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The death of EVE?

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Mortimer Civeri	Posted - 2010.04.19 05:25:00 - [1] - Taking sov completely blows and is either shooting zillion-hp stationary structures or being kept from shooting zillion-hp stationary structures by timezone wars and supercap fleets - Losing sov, paradoxically, is absurdly easy, Goons obviously the biggest name to 'woops, bills' but they are certainly not the only ones and the awareness that all it takes is one guy not logging in, not a spy or anything, just a guy with too much RL stuff to handle, to ruin your alliance and weeks/months/years of work, isn't lost on the rest of 0.0. - Keeping sov and all the accoutrements of entrenched 0.0 space (cynojammers, supercap production, JB networks) is turning out to be just as prohibitively expensive (and, more importantly, dumb and not fun) as expected. - Even empire mission running corps may have a capfleet and a supercap or two in reserve. The casual small-gang PvP that empire wardec corps used to be able to get is going away, as everything escalates like some sort of MAD. - You can build numbers in conventional fleets but God help you if you have to jump into system, with local numbers as low as 400 we're seeing blackscreening and dying, some people even reporting dying an hour after logging out. Combine the normal tendency towards "If we don't outnumber them 3 to 1, we won't engage" with "If we do outnumber them 3 to 1, we won't load grid". It cannot be overemphasized what paralyzing effect this is having on 0.0 alliances and warfare. - Thus, your ~goodfights~ options are limited to small to medium size frigate gangs, dramiel/cynabal fleets and the like, that can run the moment a real fight appears, with the other end of the spectrum being 60 carriers/5 SC hotdrops, with pretty much nothing in between. All of these issues are killing the game.
Tobias Xiaosen Total Xenophobia	Posted - 2010.04.19 05:32:00 - [2] Eve is dying. Can I Have your stuff? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Oh! And... CRY SOME MORE ~
Disunia Vertas Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.19 08:18:00 - [3] The famous 'eve is going to die!!11oneone' thread. I believe the first one i saw must've been in 2004 or something? Eve sure has a long last breath.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.04.19 08:26:00 - [4] EVE IS DYING !!! He said it first. --------
Lexx Khadar Minmatar HellForge.	Posted - 2010.04.19 10:06:00 - [5] Instead of pointing out/imagining problems could you please back them up with what you think is a better alternative?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.04.19 10:08:00 - [6] All these issues are hurting 0.0 dwellers, better known as 'the minority'. -
Jasdemi Caldari Caldari Frontiers	Posted - 2010.04.19 10:18:00 - [7] 0.0 is too hardcore for you, join us carebears in high sec and you'll never cry again! Believe in the power of carebears! PS: Uhnoes! EVE is dying!!1 --------------------------------------------- Jasdemi's High Quality TS3 Hosting
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.04.19 10:27:00 - [8] EVE Died back at the beginning of 2008, when the best people of the game and the forum of that glorious times left for some reason or another. 2 Years, and people still flogging the dead horse.
Sellmewarez	Posted - 2010.04.19 10:31:00 - [9] Op, i agree on all your points but the stupid title means you are just going to get trolled.
Lazer Bear	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:05:00 - [10] Oh but since Tobias Xiaosen insulted you can you give me your items too? Too a poo only 50 million player

Mortimer Civeri	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:38:00 - [11] - People are already not logging in. AAA would have bulldozed Providence, weeks ago if they could have mustered up the numbers for a decent fleet. Instead they were apparently flying around in cynabal fleets, which also show how much time they've been playing around running pirate missions and plexes to get those faction ships. - There have been multiple reports of IT failing to get fleet numbers for ops and having to call them. We're talking failing to get 60 dudes in support ships. If IT can't get numbers with their numbers, then they really, really lack motivation. - There are a lot of people, even people who hate Goons to the core, who believe that if even goons can't find/make this game interesting then Eve:Online is dead and done. You'll always have the losers that grind in empire but without vibrant 0.0 politics nothing drives the empire market demands that make grinding in Eve any different from grinding in any other MMO. At least this is what I'm seeing from reading various threads. Not saying it's all valid or true but factor in some of the more individual political stuff and large chunks of 0.0 could be looking at significant collapse if this NC/SC war can't keep dudes logging in.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Mortimer Civeri [...] All of these issues are killing the game. All of these issues are killing YOUR game. FYP. ---- Store \| Apply
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:50:00 - [13] - Nobody wants to fight in 0.0 due to lag - Alliances fall apart due to high costs to maintain space - Power blocs disappear - Smaller groups who only take space they use and fight non-blobby battles inherit 0.0 - Just as planned A guy can dream. - Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know!
