Originally by: Mutnin

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Interesting topic, but drifted too far away.

I'm curious too, how you can set up a double-succesful login trap 3 times in a 10 minutes timeframe in systems that are 5 min away from eachother for a recon. Not to mention battleship, even as agile as Mach.

Also, crappy internet? With KpD ratio 30:1? I wouldn't even rat if I have such crappy internet that breaks me from game every 3 min. Having such internet connection and do PvP - and success... double success... many times in a row - it's just unbelievable. Proof or didn't happened.

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He doesn't need to log off.

He simply needs to find the belt they were ratting in and wait with the Arazu. Hell he could even pop probes and get the area around the belt probed out and ready. This way even if someone was at the controls and logged off a second time he could get the warp-able hit before the ship disappeared to get aggro.

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Originally by: Mutnin

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Just because he killed them doesn't mean every kill he gets happens to be a ambush trap. People kill ships even different systems with in minutes of each other all the time.

He could of caught them on a gate.. He might have got lucky and caught one hung up on a asteroid. No one knows but him, everything else is speculation with out all the facts.

If you see him killing ships that fast over and over then yea, it's likely a problem. However you can never put off random targets just showing up, out of no where on your lucky day. Stuff like that happens sometimes.

I'm not saying he does it the way I mentioned, I was just speculating on how might be able to do it with out logging off. Just like the others are accusing him of hacking, they are speculating that he's cheating.

Hell, for all we know those 3 KM's might of been borked. I had a KM last week that was generated with out a time or date. I had to add the time and date in order to post the mail.

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Originally by: Romale

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listen to the bolsheviks cry. ill go ahead an tell you the one thing you can do to stop the madness that is monkeysphere....
you ready?


stop sucking

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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Of course you would track and locator agent a random guy you just happen to see pass you by as you sit cloaked as a scout.

To top this off, its totally believable that you also would then screen shot and fraps said individual because you knew where he was to even bother doing that.

Oh wait, no you didn't, because your locator agent couldn't find him.

So which is it?

He shows in local, and you follow him around snapping screen shots, and frapsing him, after having used a locator agent to pin down which of the 5000 eve solar systems he's in

OR

He doesn't show in local, you saw him once, or heard a story from a corp mate about him, you have no screen shots, you have no fraps (because you can't ever find him, because he never shows in local, and can't be tracked by locator agents) thus making your last post an utter lie, because you have no proof.

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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You don't get it, you're the one making the accusation, YOU ARE THE ONE who bears the burden of proof.

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Originally by: Taua Roqa

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perhaps they just have them added to their address books on alts, with mains logged off in a belt, and when a macrobot logs in (after logging off at a belt - they know what belt they logged off at because of the wrecks left) they log in, autowarp to the same belt...and the macrobot dies :((((

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Originally by: The Crushah

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Anybody here care to make a bet?


I got 100M ISK that says what Monkeysphere is doing is legit within the mechanics of the game and no banning will occur.


Anybody care to take me up on this? Come on, ya bunch of wussies.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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Quote:

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Monkey killed a lot of macro users and there were no troubles. But his recent victims were good russian pilots (not macrousers)! That's why russians began this thread

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I suppose a non macro user who went attacked by an "invisible" player would immediately post a screenshot showing his ship being attacked / blown up while in local no one else is apparently present.
I know I'd do.

What's preventing those "good pilots" from doing that?

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Originally by: Ranka Mei

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This is exactly the sort of thing I suspected a few pages back.

Client-server uses UDP to transmit packets.

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Quote:

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It's in the nature of UDP (as broadcasting protocol) that packets aren't waited for,

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Originally by: species2143

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Dude take a chill pill, the issue has just recently been brought out in the open and already you're putting pressure onto CCP? FFS, they need to verify it and if you had any clue about how the client-side application works, you'd know CCP is not a GESTPO that logs everything you do... in fact it's the very opposite.

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Originally by: Zeba

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Originally by: dumpertt

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not all americans are exploiters, however a lot of cheats are used by them.

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Don't blame america for our immigrants actions. Sheesh do you expect us to change their cultural ways overnight just because they moved here?

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Originally by: Admiral RAGE

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: species2143

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Dude take a chill pill, the issue has just recently been brought out in the open and already you're putting pressure onto CCP? FFS, they need to verify it and if you had any clue about how the client-side application works, you'd know CCP is not a GESTPO that logs everything you do... in fact it's the very opposite.

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For example, in two games I've been working for, they DO LOG EVERYTHING.
Every your shell spent, every point of cap used, everything is logged.
For thousands of characters interacting in the game world. For exactly this same reason - to track player actions and have data on hand if anything goes wrong.
I understand that EVE is "a bit" bigger in scale, but so it spreaded across the cluster, and every single node load is relatively small and very comparable to the load of single game server of any other "MMO" game (frankly, after EVE, no other game feels even close to the first "M" in "MMO" to be prepended by that abbreviation without quotes). Thus I can't see why it's not possible to log every action performed on a node.

