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Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.04.07 09:55:00 - [1] Edited by: Denuo Secus on 07/04/2010 10:03:16 Another thread inspired me to review the two tanking techniques. I'm not happy with the "armor tank it!-crowd". I had my own experences with this "trend" because I fly mostly Caldari atm. I hope I can bring some arguments against it. Armor, not shield, is niche: - One of the best snipers (Rokh) is a shield tank, the others should work quite good with shield buffer (max gank) - One if the heftiest damage dealer against BSs and above (torp Raven): shield buffer - The ewar BS (Scorp) is a shield buffered BS - Most of the recons fit shield buffers - The two considered as best HICs (Onyx, Broadsword) are shield tanked - All sniper HACs are very solid (only usable?) when fitted with a shield buffer, even the Zealot - A very solid BC (Drake) is a "capable" shield buffer - most others are good with shield (Cane, Myrm, Brutix). - If stealth bombers fit a "tank", they don't fit a plate - 50% of the capital fleet in game is/can shield tank - 75% of all carriers can shield RR To summ it up, 3 of 4 races can/do shield tank/buffer. Caldari obviously. Minmatar and Gallante are capable shield buffers. Not only because of their slot layout. Minmatar has even an active tank bonus for it. And when it comes to active tanking shield tank excels (implants, slot usage, timing of the rep effect, cap efficiency). A short view to the forums shows the Gallente active armor bonus is considered more or less as "niche" -> triple rep Myrm and such... But especially blaster ships are nice with shield buffer. Most ships below BS are very good as shield buffer - even the golden ones. Because of the naturally limited slot amount maximizing tank and gank by maintaining mobility is possible only with shield tank. One of the exeptions where armor tanks really excel is solo PvP, med slots are needed for tackling here. But even in small gangs there are specialists for it. The other exception is equal RR (without logistics). But that's only because of broken and unfitable shield RR. I bet if shield RR could be fitted without gimping the whole ship they would be far mor common. Seeing all that...armor seems more like the exeption tbh ^^ Thoughts support or constructive critique is appreciated. Trolling will be ignored - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
SuperNova221 Ragnarok Rising THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.04.07 10:09:00 - [2] Get one of your Torp Raven's or Blaster Rokh's and try join your alliance's BS gang. Also, you claim that one of the best snipers are shield tanked, but THE best sniper is armour. For capitals. All Amarr ones armour tank (4) all Gallente ones armour tank (8) 2, arguably 3 Min ones armour tank (10) so 10 out of 16 Capitals are armour tanked so that's not 50%, where did you get 50% from? Also look on actual killboards and you will find that the shield tanked Capitals are far less common. So it's far from 50% of capitals. 3/4 of the carriers get a shield RR bonus that's correct, but only 1 of them shield tanks. Nearly all your "points" are just "This ship can, if the pilot wants to, fit a shield buffer on it" Also, what's the point of this thread? Everybody who isn't ignorant with their head up their own arse knows that shield and armour tanks are both viable on a large range of ships. With active shield tank usually being what people pick at due to needing a lot of mid slots which are needed for MWD, scram, web etc.