Syn Callibri Minmatar Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:56:00 - [14] OMG...not another "EVE is dying!" thread. If you think its dying...leave, unsubscribe, bail, shoo, skedattle, amscray already, don't let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya! Its been since what...2004 that morons have been saying this? Get over it already. QQ . . . . . . ...all I see is tears in space. "I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it."
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:56:00 - [15] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 19/04/2010 13:57:53 Sometimes when I see really stupid people trapped inside the game, I wish that it dies. However, I do agree that Eve is probably dying in an accessable timeframe or turn into something worse than a dead game, an undead game. Not like I'd wish for that.
Miss Connolly Public Relations Corp	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:16:00 - [16] I agree with all points raised in the OP. I am personally only login in to EVE to train skills and only join PVP ops if I think they'll be small and fast. Actual "sov warfare" is pretty pointless as long as the lag is the deciding factor. If CCP don't fix this ** soon then their **ed sov-mechanic will be the least of their problems (since nobody will be interested in it). As EVE currently stands it would be way easier just to meet in Jita, roll a dice and then have half the people simply self-destruct. At least that way I get to see a ship explode (my own) which is more then I get when flying in a fleet. Maybe a way to force CCP into action (e.g. suspending new expansions until the game works again) would be to randomly disrupt the empire carebears by moving our fleet fights to Jita, Motsu, Rens or the newbie-systems. That way a huge amount of people will be impacted by CCPs ****ation and the forum would be full of whines (or fuller at least). It would also be fair towards the noobs - then they can quit before having wasted money since the only thing they're getting is an excel sheet for skill training and random black screens.
Hecate Shaw Caldari United Freemerchants Society	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Mortimer Civeri - People are already not logging in. AAA would have bulldozed Providence, weeks ago if they could have mustered up the numbers for a decent fleet. Instead they were apparently flying around in cynabal fleets, which also show how much time they've been playing around running pirate missions and plexes to get those faction ships. - There have been multiple reports of IT failing to get fleet numbers for ops and having to call them. We're talking failing to get 60 dudes in support ships. If IT can't get numbers with their numbers, then they really, really lack motivation. - There are a lot of people, even people who hate Goons to the core, who believe that if even goons can't find/make this game interesting then Eve:Online is dead and done. You'll always have the losers that grind in empire but without vibrant 0.0 politics nothing drives the empire market demands that make grinding in Eve any different from grinding in any other MMO. At least this is what I'm seeing from reading various threads. Not saying it's all valid or true but factor in some of the more individual political stuff and large chunks of 0.0 could be looking at significant collapse if this NC/SC war can't keep dudes logging in. Just to raise a single point that sort of contradicts your doom-saying...you are right, without an active 0.0 the markets in Empire would wither. The reality check for your pronouncements, then, is to check the markets - we should see a massive fall in prices for most items and a huge rise in prices on those goods (faction ships and implants, to name two) that flow OUT of 0.0 as supply dries up. A quick check of the market indicates that you are wrong, thus far. Looks like we can put the life-support gear away, the patient isn't dying after all. Stercus accidit
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:14:00 - [18] theres a few different ways to play eve to get what you want out of it. I prefer using lots of different ships in small fights no more than 50 (per side) as a max. Poeple who are part of a large allience that pays for their ships tend to prefer smacking each other to actually fighting and its more about bragging rights after a spy collapses (or claims to have) an alleince. Supprisingly i do not 'do' 0.0 any more for the reasons listed above, with the addition of titan fights/bridging. It just got boring for me as my small fast fun fights were turning longer and heavy ships until nodes crash or outnumber the opposition with your pilots loading in the 'battle' solar system. TL;DR if you cant take the heat - get out of the kitchen.
