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Caspar Milquetoast
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Posted - 2010.04.11 07:42:00 -
[1]
Hey all, bit of a newbie trader here trying to start up and I see a general mentioning of how you can "easily lose a ton of money to market shift" statements throughout basic guides and such. I can only see this happening in one real way, and that's in a particular item/market that tanks to a sustainably low level. A patch or game change would be the likely culprit. Are most of these insightful marketeers referring to that scenario, or are they just selling their goods irregardless of the downturn? It's my first instinct to just cancel the orders/pull the goods and wait for sunnier days.
I'd hope it's a lesson in "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" combined with a need for liquid assets, or else I could be making some deleterious mistakes. Will anyone shed some light? It would be appreciated.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.04.11 09:00:00 -
[2]
A big part of the profit from station trading tends to come from price manipulations (either doing them by yourself or trying to piggyback on other people's manipulations).
Even when done well these manipulations tend to crash after a few days - if you did buy in too late (at inflated prices), have had to buy out too many other orders to keep prices at the desired level or have underestimated the elasticity of demand you can easily lose a lot of ISK.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.11 12:54:00 -
[3]
The very short and simplified answer is "yes, that's what everybody means"
The longer version would be explaining how a patch can cause price of some items to drop a lot (and you might be left with a lot of overpriced inventory) either only a long time after the patch was introduced (when enough people shift their gameplay style) or even before the patch gets on TQ (as people see some changes on SiSi and try to dump stockpiles before the change hits, making effect seem to happen before cause) and so on and so forth.
When you're juggling with profit margins of 2% to 5% of item prices per sale, a drop in inventory price to half of what it used to cost when you bought it can be pretty devastating, especially if you hold a lot of stock (and traders usually do end up holding a lot of stock, even if they try to get rid of it as fast as possible).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Dracnys
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:02:00 -
[4]
If I see that items that I hold are starting to fall I look at the chart and the buy orders and check for the obvious signs of manipulation. Then I compare the price with different hubs and see if something changed over there. For example someone sells thousands of datacores accumulated over years. If it's just that, I'll just wait it out. The market will return to normal.
If it's something bigger, like drastic shifts in supply (moon goo can do that), game updates then I usually sell as fast as possible. Maybe I could sit it out, but it is very uncertain if it will rise again or just fall to no end.
One also has to calculate the costs of holding an item. I hate sitting on something for longer than a few days, as I could do something better with that money. Also depends on the time it would take to liquidate and the loss I'd make with that. The worst thing one could do would keeping the item because he doesn't want to admit he predicted the price wrong.
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Grayclay
Caldari
Van Uber.
Order of the Rising Sun
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:39:00 -
[5]
It depends on what you're doing.
I guess the way I trade is pretty safe, as I have yet to lose any formidable sum of ISK to any market shenanagans. I get rid of stuff as fast as I profitably can. If anybody is trying to **** with the market, don't buy into their shenanagans. If somebody massively undercuts, wait until their order sells out, and then things will go back to the way they were. In smaller hubs.
Larger hubs are scary.
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Celtic industries
F A I L
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:30:00 -
[6]
Well what happens to a lot of beginning traders is getting tied to a particular product very early, you'll start off looking at lots of items to trade and make a little off of them all, and a few really good ones will stand out and you'll divert more and more ISK into trading just that.
The problem there is that more often than not it's just a particular phase of the market cycle where those particular items where very profitable, and then it drops down again, often leaving a trader with little cash, a low-value inventorry, and generally bummed about trading because its hard to see where he went wrong - after all it had been working right up untill X time ago...
To avoid this, really the best thing is market history research, and IMO that's the one single thing that will most help you as a trader: learning to read hte market history graph.
If you can't beat Eris, join her, hmmm that sounded so much better in my head - Cortes
Don't be greedy :P -Cap |
Rykker Bow
Gallente
The Blackfold Brotherhood
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Posted - 2010.04.13 04:45:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Grayclay
Larger hubs are scary.
I lol'd.
Jump right in to Jita, I did. You'll eventually lose money on some trades but the money coming in from others far exceed the losses. I'll even take a loss on an item on purpose if I can make more money from it later on.
A part of my profits come from grabbing items that are posted incorrectly. Someone putting up a sell order at .01 above the buy order price. If those orders come from station traders then they're most likely loosing money. Typo's can be a problem for some. Someone sold me an item at 125m below the buy order price last month, great for me, horrible for them. but on the same note, something similar happened to me a bit ago where I lost 300m in one trade. That was the only mentionable one that I know of in the last couple of months.
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Grayclay
Caldari
Van Uber.
Order of the Rising Sun
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Posted - 2010.04.13 05:06:00 -
[8]
I've been thinking about moving to Jita, if only because the massive volume and constant activity involved there. Of course market PVP is excessive, and lag runs its course, but I did see large margins on items that were quite easy to find, even by me. So I may pack up and move if it suits me, just to see how it works... I figure thats where the good profits are anyways.
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Lord Arbalest
Amarr
Zero Profits
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Posted - 2010.04.13 07:33:00 -
[9]
You can make just as good a profit from utilizing a hub other than jita if you are unable to invest the time required to babysit your orders in jita. Don't fall for the jita hype.
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Khayos
Caldari
United Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.04.13 07:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grayclay
I've been thinking about moving to Jita, if only because the massive volume and constant activity involved there. Of course market PVP is excessive, and lag runs its course, but I did see large margins on items that were quite easy to find, even by me. So I may pack up and move if it suits me, just to see how it works... I figure thats where the good profits are anyways.
Hi
Grayclay, after reading some of your recent posts, your history sounds similar to mine, after joining EVE I jumped straight into 0.0 PvP corp and sort of dwelled there while making money here and there from ratting, sales etc but now I'm trying to get into the markets like yourself. Your complete confidence inspires me to go to Jita myself and maybe do some 'very very small' trades to see if I can actually manage to be a trader. :-)
Thanks
- Khayos |
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