Kendon Riddick	Posted - 2010.04.07 10:21:00 - [3] Edited by: Kendon riddick on 07/04/2010 10:21:11 Originally by: SuperNova221 what's the point of this thread? quoted in the hope the guy who started the thread can get to the piont. EDIT: I love lamp.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.04.07 10:24:00 - [4] Originally by: SuperNova221 ...what's the point of this thread? .. This is the point of my thread: Originally by: SuperNova221 Get one of your Torp Raven's or Blaster Rokh's and try join your alliance's BS gang... Then Originally by: SuperNova221 Also, you claim that one of the best snipers are shield tanked, but THE best sniper is armour. Thats why I said "one of the best". Originally by: SuperNova221 For capitals. All Amarr ones armour tank (4) all Gallente ones armour tank (8) 2, arguably 3 Min ones armour tank (10) so 10 out of 16 Capitals are armour tanked so that's not 50%, where did you get 50% from? .. Yip, my bad. I considered all Minmatar as shield... Originally by: SuperNova221 Nearly all your "points" are just "This ship can, if the pilot wants to, fit a shield buffer on it" No, my point is most ships are equal or better with shield tank. Point if this thread is lobbying for (from my own experience) far to less common shield fleets :P - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
SuperNova221 Ragnarok Rising THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.04.07 10:48:00 - [5] Edited by: SuperNova221 on 07/04/2010 10:50:43 Originally by: Denuo Secus Originally by: SuperNova221 ...what's the point of this thread? .. This is the point of my thread: Originally by: SuperNova221 Get one of your Torp Raven's or Blaster Rokh's and try join your alliance's BS gang... Then Originally by: SuperNova221 Also, you claim that one of the best snipers are shield tanked, but THE best sniper is armour. Thats why I said "one of the best". Originally by: SuperNova221 For capitals. All Amarr ones armour tank (4) all Gallente ones armour tank (8) 2, arguably 3 Min ones armour tank (10) so 10 out of 16 Capitals are armour tanked so that's not 50%, where did you get 50% from? .. Yip, my bad. I considered all Minmatar as shield... Originally by: SuperNova221 Nearly all your "points" are just "This ship can, if the pilot wants to, fit a shield buffer on it" No, my point is most ships are equal or better with shield tank. Point if this thread is lobbying for (from my own experience) far to less common shield fleets :P From top to bottom. Where's the point? Shield tanked BS's aren't used much in BS gangs because far more BS use armour tank and are more effective with it. Not to mention the CPU usage of shield mods, most Gal and Amarr BS's are PG orientated so struggle to fit shield mods. It would leave them lying face down crying every time a fleet came along because they simply can't do shield RR or shield buffer. Whereas all shield tanked ships can do a (fairly bad, but can still do) an armour tank. I know you said one of the best. I understand that. I was just stating that the best is armour. Since this thread seems to be about what is better shield or armour, can't really tell and you're not making it easy. Shield fits and armour fits have different uses. So you can't really say one is better than the other. Brutix, for example, if you want a fairly fast, cheap high-DPS platform for a roaming HAC gang you're likely going to have Scimi support and that would be good. If you flew armour though, slower, lower DPS but higher buffer, in a roaming HAC gang that would be ineffectual as it just doesn't fit in and the RR support wouldn't be of as much use. Same goes the other way round. A fast shield fit wouldn't perform as well in a BS gang with guardian support. Different fits for different ships have different uses and are useful in different situations. I don't see your need to prove that shield isn't niche, if that's what you prefer to fly, like I in most cases, then go ahead. Nobodies going to stop you because "Ohh shield isn't as popular so you should fly armour!" You're not 8 years old anymore.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:24:00 - [6] Originally by: SuperNova221 Where's the point? Shield tanked BS's aren't used much in BS gangs because far more BS use armour tank and are more effective with it. No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. -----------
Poses	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Denuo Secus - One of the best snipers (Rokh) is a shield tank, the others should work quite good with shield buffer (max gank) apoc... Originally by: Denuo Secus - One if the heftiest damage dealer against BSs and above (torp Raven): shield buffer true, but GL fitting tank and getting that full dps number Originally by: Denuo Secus - The ewar BS (Scorp) is a shield buffered BS uh.... no? i always see them 1600mm plate fits, or tankless Originally by: Denuo Secus - Most of the recons fit shield buffers in fact almost all t2 cruiser are shield buffer fit. I've never really heard people say armor tank your HAC. Originally by: Denuo Secus - The two considered as best HICs (Onyx, Broadsword) are shield tanked nrly only the best PSTd in lowsec, over all in 0.0 devoter is best at super cap tackle (has the most cap to resist neuting) other then that i find they are all p. ballenced Originally by: Denuo Secus - All sniper HACs are very solid (only usable?) when fitted with a shield buffer, even the Zealot i think i already covered this Originally by: Denuo Secus - A very solid BC (Drake) is a "capable" shield buffer - most others are good with shield (Cane, Myrm, Brutix). not gonna disagree, but i think this disproves your point that everyone insists on armor tanking... Originally by: Denuo Secus - If stealth bombers fit a "tank", they don't fit a plate irrelevent Originally by: Denuo Secus - 50% of the capital fleet in game is/can shield tank 100% of ship in eve is/can shield tank... dosn't mean they should Originally by: Denuo Secus - 75% of all carriers can shield RR 75% of all carriers can armor RR too Originally by: Denuo Secus :random stuffs: i think for the most part people considered active tank bonus ** Originally by:** Denuo Secus Most ships below BS are very good as shield buffer - even the golden ones. Because of the naturally limited slot amount maximizing tank and gank by maintaining mobility is possible only with shield tank. no one disagrees with this... Originally by: Denuo Secus One of the exeptions where armor tanks really excel is solo PvP, med slots are needed for tackling here. But even in small gangs there are specialists for it. uh... the best solo ships are nano or shield tank... since nano can gtfo when ** hits the fan, and a shield BS can tank enough to de-aggro. Originally by:** Denuo Secus The other exception is RR without logistics. But that's more because of broken and unfitable shield RR than the uberness of armor RR. I bet if shield RR could be fitted without gimping the whole ship they would be far more common. I'm not sure what your point was... you haven't pointed out anything anyone didn't already know. Sure a shield RR can work, but there are few ships that can do it effectively. if your point was: "There is time when you wanna shield buffer" then i say you are the least original person in eve.
