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Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.17 16:59:00 -
[1]
So I have been trading for about 2 months now, I started with 52m from my main and have grown that to be quite a bit more, although I have had help with selling other assets that my main owned previously.
So far, my method has been checking things that I know I use on my main, seeing how heavily they are traded, looking at their margins, sometimes experimenting with how well they buy/sell. After that ran stale, as those items started to get more and more traded (which I am guessing is pretty cyclical?) I started branching into other races mods, and then on to just various meta objects that seemed to move.
Over this time, however, I feel like I am running out of good items to trade. I know there is still a huge chunk of the market that I haven't touched, but I feel like maybe I am going about this the wrong way. So, without asking "hey what do you guys trade" as I know that is ignorant, I want to ask what sort of thought process you guys take when looking for potential items to trade. What should I be thinking?
My capital has outrun my trade slots (which I am currently working on raising) and I feel like it is bad to have a good amount of isk in my wallet instead of on the market, but so far when I have tried t2 and moon mins (or things of that nature, more expensive, and generally in bulk) its a case of much fewer people selling to buy orders and mostly people just selling their items on their own. My experiments with ferrofluid proved profitable, but took a bit of waiting and modifying for someone to actually finally hit my buy order.
If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Grayclay
Caldari
Van Uber.
Order of the Rising Sun
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:30:00 -
[2]
It alllll depends on the market you're in. You need to know what ships are used for missions, what mods those ships use, what drones, whats needed to build those ships, etc. If you're in a transfer region between hisec and lowsec, look at PvP mods.
So if lots of people like to use T2 Large Shield Extenders, look at the Blueprint, see what materials are needed for that. Then look at what materials are needed for THOSE materials. Then trade in all 3 levels.
Thats just my advice, which is the tip of the iceberg.
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:31:00 -
[3]
The best answer you will get in here about what people are selling is: "stuff". People just will not give away their money making secrets that will only hurt their pocketbooks. And rule #1 in trading is don't tell other people what you are making money at....unless you want a bunch of people jumping into your market!
With that said, if you do emough research within the MD forums, you will find many great ideas that have helped me make billions a week!
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.17 17:40:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Betty Business
So, without asking "hey what do you guys trade" as I know that is ignorant, I want to ask what sort of thought process you guys take when looking for potential items to trade. What should I be thinking?
Originally by: Lord Zarcam
The best answer you will get in here about what people are selling is: "stuff". People just will not give away their money making secrets that will only hurt their pocketbooks. And rule #1 in trading is don't tell other people what you are making money at....unless you want a bunch of people jumping into your market!
While I am a novice trader, my reading comprehension skills are a little above average, you?
If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
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Posted - 2010.04.17 18:19:00 -
[5]
The best way to look at trading, IMO, is to think of it as a PvP activity. For you to make a lot of ISK someone has to lose a lot of ISK. Trading doesn't generate ISK, and, in fact, due to taxes and fees is a negative sum game.
Don't think so much of what to trade (although that can be objectively evaluated -- multiply profit margin on a single item by 1/2 of trade volume per day to determine the slice of pie you're competing over) but more of HOW to trade.
Figure out how to best shock, awe and panic your opponents. And even if you don't make a huge mountain of ISK every time the delicious tears may be a reward in and of itself.
Also, depend on people's stupidity and the generocity of freetards in any trading plan and all will be good.
And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.17 18:49:00 -
[6]
So I should anchor a few SBU and camp them all in, is that what your telling me? :p
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Rykker Bow
Gallente
The Blackfold Brotherhood
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Posted - 2010.04.17 19:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Clair Bear
The best way to look at trading, IMO, is to think of it as a PvP activity. For you to make a lot of ISK someone has to lose a lot of ISK.
yes, trading is pvp, you're up against other traders and the spoils of war is isk.
The people coming in to make quick sales are just not making as much as they could, I think saying they lose a lot of isk is a bit unclear. Which leads to the time/earnings/enjoyment of the game ratio. Some will want to unload their stock fast rather than babysit a bunch of orders. Some will stick around to maximize their profits.
