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Zemsa
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:14:00 -
[1]
Newbie question here:
On a basic character in EVEmon:
- Armor tanking elite: 133 days
- Active shield tanking elite: 251 days
- Passive shield tanking elite: 217 days
Why is there such a big difference between shield and armor in terms of required training time?
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:09:00 -
[2]
There are more shield tanking skills than armor skills.
* Shield Management (rank 3) vs. Hull Upgrades (rank 2)
* Shield Operation (rank 1) vs. Repair Systems (rank 1)
* Shield Compensation (rank 2) vs. no equivalent
* EM Shield Compensation (rank 2) vs. EM Armor Compensation (rank 2)
* Explosive Shield Compensation (rank 2) vs. Explosive Armor Compensation (rank 2)
* Kinetic Shield Compensation (rank 2) vs. Kinetic Armor Compensation (rank 2)
* Thermal Shield Compensation (rank 2) vs. Thermal Armor Compensation (rank 2)
* Tactical Shield Manipulation (rank 4) vs. no equivalent
* Shield Upgrades (rank 2) vs. Hull Upgrades (rank 2)
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Takseen on 05/04/2010 20:12:38
Edited by: Takseen on 05/04/2010 20:12:08
If I had to guess its because there's no "increase passive armor regeneration" skills. There's also no armor equivalent of Tactical Shield Manipulation(stopping shield damage bleeding into armor at low shield %)
Oh, and Shield tanking certs require Energy grid upgrades(for shield power relays) that the Armor cert doesn't need. And the Shield cert needs Hull Upgrades(for ??) too for some reason.
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Zemsa
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:35:00 -
[4]
Does it mean that shield tanking is better than armor tanking, comparing both fully skilled? From what I've seen so far, armor tanking is used more often. How does the (considerable amount of) extra time balance out in-game?
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Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:42:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Zemsa
Does it mean that shield tanking is better than armor tanking, comparing both fully skilled? From what I've seen so far, armor tanking is used more often. How does the (considerable amount of) extra time balance out in-game?
It doesn't really mean anything except that CCP introduced more shield tanking skills than armor tanking skills.
And yes, armor tanking is used more often, but it all depends on the situation. Also, there are less races that can effectively shield tank than there are that can armor tank. That might have something to do with it as well.
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Zemsa
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:49:00 -
[6]
It just seems a little unfair then, having to spend a lot more time to get the same result.
(Guess I should aim for armor tanking instead; I kinda liked shields though.)
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:31:00 -
[7]
Don't go for Elite certificates, that cuts the time needed by 80% or thereabouts.
Originally by: Zemsa
It just seems a little unfair then, having to spend a lot more time to get the same result.
(Guess I should aim for armor tanking instead; I kinda liked shields though.)
It's not the 'same result'. Using training time as a reason to choose between armour and shield tanking is kinda weird, since there are many meaningful differences (training time is not) between the types of tanking. Armour and shield tanking suit different ships and different situations, you should make a choice based on that.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zemsa
It just seems a little unfair then, having to spend a lot more time to get the same result.
To expand on what Estel Arador said: it's not the "same result"… or, rather, there is no result.
Certificates don't give you anything but themselves. They are simply a measure of how completely you've covered the skills involved in a particular area – they tell you nothing about what this actually means and what you can do with those skills in terms of outfitting your ship or improving its capabilities.
As it happens, "completely covering" active shield tanking is a far more complicated process, skill-wise, than completely covering active armour… but you achieve that "same result" you're talking about with a very much equivalent skill sets no matter which way you go. Shield tanking just gives you more than that, once the "same result" has been achieved (such as not bleeding into armour when your shield is low, or improving your regen speed). Going for the elite cert means you also have to cover that additional extra that goes beyond what the equivalent armour tanking skills will give you.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
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Cunane
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Posted - 2010.04.06 00:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cunane on 06/04/2010 00:46:58
Armour tanking if you don't go for the Elite Cert is faster still (as Estel pointed out) and will be more than enough
Repair Systems lv5 - 7 days (Based roughly on the average lower skilled/implanted player)
Hull Upgrades lv5 - 14 days
Mechanic lv5 - 7 days
Therm Comp lv4 - 3 days
Explo. Comp lv4 - 3 days
Kin. Comp lv4 - 3 days
EM Comp lv4 - 3 days
There you go in 40 days you have all the personal armour tanking skills you can need, full t2 mods and decent passive bonuses :D
Shield takes longer but has its own bonuses, namely it can rep harder with XL boosters and Amps, has better catch all hardeners, and can passively recharge, so naturally it has a few more skills to hit.
Personally i'm an armour tanking fan, I've never been a fan of shields
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Charles Park
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Posted - 2010.04.06 11:34:00 -
[10]
Certificates are a good place to start but you have to be carefull about using them as a complete training guide, lest you 'waste' a lot of training time. For example, on the shield tanking certs:
-The shield comp skills are pretty useless unless you plan on using the passive resistance mods. Training them to 5, especially all of them, is not really necessary
-Tactical shield manipulation, whether is helps or hurts your passive shield tank (see other thread in this forum) is rather pointless to train to 5
Really, to be a good shield tanker you only need Shield Reinforcement Standard, Passive Shield Tanking Improved, and Active Shield Tanking Improved (though shield upgrades, management, and compensation are worth taking to 5). Not maxing out the less than usefull skills shaves at least 50 days off of your number (50 days is with implants/learning skills).
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2010.04.06 12:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Charles Park
Certificates are a good place to start but you have to be carefull about using them as a complete training guide, lest you 'waste' a lot of training time.
That's it pretty much, personally none of my chars has ever used the certificates as reference in all their years of training.
Eve likes to make the mechanics diverse, two good examples are shield!=armor and guns!=missiles.
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