Veritaal Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Merin Ryskin No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. Not so. Most of the popular PVP ships have more low slots to blow on plates/armor tanking mods. Freeing up space for other stuff in the mids (cap booster, tackle, tracking mod/SEBO). Also, the Amarr lineup of Battleships are some of the best, if not THE best in the game. And fitting a shield tank + shield RR on those suckers would not only be horribly ineffective, but leave them with barely enough CPU to fit anything else. A change to shield RR fitting requirements would make shield RR fleets viable. But it wont render armor tankers obsolete.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: SuperNova221 Where's the point? Shield tanked BS's aren't used much in BS gangs because far more BS use armour tank and are more effective with it. No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. The hp buffer of 1600mm plates and LSEs would have to get a lot closer in order for armour tank BS to be "instantly obselete", not to mention a few other advantages that armour tank BS have (eg: slot layout) but it would be nice to see shield RR fleets become a viable alternative. The fitting cost on a large shield RR is beyond ridiculous. T2 large armour RR: 48 CPU (and this is already enough to force fitting compromises on most battleships) and 660 PG. T2 large shield RR: 154 CPU and 192 PG. It looks like some muppet has tried to "balance" these modules by making their PG:PG/CPU:CPU ratios about the same. Shield takes just over 3x as much CPU as armour; armour takes just over 3x as much grid as shield. But the PG cost of the armour RR is so low to start with that it's pretty trivial to fit on most battleships. For the RR armour unit to take as much of a Megathron's grid as the RR Shield unit takes of the Raven's CPU (700/154 = 22%), it would have to have a grid requirement of 3140 PG - nearly 400% more than it does now. Change the Shield unit to, say, 64 CPU + 450 PG, and it'll still be pretty tough to fit, and still tougher than the armour RR, but at least it'll be viable.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.04.07 15:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Veritaal Not so. Most of the popular PVP ships have more low slots to blow on plates/armor tanking mods. Freeing up space for other stuff in the mids (cap booster, tackle, tracking mod/SEBO). Correction: most of the popular PvP ships have more low slots to blow on *damage/tracking mods and nanofibers.* This is the reason why Hurricanes and Harbingers are best when shield tanked, despite having more low slots than mids. Quote: Also, the Amarr lineup of Battleships are some of the best, if not THE best in the game. And fitting a shield tank + shield RR on those suckers would not only be horribly ineffective, but leave them with barely enough CPU to fit anything else. Not anymore, at least not at sub-sniper ranges. Minmatar take that title now, and would dominate even more if they were able to shield tank in RR gangs.

Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.07 16:08:00 - [11] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 07/04/2010 16:11:02 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Not anymore, at least not at sub-sniper ranges. Minmatar take that title now, and would dominate even more if they were able to shield tank in RR gangs. I believe you're referring to the Typhoon, which takes freaking forever to have respectable stats? A quick scan of these forums shows that the Tempest is still viewed as either an underpowered Battleship or a very good Battlecruiser. Shield RR would be nice here, but hardly game changing when contrasted with the Phoon. The Maelstrom can definitely kick out the damage, but its forced local tack is lackluster once the fight gets larger than 3-4 people on either side. And if you ignore the rep bonus, it has a frankly poor buffer for a close range ship. You cannot RR it without utterly destroying the only thing going for it. If you're referring to sniping with Artillery, that sort of defeats the phrasing "sub-sniper ranges." I'm not saying they're underpowered (they absolutely aren't)...everything needs its down points to be balanced. But IMO the blind complaint of Minmatar dominance doesn't hold near as much water at the BS level as it does at the cruiser and frig hull level. And there is no clear winner at the BC level. So...clarify?