Quote:
Figure out how to best shock, awe and panic your opponents. And even if you don't make a huge mountain of ISK every time the delicious tears may be a reward in and of itself.
you certainly will not make a huge mountain of isk with this strategy. shock, awe and panic does have it's place in trading but not a big one and in using it in a reckless manner will significantly reduce your isk intake. Tears do have their own value depending on the trader.
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.04.18 16:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Betty Business
While I am a novice trader, my reading comprehension skills are a little above average, you?
Not a way to win friends by insulting others. If your reading comprehensive skills were so good, you would not have needed to ask the question! All your answers are here already, you just need to spend a little time reading! Which shouldn't be much of a problem since your reading skills are so good!
Like others have said, it's a different form of PVP!
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
Dzil
Caldari
SafeHouse Investments of Tautology
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Posted - 2010.04.18 18:07:00 -
[9]
Well good news, you're on the right path and you've found it without even really having to ask for help.
Basically all trade is a balance between margin and volume. Quite simply, you turn over X widgets, you make Y isk profit per widget, you're net profit is X*Y. These are your outputs, and the net profit is usually your best measurement of success (some folks have secondary objectives like driving competition from a market).
Your inputs or resources are your total number of orders, total available isk, and your personal time.
Ideally you seek to get the highest margin/volume with the least expenditure of your resources. For most traders, total available isk and number of orders steadily increase, but personal time doesn't. This leads to changes as you develop into a bigger time trader: where once you might have enough volume flowing through a mini-hub to saturate your available capital, as that grows you find you need to operate in a bigger or multiple hubs to use all your isk effectively. Pretty soon your orders become a squeeze and you abandon that high margin item that you only sell once per week, because suddenly with more isk you know you can make more per order than that was worth (even if it was a delicious 800% margin).
It sounds like this is exactly what you're hitting. My best advice if you don't feel you have a good grasp on how your markets are doing is to get something like EMMA or just build yourself a mini-database if you're savvy, and start tracking your profits on each item. I myself was amazed when I figured out what I thought was a small side project had actually netted me a solid billion isk, while other bigger trades consuming multiple orders were barely making a profit because they were slow to sell. Figure out what your winners are and consider expanding in that market to other hubs/regions. Figure out what your losers are and liquidate them: time to move on.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.19 06:10:00 -
[10]
@ Dzil - Thanks for the positive words. I am installing EMMA now. While I have only messed with it briefly in the past, I'll try to dig deeper into it and see if it helps me understand my market better.
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Professor Jinmei
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Posted - 2010.04.19 09:06:00 -
[11]
If you are stuck in choosing items, then you could try new locations for a change.
I carry 1 unit of each item-of-interest in a frig and move around the region to check the localbuy and sell prices, comparing to the hub prices. If there is an attractive difference in prices, You dig in.
Of course if you know the region really well enough so that you can tell a 2 jumps buy order from system A covers such and such systems, then you don't have to do this.
Anyhow, this gives good feel about the region and often leads to new trade items. If you have enough time you can also check local agents, lab slots, belt compositions, number of people in system, etc, etc.
Busy manufacturing slots means there's a mineral/component market there. Knowing where the local agents send the missionerss to helps you identify neighbouring ammo/drone/hardener markets. You see hundreds of pos-labs on d-scan? Go dummp your datacores.
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carmo pereira
the muppets
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Posted - 2010.04.19 14:54:00 -
[12]
"Seeking direction in Trade"
that way ++++
:P
contact me ingame if u need help.
carmo
----
Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted, and the problem is I do not know which half
Lord Leverhulme 1851-1925, British founder of Unilever and philanthropist |
Chick'n Nugget
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Posted - 2010.04.19 18:27:00 -
[13]
Stop thinking about what people do buy and start looking at the markets to see what people actually do buy. Who cares what you are and are not trading as long as you are making a healthy profit at a healthy rate.
