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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2010.04.17 14:23:00 -
[1]
Ok I aologise if tis is coverd elswear, but has anyone else noticed the price of black ops ships lately? I remember them being over twice the current market value. now they are actually cheap enough to consider as a flyable ship. What gives? did ccp finially act on the black ops problems by tweaking the required build materials?
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.04.17 15:03:00 -
[2]
Stuff that no one likes or uses is cheap, in general. They are only used to bridge in a bombersquad to hostile territory. Which is sad.
They need more of an actual role. So maybe CCP will get around to tweak them in a couple of years.
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BuckStrider
Naughty 40
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Posted - 2010.04.17 15:06:00 -
[3]
They are cheap(er) because they generally suck and are totally stuck to doing one thing...Bridging in cov ops ships
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:44:00 -
[4]
That basically. I've often heard that more titans exist than BO's though I'm not sure it's true. Their price reflects their lack of desirability. I have one and use it on occasion for some ninja pve but I don't pvp with it, it's terrible at pvp. I only know one other player who has one and it collects dust in his hanger. He has it simply as a collector's item. It's only undocked once for a roam that I know of and we didn't catch anything.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Moonduste
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Posted - 2010.04.17 18:23:00 -
[5]
Actually if you check out battle clinic there are a few Black Widow builds that i would HATE to encounter one on one:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/31073-Hatter-039-s-Solo-Widow.html
Expensive but goes to show a black ops could ruin your day if your ratting alone and THAT comes out of stealth on you
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.04.17 19:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Moonduste Actually if you check out battle clinic there are a few Black Widow builds that i would HATE to encounter one on one:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/31073-Hatter-039-s-Solo-Widow.html
Expensive but goes to show a black ops could ruin your day if your ratting alone and THAT comes out of stealth on you
Well, I think you can make every ship "shine" somehow when you throw ISK at it. It's still broken and without a role, though.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.17 19:42:00 -
[7]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/04/2010 19:42:56 The widow can pull some fun tricks like that as an ECM boat. It's inferior to a t1 scorpion but if used solo against solo ratters I'm sure it works fine since they'll never be able to target back. The redeemer/sin/panther are direct damage ships however and they are inferior in every way to their t1 counterpart and even to many BC's. If the redeemer were a BS class curse, the panther a BS class huggin and the sin a BS class lachesis, I don't think anyone would complain.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Amanda Mor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.17 21:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: King Rothgar Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/04/2010 19:42:56 The widow can pull some fun tricks like that as an ECM boat. It's inferior to a t1 scorpion but if used solo against solo ratters I'm sure it works fine since they'll never be able to target back. The redeemer/sin/panther are direct damage ships however and they are inferior in every way to their t1 counterpart and even to many BC's. If the redeemer were a BS class curse, the panther a BS class huggin and the sin a BS class lachesis, I don't think anyone would complain.
What's actually the problem with the BlackOps anyway? Even without faction mods, you can get close to 1000DPS out of a Panther, it's fast, and it can lock right after de-cloaking - these seem like pretty useful tools if you want to hunt ratters or set a trap for someone with a bait ship in a belt. Sure, it's a little light on tank and a bit pricey, and it would be nice if it could fit a covops cloak, but that doesn't seem like enough negatives to turn it into strictly a covops bridge...
What am I missing? It just seems to me that it could be very useful for solo battleship pvp. Hell, AFK cloakers should love this ship, it's the only cloaking-bonused ship that can actually kill something on its own...
---------------------------------------------- I'm not an alt. Oh wait, yes I am. |
Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.17 21:51:00 -
[9]
What do you mean by cheap?
I bought a Panther right when BO were introduced. It cost me about 516 mil. I think the last I checked they were up over 700 mil.
What's cheap mean to you?
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MalVortex
Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.18 01:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amanda Mor
What's actually the problem with the BlackOps anyway? Even without faction mods, you can get close to 1000DPS out of a Panther, it's fast, and it can lock right after de-cloaking - these seem like pretty useful tools if you want to hunt ratters or set a trap for someone with a bait ship in a belt. Sure, it's a little light on tank and a bit pricey, and it would be nice if it could fit a covops cloak, but that doesn't seem like enough negatives to turn it into strictly a covops bridge...
What am I missing? It just seems to me that it could be very useful for solo battleship pvp. Hell, AFK cloakers should love this ship, it's the only cloaking-bonused ship that can actually kill something on its own...
If you are hunting in a blackops, you are doing so by proxy through a recon with a covert cyno. The Blackops cannot warp cloaked, and so are no better than any other uncloacked ship at finding ratters (or other softer targets) and engaging them. While blackops have no decloaking targeting delay, that is only relevant if you arrive and cloak before your target does, preferably without getting scanned.
In other words, you would be forced to sit and sit and sit in the hope that somebody comes into your firing range. Even when they do, the improved cloak brings their targeting speed down to that of a carrier, so anybody with their wits about them will likley be able to warp out before you lock, recalibration delay or no.
If they don't warp out, your combat performance is considerably subpar compared to a regular T1 battleship, and so they will quickly find themselves over their head in a soloing situation should they ever get counter-tarped, or engage a target with any backup nearby. Force recons do everything a blackops can do to a ratter, better, and with far less risk of both getting killed by backup or losing a multi-hundred million isk hull.
