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allmus
   |
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:08:00 -
[1]
this is a public announcment for all eve players who think that the projectile weapons are broken and unuseable(long range ones inparticual!)
please support this cause by attaining the rally in:
pator(1.0) system
on saturday 4th decemeber, just after downtime.
if you can't come because of security status, please create a new player and attain the event!
this rally is aimed to show CCP that the need to fix projectiles are sort after by a large portion of the eve-online players, and that the "no comment" situation that they have adopted to this problem is unacceptable.
one way or another, we need an answer to the question!
what is the ETA of the projectiles being fixed, when can we expect you to look into them, and most important, why haven't you answered the 10's of 100's of post's about it!
this post was funded by Quafe
now available in minmatar red.
try our new product.
Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW"
limited sales offer before the next universal improvement |
allmus
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 10:08:00 -
[2]
this is a public announcment for all eve players who think that the projectile weapons are broken and unuseable(long range ones inparticual!)
please support this cause by attaining the rally in:
pator(1.0) system
on saturday 4th decemeber, just after downtime.
if you can't come because of security status, please create a new player and attain the event!
this rally is aimed to show CCP that the need to fix projectiles are sort after by a large portion of the eve-online players, and that the "no comment" situation that they have adopted to this problem is unacceptable.
one way or another, we need an answer to the question!
what is the ETA of the projectiles being fixed, when can we expect you to look into them, and most important, why haven't you answered the 10's of 100's of post's about it!
this post was funded by Quafe
now available in minmatar red.
try our new product.
Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW"
limited sales offer before the next universal improvement |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:57:00 -
[3]
By 'fixed' you mean 'able to wtfpwn anything in sight in your big ship' I presume?
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:57:00 -
[4]
By 'fixed' you mean 'able to wtfpwn anything in sight in your big ship' I presume?
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:59:00 -
[5]
lol no fixed as in useful again
doint comment unless u know
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:59:00 -
[6]
lol no fixed as in useful again
doint comment unless u know
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Tokka Konnair
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 18:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 02/12/2004 19:07:04
they're not unusable as people use them
what's the actual main flaw? tracking?
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.12.02 18:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 02/12/2004 19:07:04
they're not unusable as people use them
what's the actual main flaw? tracking?
__________________________________________
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:06:00 -
[9]
The main flaw is dmg to range ratio. As it stand right now, a tachyon laser with radio crystal can out dmg and out range a 1400mm with nuclear ammo, by a BIG range.
I myself have brought up this argument in the past several times as I pilot a Tempest. How in the hell does artillary( by the very DEFINITION of the word- LONG range area-of-effect) get out ranged and out dmg'd by a laser! Artillary does not lose dmg from range, and a projectile can travel as far as it wants, until acted upon by another force or it hits something.
I understand, that the ships will have max ranges and all, but give me a F***ing break when a laser shoots farther and stronger than an artillary cannon!
Deadzone
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Deadzone
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 19:06:00 -
[10]
The main flaw is dmg to range ratio. As it stand right now, a tachyon laser with radio crystal can out dmg and out range a 1400mm with nuclear ammo, by a BIG range.
I myself have brought up this argument in the past several times as I pilot a Tempest. How in the hell does artillary( by the very DEFINITION of the word- LONG range area-of-effect) get out ranged and out dmg'd by a laser! Artillary does not lose dmg from range, and a projectile can travel as far as it wants, until acted upon by another force or it hits something.
I understand, that the ships will have max ranges and all, but give me a F***ing break when a laser shoots farther and stronger than an artillary cannon!
Deadzone
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Tokka Konnair
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 19:08:00 -
[11]
that sounded like a reality comparison
on the Eve forum? doesn't belong 
__________________________________________
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:08:00 -
[12]
that sounded like a reality comparison
on the Eve forum? doesn't belong
__________________________________________
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Drang
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:37:00 -
[13]
Actually, it goes deeper than that.
Light beam type weapons should diminish over time, the particles scatter over distance, just pure physics there. With lasers you have ammo-less powerful weapons and with the right ship and capacitor booster, one can virtually shoot forever with no ammo penalties or reloading time. Yeah, way overpowered. Laser weapons should be very close range only, with longer ranges sucking down cap power fast, as that would be comparable to real life.