Personally, the only reason I know what items I am trading is because I pick categories to research and then mark off the categories as I go through them.
I really just look at the graphs. I see what is getting traded, how much it gets traded, it's current profit margin per item, historical highs and lows (for both buying and selling). Sometimes I buy things and resell them immediately for a quick profit, some items I see are being traded at very low historical levels and I buy and hold them and sell them a little while later.
I don't know if this is the best way, but I make a decent amount of isk doing it with not too much effort. Most of the "knowledge" I have gained is all from experience. So my suggestion is to just forget what you think people trade in and research to see what is actually being traded and work from there.
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Syrinie
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Posted - 2010.04.19 20:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lord Zarcam
Originally by: Betty Business
While I am a novice trader, my reading comprehension skills are a little above average, you?
Not a way to win friends by insulting others. If your reading comprehensive skills were so good, you would not have needed to ask the question! All your answers are here already, you just need to spend a little time reading! Which shouldn't be much of a problem since your reading skills are so good!
Like others have said, it's a different form of PVP!
No, zarcam, you asked for it. I read the OP's post and understood what she meant. You DID NOT read it and proceeded to spout. NOR did you read the 1st post which gave an example of the thought process in a random niche.
The OP has every right to be offended when you don't even spend the effort to read her post.
Sorry for derailing.
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Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.19 23:58:00 -
[15]
@ Professor Jinmei: Thanks for the advice, thats a pretty good method of checking things out that wont have me writing stuff down quite as much :p
@ Chick'n'nugget: While vague, I appreciate the idea your putting across. I probably should try holding on to some things too, I am big on trying to get rid of my stock as soon as I get a small pile.
@ Syrinie: I appreciate the support. I think he may have gone back and read it, but if not, I shrugged it off. There are alot of helpful people when they realize I am not asking for their trade secrets, just general trade know-how.
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.20 03:54:00 -
[16]
It is an issue that I have been trying to deal with for quite some time now. And in fact it is an issue that all long time traders run into.
As Dzil states, personal wealth accumulates over time but you game time does not grow proportionally. Then you find yourself thinking up of way to turn over ISK more time-efficiently. If trading is your main profession in game, then you probably don't have many other in-game goals than taking X amount of ISK and turning it into Y amount of ISK. But eventaully the ISK in your wallet starts to accumulate, you aren't able to turn all of it over, you can end up feeling less inspired about trading as it feels like you have already achieved your goals, and so to resolve this dilemma you start thinking how to stretch your horizons and become even better at your favorite profession in EVE.
My advice would be:
- Simply take a look at other items like you have already been doing, so just keep on with experimenting in different areas.
- Take a look at less profitable but less time consuming opportunities to make ISK. It is better that this extra ISK you have generates you even 3-5% rather than sitting there useless. If you have read this forum extensively, you see that people turn to IPOs exactly because of same need that you have - too much money and not enough time to do anything about it. Unfortunately IPOs turn out to be scams nearly half of the time. There are other much safer opportunities in game to turn large sums of ISK over for small profit but that also do not require more than a few hours each month to meddle with. Find these opportunities and apply your extra ISK to them.
- Instead of waiting for buy orders try to establish personal contacts with sellers. Trust me, accepting an item from a person on a monthly basis to resell due to a prearranged agreement between you two is far less time consuming that having to sit there bump your order every day of that same month. Because trading is such a solitary activity where everyone is out for their own profit, this can seem counterintuitive to a trader. And you will find a lot of people who will turn your offers down or be even downright rude to you, but over time you will slowly start to meet people with whom you can build mutually beneficial relationships that will help both you and them make money while saving on the time component.
- If you have not done so yet, do find yourself some in-game goals other than trying to make more and more ISK. Even if you find better items to trade, you will still hit the same ceiling given some time. So try to give your trading some other meaning than accumulating personal wealth. For example, seeding a 0.0 warzone with T2 modules and faction ammunition to feed the local war machine. Or helping a noobcorp settle in 0.0 space. You might end up feeling much more satisfied at the end, and doing such other things does not preclude making some profit on the side while you are at it.