K'uata Sayus IntelCor	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:40:00 - [19] As a friend of mine used to say: "A.M.F., and I don't mean 'Adios, my friend." Anyway, there seems to be some contradictions here: Promote large fleet battles, which has terrible lag as a side effect, then put a lot of resources into solving lag including gimping sound, turret effects, engine trails, etc? But as was mentioned in an above post, this is an intended mechanic to reduce fleet battles and devolve alliance conflict to gang warfare of around 50 ships ea? Change the sovereignty mechanics so that it is so difficult and expensive the whole concept of large alliances owning space is too cumbersome and difficult to manage? Seems a bit confusing to me, I can't imagine the RL time it takes for players to manage all this effectively for their alliances. Maybe that's the next step: hiring Korean gamers full time to manage your alliance since the game's alliance/sovereignty complexity has outgrown any similarity to "casual" play. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:34:00 - [20] Confirming EVE is dying. However, long-term players will know that this happens every year. Must be some seasonal thing...

000Hunter000 Gallente Industrial Exploits Massive Intergalactic Love Klub	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:07:00 - [21] Oh no... the sky is falling... the sky is falling... volcanoes exploding everywhere... cats and dogs living together... it's the end of the world as we know it... ... Confirming this is the gazzillionth time i heard people squeeling that eve is dying ________________________________________________
PeaceOfMind Caldari Ethical Business Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:11:00 - [22] Confirming that Eve is dead. In light of this post CCP has taken Eve out back and shot it to keep it from suffering a slow death. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Crumplecorn - Nobody wants to fight in 0.0 due to lag - Alliances fall apart due to high costs to maintain space - Power blocs disappear - Smaller groups who only take space they use and fight non-blobby battles inherit 0.0 - Just as planned A guy can dream. [tinfoil]All part of ccp's plan to rid the game of the olde guard who actively resist and counter ccp's every move to better the game because they want to keep the long standing status quo. Think of it as Obama vs The Entrenched Entitled Industrialists if you will.[/tinfoil] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Crumplecorn - Nobody wants to fight in 0.0 due to lag - Alliances fall apart due to high costs to maintain space - Power blocs disappear - Smaller groups who only take space they use and fight non-blobby battles inherit 0.0 - Just as planned A guy can dream. [tinfoil]All part of ccp's plan to rid the game of the olde guard who actively resist and counter ccp's every move to better the game because they want to keep the long standing status quo. Think of it as Obama vs The Entrenched Entitled Industrialists if you will.[/tinfoil] Comparing CCP to Obama? That's a little harsh towards CCP don't you think? - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Comparing CCP to Obama? That's a little harsh towards CCP don't you think? Yes, but the overall situation is about the same tbh. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Zeba [tinfoil]All part of ccp's plan to rid the game of the olde guard who actively resist and counter ccp's every move to better the game because they want to keep the long standing status quo. Think of it as Obama vs The Entrenched Entitled Industrialists if you will.[/tinfoil] I don't know if Dominion (and soon Tyrannis) can be considered to have made the game better. But their plot is working indeed. Me and a bunch of people I know have already canceled our accounts due to all this crap and probably wont come back until CCP's game is playable again. __________ "Welcome, to city 17. It's safer here."
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Benri Konpaku Originally by: Zeba [tinfoil]All part of ccp's plan to rid the game of the olde guard who actively resist and counter ccp's every move to better the game because they want to keep the long standing status quo. Think of it as Obama vs The Entrenched Entitled Industrialists if you will.[/tinfoil] I don't know if Dominion (and soon Tyrannis) can be considered to have made the game better. But their plot is working indeed. Me and a bunch of people I know have already canceled our accounts due to all this crap and probably wont come back until CCP's game is playable again. If fleet fights didn't get nuked then Dominion would have been considered one of the best expansions evah. But as noone can play the content the way its meant to be played then ya I agree its pretty much considered a failure even if the core content is solid. And sorry to hear that you are cancelling your accounts when there is so much more to do in eve that works perfectly fine that doesn't involve hotdropping cap fleets on an unfortunate ratter in a belt that got tackled by a recon. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Boomershoot EVE Died back at the beginning of 2008, when the best people of the game and the forum of that glorious times left for some reason or another. 2 Years, and people still flogging the dead horse. sorry, EVE died before you were born - Malyutka (The Virus) -


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