Projectile weapons in space SHOULD be the best type actually. As pointed out when an object in a void has momentum, unless it hits something, it would have a nearly infinate range. But thats not to be actually. It should be like 'If we can lock target, we can hit it with projectiles' Mind you by comparison, projectiles are SLOW when compared to a beam of light. While they SHOULD be able to go incredible distances, the accuracy would suck the longer it flies as the target normally is not standing still. The only other issue I have with projectiles is the rate of fire. I can empty the clip of my Python in 5 seconds (15 rounds) or less, and on todays' Navy ships the phalynx system can spit out a whopping 3000 rounds a second (Used as missile defense rather than offense) But look at EVE, we have amazing starships with incredible technology far in the future of mankind but yet the Projectile weapons are no better than the early 1900's....
Here is some of my ideas for more realistic Projectiles in EVE:
1. Cut the Damage in HALF. (Read on before flaming please)
2. Quadruple the Firing rate, with high end units hitting as much as 10 times a second, but no lower than twice a second.
3. Increase the range by a factor of 10x, double the optimum range, but beyond that the accuracy has a steep fall off.
Think about it !
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Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 19:37:00 -
[14]
Actually, it goes deeper than that.
Light beam type weapons should diminish over time, the particles scatter over distance, just pure physics there. With lasers you have ammo-less powerful weapons and with the right ship and capacitor booster, one can virtually shoot forever with no ammo penalties or reloading time. Yeah, way overpowered. Laser weapons should be very close range only, with longer ranges sucking down cap power fast, as that would be comparable to real life.
Projectile weapons in space SHOULD be the best type actually. As pointed out when an object in a void has momentum, unless it hits something, it would have a nearly infinate range. But thats not to be actually. It should be like 'If we can lock target, we can hit it with projectiles' Mind you by comparison, projectiles are SLOW when compared to a beam of light. While they SHOULD be able to go incredible distances, the accuracy would suck the longer it flies as the target normally is not standing still. The only other issue I have with projectiles is the rate of fire. I can empty the clip of my Python in 5 seconds (15 rounds) or less, and on todays' Navy ships the phalynx system can spit out a whopping 3000 rounds a second (Used as missile defense rather than offense) But look at EVE, we have amazing starships with incredible technology far in the future of mankind but yet the Projectile weapons are no better than the early 1900's....
Here is some of my ideas for more realistic Projectiles in EVE:
1. Cut the Damage in HALF. (Read on before flaming please)
2. Quadruple the Firing rate, with high end units hitting as much as 10 times a second, but no lower than twice a second.
3. Increase the range by a factor of 10x, double the optimum range, but beyond that the accuracy has a steep fall off.
Think about it !
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:40:00 -
[15]
Long range projectiles do need a tweak.
Especially the tracking is a problem but there are other issues.
I would also like to see some skill that priomarily benefits the proj weapons as the suposed biggest bonus of proj weapons is the fact that the guns drain very little if any cap when fired, there are however a multitude of ways a player can decrease the amount of cap needed for the laser and hybrid weapons not to mention that minmatar ships already compensate for this by having crappy cap recharge rate.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:40:00 -
[16]
Long range projectiles do need a tweak.
Especially the tracking is a problem but there are other issues.
I would also like to see some skill that priomarily benefits the proj weapons as the suposed biggest bonus of proj weapons is the fact that the guns drain very little if any cap when fired, there are however a multitude of ways a player can decrease the amount of cap needed for the laser and hybrid weapons not to mention that minmatar ships already compensate for this by having crappy cap recharge rate.
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.02 19:58:00 -
[17]
As it stands
They have
worse tracking
worse DOT
Worse Ammo
Worse range
But they do use little cap
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 19:58:00 -
[18]
As it stands
They have
worse tracking
worse DOT
Worse Ammo
Worse range
But they do use little cap
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 20:14:00 -
[19]
CCP has even acknowledged this and said that it would be worked on but "NOT" before Exodus. It will be done after Exodus which was only last week, so give them some time (read: give them more than a couple of days, maybe a month or 2)
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:14:00 -
[20]
CCP has even acknowledged this and said that it would be worked on but "NOT" before Exodus. It will be done after Exodus which was only last week, so give them some time (read: give them more than a couple of days, maybe a month or 2)
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Drang
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:25:00 -
[21]
 Originally by: Balsak
CCP has even acknowledged this and said that it would be worked on but "NOT" before Exodus. It will be done after Exodus which was only last week, so give them some time (read: give them more than a couple of days, maybe a month or 2)
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
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Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 20:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Balsak
CCP has even acknowledged this and said that it would be worked on but "NOT" before Exodus. It will be done after Exodus which was only last week, so give them some time (read: give them more than a couple of days, maybe a month or 2)
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
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Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 20:34:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
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Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 20:34:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
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Zen Later
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:59:00 -
[25]
Do believe that it's been said before...