- Finally, simply find ways to spend your extra ISK so you don't have it accumulating there. Buy yourself some characters, shiny toys to play with, and enjoy your play time
Hope this helps :)
Agony Unleashed - zero blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.20 10:53:00 -
[17]
Damn Aether, nice words.
Anyone here familiar with EVE Trader? I'm looking at my reports page, for top 25 most profitable items I have traded, and my yellow bar (gross sales) is way larger than my green bar (pure profit). Is that ok? Does it just indicate that I have sold a crapload of isk worth of something to make the profit that I have?
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Chick'n Nugget
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Posted - 2010.04.20 13:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Betty Business
@ Chick'n'nugget: While vague, I appreciate the idea your putting across. I probably should try holding on to some things too, I am big on trying to get rid of my stock as soon as I get a small pile.
I know it is vague, but really there are so many variables to take into account it is hard to say exactly what one should do in a particular situation because there are soooo many individual situations. You really just have to get a feel for what gives you the best profit by actually going out and trading.
As for holding, I did not start holding stock until I had made my first 1.5 billion. At first I was just trying to sell things as fast as possible to build up some wealth to work with. However, I realized at a point that most items sell way faster than I am able to buy them, so there is no point in me selling them right away as I can wait for the price to go up and sell them all at once at the higher price and be making more profit at the same speed.
It is just little things like that that you pick up on by actually doing it that make the difference.
I didn't say this, but I would suggest getting some kind of wallet tool. I use eve wallet aware. I am not sure I am totally happy with it and I plan on checking another one out, but it does help to show me what I am profiting and helps you "remember" some things you did.
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Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.20 20:32:00 -
[19]
Yeah, right now im using EVE Trader, which looks to be fairly simple to use and has alot of pretty colors for me to see my profit and such. Not sure if I am using it to its full potential yet or not, however.
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:56:00 -
[20]
Quick Update: I feel like I am getting a little better grasp of what to be looking out for, which, gladly, is mainly what I have already been doing. Like many, I am now reaching the issue of more isk than I can effectively put to use :(
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.28 09:56:00 -
[21]
Well, for the few of you who actually took an interest in this thread, I am gonna try to invest in a few cap related items and market them in the lowsec where I operate near as well, see if I can't make some money on the side and try something new in EVE that could help hold my interest :)
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Lizabeth Long
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Posted - 2010.04.28 16:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lord Zarcam
The best answer you will get in here about what people are selling is: "stuff".
Then consider trading in Quafe.
After all, everyone knows that "Stuff goes better with Quafe" (tm)
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Betty Business
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2010.04.29 18:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lizabeth Long
Originally by: Lord Zarcam
The best answer you will get in here about what people are selling is: "stuff".
Then consider trading in Quafe.
After all, everyone knows that "Stuff goes better with Quafe" (tm)
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If your reading this I posted with my damn alt. CCP plz make some sort of setting where you can set your main and it will carry over on any computer. >.< |
Companion Qube
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Posted - 2010.04.29 19:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Clair Bear
Also, depend on people's stupidity and the generocity of freetards in any trading plan and all will be good.
This is probably the best advice in this thread - figure out how to buy things for ludicrously low amounts and sell the same things (preferably in the same place) to other ******s for ludicrously high profits.
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Nobzy
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Posted - 2010.04.29 22:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lord Zarcam
Originally by: Betty Business
While I am a novice trader, my reading comprehension skills are a little above average, you?
Not a way to win friends by insulting others. If your reading comprehensive skills were so good, you would not have needed to ask the question! All your answers are here already, you just need to spend a little time reading! Which shouldn't be much of a problem since your reading skills are so good!
Like others have said, it's a different form of PVP!
Also pitching in just to point out that OP is very considerate, you on the other hand answered without even reading the OP. You also give out the generic "this is my house, welcome, but tread carefully" answer you've seen other people here give.
So indeed, it is you at fault in this case, not the OP. Carry on.
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