In short, the hulls are in now way or shape set up to try to solo using their cloaking bonus. The only real argument I could think of would be a triple sensor boosted arty panther sniping industrials or something with an insta-decloak lock. Every other use is going to be better done in a force recon.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2010.04.18 03:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Moonduste Actually if you check out battle clinic there are a few Black Widow builds that i would HATE to encounter one on one:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/31073-Hatter-039-s-Solo-Widow.html
Expensive but goes to show a black ops could ruin your day if your ratting alone and THAT comes out of stealth on you
Too bad it only works if the Widow is already cloaked at the belt, waiting for someone to blunder by. What it needs most is a covops cloak. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Htrag
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.18 05:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Moonduste Actually if you check out battle clinic there are a few Black Widow builds that i would HATE to encounter one on one:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/31073-Hatter-039-s-Solo-Widow.html
Expensive but goes to show a black ops could ruin your day if your ratting alone and THAT comes out of stealth on you
Too bad it only works if the Widow is already cloaked at the belt, waiting for someone to blunder by. What it needs most is a covops cloak.
Although the covops cyno delivery method could be useful.
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Telinturco
Rogue Clones
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Posted - 2010.04.18 05:31:00 -
[13]
What if all BlackOps ships were left the exact same as they are now, but were allowed to fit a CovOps cloak?
They'd still have subpar... everything, BUT they would have a legitimate purpose in ambushing with BC grade DPS/ECM ability. Still not going to solowinsauce with them, but it takes the obvious intended purpose of their no-delay cloak (picking your engagements) and makes it a reality.
In addition to giving ambushing gangs improved Gank and Tank, such a ship could also be used to slip by camps and rat/mission in low/null sec space.
With the addition of only a single module, you've taken a ship that only has purpose in lowsec bomber ops and given it expanded PvP ability and a niche PvE role.
"'Treason' is nothing more than a concept invented by winners, as an excuse for hanging losers."
-Benjamin Franklin |
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.18 10:02:00 -
[14]
Giving them a cov ops cloak would improve them for ambushing but not by much. Would basically make them exclusively low sec gate camper ship. In null sec a stealth bomber would work just as well in that role, only reason you can't use them in low sec is sentry guns. The reason a cov ops cloak would allow BO's to gate camp effectively is the lack of a scan resolution penalty. Even so, you'd have to cover it in sensor boosters.
The BO's need to either be BS class HAC's or BS class recons, that will solve the problem. Yes they will solopwn a normal t1 BS, they also cost 4x as much, how is this a problem? A bhaalgorn will also solopwn pretty much any normal t1 BS too. No one complains about that.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium Z.E.R.G
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Posted - 2010.04.18 10:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amanda Mor Hell, AFK cloakers should love this ship, it's the only cloaking-bonused ship that can actually kill something on its own...
Can't warp cloaked.
Also, there are many cloaky ships that do fine solo. ________
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2010.04.18 13:21:00 -
[16]
I remember black ops being up around a billion isk. and honestly if you extend the market data on black opps in jita the widow is down to about 400 million from 700 million. (rounded numbers. and yeah I agree the widow is the only black opps I would consider flying and only because its basically a giant rook. And yes black opps needs a cov opps cloak to make the ships good. that or they need to be on par with their t1 counterparts in a direct confrontation. so far the widow is the only one that could take its t1 brother.
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Eternum Praetorian
Method In Khaos
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Posted - 2010.04.18 16:49:00 -
[17]
All trolling aside . . .
Because people lack both patients and creativity, they prefer to blob the hell out of the other guy instead of thinking or employing long term tactics or goals. In such an environment, how often could you expect a dedicated black ops jump portal ship to be used?
On that note, I am very close to Widow.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2010.04.18 17:01:00 -
[18]
My redeemer continues to only be of use to ignore gate camps when moving things around. Which is not too bad, becuase it makes my life a lot simpler. But i'd love to see them get ... something to make them better.
Anytime I come up with a good use for a blackops, even just to portal combat ships, I end up shrugging and figuring that we may just as well have use regular ships. The only gang that looks good in my head to jump into a fight is a bundle of t3, and that becuase you can actually tank on the other end. I hate that the combined EHP of most portal gangs is about equal to one bs.
This is really the problem. For attacking solo ships, it seems to be an awesome idea. But you have to have a recon to drop the cyno, and since recons should be able to hold tackle for long enough to get support in the normal method.... why bother ?
I don't think the BOBS should become combat ships tbh, but I do think that you should be able to offer something better than 'a really cool way to gank solo ratters'.
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Headerman
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Posted - 2010.04.19 00:23:00 -
[19]
It's pretty ******ed that a black ops ship can't use a Cov ops cloak...
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.04.19 01:25:00 -
[20]
Built-in cloak-warp trick is actually pretty awesome in lowsec, and the bridging of bombers and recons is extremely effective if done properly.
Cov ops cloak would be silly, if Eve doesnt need one thing its BSs that warp cloaked.
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Ping Bong
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Posted - 2010.04.19 02:13:00 -
[21]
panther is like one of my fav ships ever - its like a supercharged loki: same speed, 1.5x worse agility, 1.5x worse sig radius but 2x more of everything else
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