The problem with projectiles (and railguns afaik) is the tracking formula. It's too extreme.
Yes, 1400's could strike incredibly hard there was always that 'roll the dice' scenerio built into the game so you aren't consistantly landing crazy damage shots one after the other. There's also that untouchable frig thing that has to be factored in  .
Fix them but also fix railguns at the same time...let's get back to the time of each race's weapons on each race's ships.
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Zen Later
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Posted - 2004.12.02 20:59:00 -
[26]
Do believe that it's been said before...
The problem with projectiles (and railguns afaik) is the tracking formula. It's too extreme.
Yes, 1400's could strike incredibly hard there was always that 'roll the dice' scenerio built into the game so you aren't consistantly landing crazy damage shots one after the other. There's also that untouchable frig thing that has to be factored in .
Fix them but also fix railguns at the same time...let's get back to the time of each race's weapons on each race's ships.
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EagleFour
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:04:00 -
[27]
small correction on the phalanx, its 100 rounds a second 3000 a minute. you usually dont need 3000 rounds FYI. 80% effectiveness.
JOBS - Got Moin?
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EagleFour
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:04:00 -
[28]
small correction on the phalanx, its 100 rounds a second 3000 a minute. you usually dont need 3000 rounds FYI. 80% effectiveness.
JOBS - Got Moin?
|
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 21:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
Not agree with him as he does come accross a bit arrogant but this has been a problem for 5 Months now and thats a hell of a long time
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 21:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
Not agree with him as he does come accross a bit arrogant but this has been a problem for 5 Months now and thats a hell of a long time
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Dsanta
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 21:27:00 -
[31]
ACCESS DENIED
-----------------------------------------------
Linkage |
Dsanta
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 21:27:00 -
[32]
ACCESS DENIED
-----------------------------------------------
Linkage |
Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:35:00 -
[33]
You're right Lord Anubis and everyone knows that there is a problem but it has been said by the devs that they know about the problem. They said this before exodus was released. They also said because of all the work needed to get Exodus ready for release that projectiles wouldn't get a good looking at until after Exodus ships. Then depending on how many bugs there were in Exodus that would determine when they will do it.
Its like me telling you something that you knew and then 5 minutes later me telling you the exact same thing again but getting extremely rude about it. Kinda pointless and silly don't you think ?
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:35:00 -
[34]
You're right Lord Anubis and everyone knows that there is a problem but it has been said by the devs that they know about the problem. They said this before exodus was released. They also said because of all the work needed to get Exodus ready for release that projectiles wouldn't get a good looking at until after Exodus ships. Then depending on how many bugs there were in Exodus that would determine when they will do it.
Its like me telling you something that you knew and then 5 minutes later me telling you the exact same thing again but getting extremely rude about it. Kinda pointless and silly don't you think ?
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:36:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Balsak on 02/12/2004 21:39:13
doh double post
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 21:36:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Balsak on 02/12/2004 21:39:13
doh double post
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:00:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Its like me telling you something that you knew and then 5 minutes later me telling you the exact same thing again but getting extremely rude about it. Kinda pointless and silly don't you think ?
NO Its not.
Fix this damnit.. I'm gonna be at the rally.
Release a patch that adds new features ( means new bugs) before fixing the Bugs from an old patch? Pretty darned stupid if you ask me. Heck, this way we can just postpone bug fixes indefinitely.
Just bring out new stuff... lots of content... bugged to death. We can always look into it in 2040...
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:00:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Its like me telling you something that you knew and then 5 minutes later me telling you the exact same thing again but getting extremely rude about it. Kinda pointless and silly don't you think ?
NO Its not.
Fix this damnit.. I'm gonna be at the rally.
Release a patch that adds new features ( means new bugs) before fixing the Bugs from an old patch? Pretty darned stupid if you ask me. Heck, this way we can just postpone bug fixes indefinitely.
