010 15:02:24 Let's finance corp dread / mom / titan with a 0% taxe / 0isk monthly/weekly tax! Oh wait... And I wrote corp, not personnal asset for the ceo/hq.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Clueless Alt Let's finance corp dread / mom / titan with a 0% taxe / 0% monthly/weekly tax! Oh wait... And I wrote corp, not personnal asset for the ceo/hq. Because obviously if you don't have those, you aren't a corp
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:11:00 - [24] Let's check where I wrote that. Hum, no where? You just must admit that some corps have to get some income to live, or to build project. Corps/ally that just sit idling in empire, like yours, might not need the income, but it's not true for every entity.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:14:00 - [25] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/04/2010 15:16:36 Originally by: Clueless Alt Let's check where I wrote that. Hum, no where? You just must admit that some corps have to get some income to live, or to build project. Corps/ally that just sit idling in empire, like yours, might not need the income, but it's not true for every entity. A good corporation consists of people that voluntarily work together because they found a way to successfully financially interact with each other, instead of forcing themselves into a scheme that they would find nice to be functional, while in reality it just costs time and effort and fills the pockets of "the corp", a.k.a. the CEO. In reality, everything a corp owns is owed to its members, so what exactly does a full corp wallet demonstrate?
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Kallieah Originally by: Cambarus Seriously, since when did it stop costing time and money to run a corp? When a corp is managed properly by intelligent leadership like AdmiralJohn who runs The Unknown Bar and Pub with 0% tax in Swiftgaze's Elysium. The corp is just GREAT and exists on basically a 0 ISK budget. Morons who give up their time/effort to a CEO when Elysium Alliance and THUNK exists are pretty clueless. Hmmmm.... Quote: The alliance don't hold any system. Well, when you do nothing of worth you pay nothing. Thanks for plugging your very interesting and prosperous corp.
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Clueless Alt Let's check where I wrote that. Hum, no where? You just must admit that some corps have to get some income to live, or to build project. Corps/ally that just sit idling in empire, like yours, might not need the income, but it's not true for every entity. This is jealousy. Someone who finds the truth, that a corp/alliance that doesn't care is more successful than one that tries. We have more fun without our pants, thanks. And our player population can take care of itself.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:21:00 - [28] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 04/04/2010 15:21:53 Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Quote: The alliance don't hold any system. Well, when you do nothing of worth you pay nothing. Thanks for plugging your very interesting and prosperous corp. Sorry, I didn't know this game was about owning systems. I shall focus on that more to gain your respect.. oh wait. No lolz actually I don't have a clue who you are and thus don't care.
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Clueless Alt on 04/04/2010 15:21:59 lolilol At least your alliance description (forum trolls) match pretty well. =)
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.04 15:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab snip Thanks for being small-minded, I hope some day you find your way out of that narrow little box you call your brain. I love how playing Eve to fly around wherever is "doing nothing", but logging in to a black screen for "uber leet 0.0 warfare" while breathing loudly into a mic isn't.

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