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:00:00 - [12] @all who are still missing my point: just consider this thread as "stocktaking" dedicated to all the FCs and naysayers who are thinking Chimeras are best for POS repping, Scorps are only viable because they can be armor tanked and every sniper BS should be an Apoc. The common use of shield buffers is maybe obvious for some but based on my own experiences there are a lot of pilots who argue "fit armor or stay docked". - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
Exploding Tukey	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:09:00 - [13] Nobody is arguing that shield tanking is not viable and that you should just not make fleets with shield tankers, but what they are saying is that currently, armor tanked ships are much more popular. Nothing is stopping you from making a fleet of shield tankers, which would function quite well, but as mentioned before, you would have more trouble fitting remote shield repairs on battleships and thus would be gimping your fittings slightly more then the armor tanking equivalents. Some ships would have a harder time with this given how some races are much more pressed for cpu then others. fits become popular for a reason. If your corp has 80% people flying armor tanked ships, and shield tanking turns out to be mathematically 5 or 10% better, you still don't have the option to force everybody in your corp to suddenly start training shield skills or new ships.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:16:00 - [14] Snipers need 2x Sebos to reach the required targeting range. 2x midslots you can't do without on ships with very few midslots means no shield tank. ------------ +15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:55:00 - [15] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 07/04/2010 17:56:05 Originally by: Tagami Wasp Snipers need 2x Sebos to reach the required targeting range. 2x midslots you can't do without on ships with very few midslots means no shield tank. IIRC, The Maelstrom in a sniper fit still had room enough to fit a ~~decent~~ (ED: passable) shield buffer. And the Rokh obviously can do it. Or were you talking about the other races? (In which case, yes...shield tanking an Apoc or Mega is not recommended.)
Bibbleibble	Posted - 2010.04.07 17:58:00 - [16] In response to all the comments about shield RR: Damn, I wish I had me a chimera...
To mare Amarr Advanced Technology	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: SuperNova221 Where's the point? Shield tanked BS's aren't used much in BS gangs because far more BS use armour tank and are more effective with it. No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. false. the ships that are supposed to shield tank can fit remote shield rep(s) just fine. the main problem is that 3/4 races can armor RR while only 2/4 can shield RR and amarr (read fotm) is not included
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:30:00 - [18] Originally by: To mare Originally by: Merin Ryskin No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. false. the ships that are supposed to shield tank can fit remote shield rep(s) just fine. OK, then. Fill in the gaps for this then. You have 106 CPU to spend. [Raven, Remote Rep] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 100MN MicroWarpdrive I [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:36:00 - [19] Almost 120 CPU left for the Tempest! [Tempest, Shield RR Pest] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 100MN MicroWarpdrive I [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.07 18:53:00 - [20] Logic! It burnsesssss usss precioussss! Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.

Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Almost 120 CPU left for the Tempest! [Tempest, Shield RR Pest] Use S95a and you get an extra 70CPU for each of the setups. No reason fit T2 Shield Transfers to demonstrate your point if T2 Remote Reps aren't common... For the whole lot of good it does. That said, I do have a lolfit Tempest shield RR fit collecting dust somewhere in EFT... If I recall, you have to pick either having crap damage or crap range with it though, as it needs a Co-Proc.