Just bring out new stuff... lots of content... bugged to death. We can always look into it in 2040...
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
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Vegeta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:05:00 -
[39]
Very bad timing, why not do it in the evening?
2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
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Vegeta
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:05:00 -
[40]
Very bad timing, why not do it in the evening?
2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
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Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 22:42:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
They have given you information on their plans. Which is it will be looked at after exodus and the major bugs in exodus are fixed. That means its either currently or in the very near future being looked at. Its not like one guy just decides to sit down and rewrite a bunch of code in 5 minutes and upload the patch and presto its done like some people seem to believe.
CCP has to figure out the exact problem in the code and then has to figure the 'BEST' solution which isn't always the quickest and easiest. They have to make sure the changes they make don't break something else and incorporates with their plans for the future of 'their' game. Yes its their game and not the paying cutomers. Whether you like that or not I really don't care. They are making the game the way they want to. If you don't like it go make your own that you think would be perfect.
Now I suggest you wait for a little while longer and if nothing is done in a month or 2 then you have a good reason to complain but for now it's too early to whine and complain like a little child who wants his cookie now and not for desert.
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:42:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
They have given you information on their plans. Which is it will be looked at after exodus and the major bugs in exodus are fixed. That means its either currently or in the very near future being looked at. Its not like one guy just decides to sit down and rewrite a bunch of code in 5 minutes and upload the patch and presto its done like some people seem to believe.
CCP has to figure out the exact problem in the code and then has to figure the 'BEST' solution which isn't always the quickest and easiest. They have to make sure the changes they make don't break something else and incorporates with their plans for the future of 'their' game. Yes its their game and not the paying cutomers. Whether you like that or not I really don't care. They are making the game the way they want to. If you don't like it go make your own that you think would be perfect.
Now I suggest you wait for a little while longer and if nothing is done in a month or 2 then you have a good reason to complain but for now it's too early to whine and complain like a little child who wants his cookie now and not for desert.
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Hobbsalong
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 22:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
They have given you information on their plans. Which is it will be looked at after exodus and the major bugs in exodus are fixed. That means its either currently or in the very near future being looked at. Its not like one guy just decides to sit down and rewrite a bunch of code in 5 minutes and upload the patch and presto its done like some people seem to believe.
CCP has to figure out the exact problem in the code and then has to figure the 'BEST' solution which isn't always the quickest and easiest. They have to make sure the changes they make don't break something else and incorporates with their plans for the future of 'their' game. Yes its their game and not the paying cutomers. Whether you like that or not I really don't care. They are making the game the way they want to. If you don't like it go make your own that you think would be perfect.
Now I suggest you wait for a little while longer and if nothing is done in a month or 2 then you have a good reason to complain but for now it's too early to whine and complain like a little child who wants his cookie now and not for desert.
Again, Bals, all irrelevant.
It was an issue introduced in an old patch. An issue that was acknowledged... and an issue that was ignored.
Vague talk about looking into it after Shiva.. (you added the Shiva bugs and all the issues) doesnt help us who have been awaiting some CONCRETE information on dates.
In the most recent Dev blog, the guy talks about this patch (done today) and the next one sometime around Dec/Jan... BUT MAKES NO MENTION of the mini projectile issue.
I dont care how many issues they have with Shiva, it was common sense to look into issues introduced before Shiva... BEFORE Shiva. Now they have gazzillion more problems (LMFAO I cant undock, cant cycle weps, cant do anything useful right now). Which might take an undetermined time to fix.
ALL we want is some response from the Devs that our issue is being considered...
Heck the issue wasnt even on Oveurs mind (hardly at the top)... it wasnt even mentioned.
I complain because I feel that my training for a certain ship and type of tactic is gimped because Devs wont pay attention to our probs... I complain because I pay for 2 accounts, and wish to feel that we (Minmatar) are an appreciated members of this community.
Dont talk about "will be".. I want something more concrete.. the "will be" has been around since the time the Proj was nerfed.. it still is months later
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:52:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Its a problem.. its been acknowledged.. then they better get around to fixing it... or atleast giving us some information on there plans..
They have given you information on their plans. Which is it will be looked at after exodus and the major bugs in exodus are fixed. That means its either currently or in the very near future being looked at. Its not like one guy just decides to sit down and rewrite a bunch of code in 5 minutes and upload the patch and presto its done like some people seem to believe.