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how do you know the logs don't show it? Have you seen the logs? I'm pretty sure that like the rest of the thread, this is all based on ******ed suppositions and no remotely concrete evidence.

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Originally by: Jeremey

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Originally by: Apoctasy

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I don't want to read this whole thread.

Someone give me the tldr

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Russians: cheaters from PL are cheating.

PL: It's whine of starving macrofarmers!

Russians: Look, here are the screens, killmails and victim's testimonies!

PL: There is no exploit! It's just pvp kung-fu!

Russians: Look, here are video and reprosteps of exploit that does the exact same thing that you done.

PL: You will never prove that we're using that exact exploit! We're using another!

Russians: Look, exploit uses the same technology that you trolled about few pages before.

PL: Yes, we're bunch of cheaters and exploiters. Look, we have proof!

Russians: Go be fat somewhere else.

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Originally by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh

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Originally by: Lady Karma

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Have the guys hacking the client managed to make a fraps yet where they are not in local and then appear just before they scramble the macro bot? Don't they all say he is local when he tackles them, bit like what happens when you log in...

The hack they are using to make the crappy "proof" vids needs a restart before the pilot appears in local. So basically nothing like what monkey is doing unless he can manage to relog his client while still keeping the bot tackled, maybe that's another exploit you should look into.

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No this "hack" doesnt need restart. It requires only pressing one more button to reappear in local. If you want demonstration will be made today evening.

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Originally by: Certero

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Originally by: Merchant Queen

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Any pandemic cheaters banned yet?

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As we know nobody banned. But it's ok. As we think server logs don't contain inforamtion such as "user connected to local chat channel" or "user disconnect from local chat channel". it contains only "user entered system" or something like this. I mean there are no server-side checks about local chat. That's why bann is imposible. But i need to remember that main purpose of this thread is to fix bug! (think ccp can do it easily).

PS: but there are other possible exploits that are not reproduced yet.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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Quote:

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Bug is bug, test server is test server. Bugs should be fixed.
That's all

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And general forum is general forum. That is <> "issues and workaround forum" and also <> Sisi feedback forum. Yet, the threadnought - with improper title - is here.
Furthermore, details on similar delicate matters should be talked with the appropriate CCP personnel in charge, not to create a BOOM on the general forum.

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Originally by: Deus Ex'Machina

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Originally by: species2143

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The argumentation that exploiting is ok to counter macrobots is as reasonable as nuclear first-strike to avoid a war. ~snip~

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This is a hole that CCP dug by itself, the game is dead easy to play at its core , once one understands it. Press the button and your internet spaceship mines for 10 minutes during which time you have ~nothing~ else gameplay related to do.

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Originally by: Orephia

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Originally by: Zarstrax

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certainly not consecutive kills in a small amount of time.

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Without needing to add a fancy teleport feature to this bug, if he can join remote locals invisibly, he can find subsequent targets several systems away without needing the time necessary to jump through systems hunting. Send the cloaky spotter directly to the next victim 3 jumps away and the killships follow after they finish up. Saves alot of time, & can be covered as 'lucky'

edit to repair mangled quote...

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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Originally by: Zeke Mobius

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Closer to 1500 replies and a whole clip of views and yet..... Silence from Iceland....

Will they blame it on the volcano?

Update at 11!

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I know facts and the truth shouldn't really be brought into this thread (we've come so far without it), but for those keeping score, CCP have commented in this thread yo.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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Edit: imagine also the "era" of when the original architecture was made and how much stringent conditions were applied (ie much lower bandwidth, slower servers, way slower DB server...).

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Quote:

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A relatively easy set of techniques would reveal the whole grid list including the masked out ones.

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Originally by: Seh Cunderri

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I agree that the best solution to the problem would be to remove local in 0.0 space.

It will get more exciting, tricky, harder for bots, less lag, no "does not appear in local" cheats

It's perfect

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Originally by: Silent Wispa

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I'm sorry, I was being polite, but as thats leading to misunderstanding I'll drop that tack now.

What I mean is, its absolutely impossible for anyone no matter how bright to decypher what means what with the Eve-Online client stream in a mere 2 hours. Infact the majority of the Devs would need more than 2 hours.

The reason it only took huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh and co. 2 hours is because they had already done it some time ago as they take a very deep interest in how the client works for the production of macro programs. What they've done here is taken the information they've already been using - ie watching the local stream for new clients to automatically move a ship ratting to safety and instead spoofed information to prevent the client appearing in local at all. Then they've gone and stated this must be exactly what the accussed is doing because otherwise their macro bots wouldn't have been failing like they have.

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