To mare Amarr Advanced Technology	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:05:00 - [22] there are the named version of transporter wich use less cpu (even RR armor tanker use named version alot). the raven and tempest can be fitted with 1 shield transporter and no fitting mod, can be fitted with 2 LST with a co-proc wich isnt that bad considering you have all the low free 3 BCU 1 DC 1 CPU for the raven, 2 gyro 1 DC 2 TE 1 CPU for the tempest(bit low on EHP). maelstrom, scorpion and rokh can be fitted with 2 LST and no fitting mods at all. even the dominix can be fitted for shield RR its just not as good as the armor RR version
Sonreir Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Trinova	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: SuperNova221 Where's the point? Shield tanked BS's aren't used much in BS gangs because far more BS use armour tank and are more effective with it. No, the reason nobody uses shield tanked battleships in RR BS gangs is because the CPU requirements for remote shield reps are so absurdly high that only Scimitars/Basilisks can fit them. If the CPU requirements were fixed to allow them to be used on battleships, armor tanking battleships would instantly become obsolete. This. /thread
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Malcanis Almost 120 CPU left for the Tempest! [Tempest, Shield RR Pest] Use S95a and you get an extra 70CPU for each of the setups. No reason fit T2 Shield Transfers to demonstrate your point if T2 Remote Reps aren't common... For the whole lot of good it does. That said, I do have a lolfit Tempest shield RR fit collecting dust somewhere in EFT... If I recall, you have to pick either having crap damage or crap range with it though, as it needs a Co-Proc. Cool, let's see your proposed Raven fit then.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Malcanis Cool, let's see your proposed Raven fit then. I was being a bit an ass posting that, I just meant to say it isn't impossible, though the results are kind of sad. ArmoRR usually doesn't require nearly as many fitting mods. But this is what I had... (needing two Co-Procs, supports the idea that shield transport CPU is effing ridiculous. It doesn't help that the grid needs fitting mods as well.) [Shield RRaven] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II 100MN MicroWarpdrive I J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Ancilary Current Router I Large Ancilary Current Router I As a general note: It turns out my lolfit Tempest fit is 5% over CPU as well with one Co-Proc. Gonna have to work on it. Feel free to accuse me of all sorts of unrealistic EFT **ery. Originally by:** To mare maelstrom, scorpion and rokh can be fitted with 2 LST and no fitting mods at all. Blarg! This almost made me burst a vessel...there is absolutely no advantage to taking guns off a Maelstrom when the Tempest exists. It just ends up being a worse ship in every way. The Rokh is a slightly different matter since it's a turret ship as opposed to the Raven, but it already has poor DPS.
Jotobar	Posted - 2010.04.07 19:53:00 - [26] Thanks for sharing but yea that's not really how it works.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.07 20:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Jotobar Thanks for sharing but yea that's not really how it works. Eah, I'd be the first to call the setup sh*t, but please show us how it really works.
Jotobar	Posted - 2010.04.07 20:04:00 - [28] was refering to the op not you. You took an impossible task and did the best you could, the results where meh but not really your fault.
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.04.07 20:10:00 - [29] Co-Processor II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Heavy Capacitor Booster II,Cap Booster 800 Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II,Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I raven RR 700 dps 80k EHP
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis T2 large armour RR: 48 CPU (and this is already enough to force fitting compromises on most battleships) and 660 PG. T2 large shield RR: 154 CPU and 192 PG. It looks like some muppet has tried to "balance" these modules by making their PG:PG/CPU:CPU ratios about the same. Shield takes just over 3x as much CPU as armour; armour takes just over 3x as much grid as shield. But the PG cost of the armour RR is so low to start with that it's pretty trivial to fit on most battleships. For the RR armour unit to take as much of a Megathron's grid as the RR Shield unit takes of the Raven's CPU (700/154 = 22%), it would have to have a grid requirement of 3140 PG - nearly 400% more than it does now. Or maybe it is balanced compared to local tank? Large Armor Repairer II : 2300MW 55tf 26 cap/s 53 hp/s Large Remote Armor Repair System II : 660MW 48tf 56 cap/s 85.3 hp/s X-Large Shield Booster II : 550 MW 230tf 80 cap/s 120 hp/s Large Shield Transporter II : 192MW 154tf 62 cap/s 85.3 hp/s (77.5% of cap use of local tank for 71% as many HP/s) It looks a lot more balanced that way no? (I should have adjusted the number for max skills tbh, which reduce cap for both remote but cycle time on local armor and cap use on local shield, but :effort:). The scaling from local to remote tank is done the same way in both case. Both are less cap efficient than local tank, both cheaper in fitting. The only imbalance one can see is in the cap use being worst in the case of shield tanking, but then it being front loaded it must be paid somehow as it saved countless ships... Now what I want to understand is how Ravens that don't have too much trouble fitting X-Large Shield Boosters cannot fit a shield transporter using less fittings... -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog



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