CCP has to figure out the exact problem in the code and then has to figure the 'BEST' solution which isn't always the quickest and easiest. They have to make sure the changes they make don't break something else and incorporates with their plans for the future of 'their' game. Yes its their game and not the paying cutomers. Whether you like that or not I really don't care. They are making the game the way they want to. If you don't like it go make your own that you think would be perfect.
Now I suggest you wait for a little while longer and if nothing is done in a month or 2 then you have a good reason to complain but for now it's too early to whine and complain like a little child who wants his cookie now and not for desert.
Again, Bals, all irrelevant.
It was an issue introduced in an old patch. An issue that was acknowledged... and an issue that was ignored.
Vague talk about looking into it after Shiva.. (you added the Shiva bugs and all the issues) doesnt help us who have been awaiting some CONCRETE information on dates.
In the most recent Dev blog, the guy talks about this patch (done today) and the next one sometime around Dec/Jan... BUT MAKES NO MENTION of the mini projectile issue.
I dont care how many issues they have with Shiva, it was common sense to look into issues introduced before Shiva... BEFORE Shiva. Now they have gazzillion more problems (LMFAO I cant undock, cant cycle weps, cant do anything useful right now). Which might take an undetermined time to fix.
ALL we want is some response from the Devs that our issue is being considered...
Heck the issue wasnt even on Oveurs mind (hardly at the top)... it wasnt even mentioned.
I complain because I feel that my training for a certain ship and type of tactic is gimped because Devs wont pay attention to our probs... I complain because I pay for 2 accounts, and wish to feel that we (Minmatar) are an appreciated members of this community.
Dont talk about "will be".. I want something more concrete.. the "will be" has been around since the time the Proj was nerfed.. it still is months later
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.02 23:40:00 -
[45]
Quote:
It was an issue introduced in an old patch. An issue that was acknowledged... and an issue that was ignored.
Not ignored. It was stated when it would be looked at.
Quote:
Vague talk about looking into it after Shiva.. (you added the Shiva bugs and all the issues) doesnt help us who have been awaiting some CONCRETE information on dates.
When they have concrete info im sure they will tell us. Why would they want to give us hard date when they themselves don;t know it.
Quote:
(LMFAO I cant undock, cant cycle weps, cant do anything useful right now)
While some people are having this problem. Its not a problem for me. Wouldn't you rather have this problem fixed before dedicating time to fixing projectiles ?
Quote:
ALL we want is some response from the Devs that our issue is being considered...
Again you have had this response. It is being considered and will be looked at when other more pressing issues are taken care of.
Quote:
I complain because I feel that my training for a certain ship and type of tactic is gimped because Devs wont pay attention to our probs... I complain because I pay for 2 accounts, and wish to feel that we (Minmatar) are an appreciated members of this community.
In case you haven't i'm Minmatar myself and I have specialized in projectiles. No laser skills and hybrids are only up to medium level 1.
Quote:
Dont talk about "will be".. I want something more concrete.. the "will be" has been around since the time the Proj was nerfed.. it still is months later
Will be has only been around since just before exodus, not when the tracking changes came into the game.
Now for all the complaining about projectiles. I have to say that I have no problems with them at all. From what I understand its really only the 1200mm and 1400mm guns that have any real problems. I personally don't fly a battleship eventhough I can if I chose to. I stick to smaller faster ships with autocannons and those work great.
Simpley put. Your questions have been answered. You may not find the answers to your liking but thats your problem not CCPs. You will get a date when they know.
|
Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.02 23:40:00 -
[46]
Quote:
It was an issue introduced in an old patch. An issue that was acknowledged... and an issue that was ignored.
Not ignored. It was stated when it would be looked at.
Quote:
Vague talk about looking into it after Shiva.. (you added the Shiva bugs and all the issues) doesnt help us who have been awaiting some CONCRETE information on dates.
When they have concrete info im sure they will tell us. Why would they want to give us hard date when they themselves don;t know it.
Quote:
(LMFAO I cant undock, cant cycle weps, cant do anything useful right now)
While some people are having this problem. Its not a problem for me. Wouldn't you rather have this problem fixed before dedicating time to fixing projectiles ?
Quote:
ALL we want is some response from the Devs that our issue is being considered...
Again you have had this response. It is being considered and will be looked at when other more pressing issues are taken care of.
Quote:
I complain because I feel that my training for a certain ship and type of tactic is gimped because Devs wont pay attention to our probs... I complain because I pay for 2 accounts, and wish to feel that we (Minmatar) are an appreciated members of this community.
In case you haven't i'm Minmatar myself and I have specialized in projectiles. No laser skills and hybrids are only up to medium level 1.
Quote:
Dont talk about "will be".. I want something more concrete.. the "will be" has been around since the time the Proj was nerfed.. it still is months later
Will be has only been around since just before exodus, not when the tracking changes came into the game.
Now for all the complaining about projectiles. I have to say that I have no problems with them at all. From what I understand its really only the 1200mm and 1400mm guns that have any real problems. I personally don't fly a battleship eventhough I can if I chose to. I stick to smaller faster ships with autocannons and those work great.
Simpley put. Your questions have been answered. You may not find the answers to your liking but thats your problem not CCPs. You will get a date when they know.
|
Orb Lati
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 09:38:00 -
[47]
This Event has been proposed with a thread withinn the ships and modual forumns.
This thread has gotten around 12 pages long and has been around for many months.
Many players feel a bit frustrated that there hasnt been a concrete responce from CCP regarding this issue beyond gossip amoung players that CCP are aware of the problem and will address it "eventually"
Part of this frustration is a perceved belief that CCP do not take our concerns serously when an important game issue is delayed over and over while small minor changes and balances occur quite often.
While this event may be ignored by the powers that be, it should have a positive side in that it allows players to "vent" thier frustations a bit and also realise that other players are effected by it. (as in if others are sticking with it and staying in the game, maybe i should as well)
I would hope that CCP has at least some responce (even if its only PR) and they really need to clarify exactly what sort of time frame we are looking at until that can schedule this balance in, ie weeks a month, or more.
While i do appreciate the work CCP has done to bring us Shiva, i do have to reluctanly agree that a fix for this issue should not have been delayed until after the expansions release.
Anyway while we might be called whiners for *****ing about this issue, it should be pointed out that if we didnt whine it wouldnt get fixed 
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Orb Lati
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 09:38:00 -
[48]
This Event has been proposed with a thread withinn the ships and modual forumns.
This thread has gotten around 12 pages long and has been around for many months.
Many players feel a bit frustrated that there hasnt been a concrete responce from CCP regarding this issue beyond gossip amoung players that CCP are aware of the problem and will address it "eventually"
Part of this frustration is a perceved belief that CCP do not take our concerns serously when an important game issue is delayed over and over while small minor changes and balances occur quite often.
While this event may be ignored by the powers that be, it should have a positive side in that it allows players to "vent" thier frustations a bit and also realise that other players are effected by it. (as in if others are sticking with it and staying in the game, maybe i should as well)
I would hope that CCP has at least some responce (even if its only PR) and they really need to clarify exactly what sort of time frame we are looking at until that can schedule this balance in, ie weeks a month, or more.
While i do appreciate the work CCP has done to bring us Shiva, i do have to reluctanly agree that a fix for this issue should not have been delayed until after the expansions release.
Anyway while we might be called whiners for *****ing about this issue, it should be pointed out that if we didnt whine it wouldnt get fixed
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Lucre
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lord Anubis
Not agree with him as he does come accross a bit arrogant but this has been a problem for 5 Months now and thats a hell of a long time
True. Equally, how many months did Tachyons reign supreme - with everyone, Amarr or otherwise, fitting them - before ccp got around to nerfing them? And how many more months was it then of Amarr pilots flying with railguns, blasters and 1400s before ccp got around to acknowledging that maybe they'd nerfed lasers a bit too much?
There's obviously a problem with large projectiles - if you doubt, just look how many people aren't flying Tempests and Typhoons at the moment. Equally, and by the same measure looking at the number of Ravens I think it's apparent that missiles are still a bit overpowered.
However I suspect that whilst tweaking a few parameters might indeed be easy, ccp absolutely *don't* want to set a precedent of doing this, otherwise they'll then be forever expected to make small frequent 'tweaks' of this kind. And frustrating as it may be - I spent months waiting for them to give lasers some 'loving' - if this is their view then I can see their point.
|
Lucre
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 10:17:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lord Anubis
Not agree with him as he does come accross a bit arrogant but this has been a problem for 5 Months now and thats a hell of a long time
True. Equally, how many months did Tachyons reign supreme - with everyone, Amarr or otherwise, fitting them - before ccp got around to nerfing them? And how many more months was it then of Amarr pilots flying with railguns, blasters and 1400s before ccp got around to acknowledging that maybe they'd nerfed lasers a bit too much?
There's obviously a problem with large projectiles - if you doubt, just look how many people aren't flying Tempests and Typhoons at the moment. Equally, and by the same measure looking at the number of Ravens I think it's apparent that missiles are still a bit overpowered.
However I suspect that whilst tweaking a few parameters might indeed be easy, ccp absolutely *don't* want to set a precedent of doing this, otherwise they'll then be forever expected to make small frequent 'tweaks' of this kind. And frustrating as it may be - I spent months waiting for them to give lasers some 'loving' - if this is their view then I can see their point.
|
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:39:00 -
[51]
Okay my apologies if this was a damage issue, I just got the impression you were ticked because you couldn't wtfpwn stuff with 1400 like you could before tracking happened. Remember, this game is about having the right ship for the job, not just cruising around in the biggest hunk of metal you can afford. That attitude, and the idea that tech2 should be unilaterally uber, is the root of all the current unbalance problems. Ideally artillery should have very long range, very high damage, low rate of fire, and crappy tracking. Rails shoudl have about equal range but less damage capacity, and better tracking--sparring weapons, as opposed to arty which is for shelling big slow stuff you dont like. Lasers should be a more middle of the road weapon, stand out for not using ammo. And blasters=cannons=pulselasers=short range gank machines.
As for missles, theyre actually not overpowered. They have their uses, theyre good as NPC killers but not so great for PvP as damage output is less than impressive (CM frigate gank being the exception to this statement). Which is good, there needs to be a way to deal with NPC to make money without totally fudging up pvp, vice versa. I can think of a good solution to the whole issue, but it would involve about 2 weeks of intensive coding and redesigning how combat is carried out, and on top of that I cant be arsed to post it tonight. 
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:39:00 -
[52]
Okay my apologies if this was a damage issue, I just got the impression you were ticked because you couldn't wtfpwn stuff with 1400 like you could before tracking happened. Remember, this game is about having the right ship for the job, not just cruising around in the biggest hunk of metal you can afford. That attitude, and the idea that tech2 should be unilaterally uber, is the root of all the current unbalance problems. Ideally artillery should have very long range, very high damage, low rate of fire, and crappy tracking. Rails shoudl have about equal range but less damage capacity, and better tracking--sparring weapons, as opposed to arty which is for shelling big slow stuff you dont like. Lasers should be a more middle of the road weapon, stand out for not using ammo. And blasters=cannons=pulselasers=short range gank machines.
As for missles, theyre actually not overpowered. They have their uses, theyre good as NPC killers but not so great for PvP as damage output is less than impressive (CM frigate gank being the exception to this statement). Which is good, there needs to be a way to deal with NPC to make money without totally fudging up pvp, vice versa. I can think of a good solution to the whole issue, but it would involve about 2 weeks of intensive coding and redesigning how combat is carried out, and on top of that I cant be arsed to post it tonight.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Xelios
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:48:00 -
[53]
I dunno, a well fit Raven with good skills at close range will hit for over 500 damage per torp easily, it's like a wrecking hit with a top-end large turret every time. I don't think they're overpowered though, it's just easy to see why people would think they are.
As for artillery the problem is simple. Yes, you can make them hit well, but you have to put a LOT of effort into them to do so, and if anyone puts even half that effort into another ship like the Apoc they'll still waste your Tempest. Sure 1400's can hit well with 3 tracking comps, but you shouldn't need 3 tracking comps just to hit on par with the other BS out there.
Long range Tempests have a bit of a place in fleet battles, beyond that they're almost useless.
|
Xelios
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 11:48:00 -
[54]
I dunno, a well fit Raven with good skills at close range will hit for over 500 damage per torp easily, it's like a wrecking hit with a top-end large turret every time. I don't think they're overpowered though, it's just easy to see why people would think they are.
As for artillery the problem is simple. Yes, you can make them hit well, but you have to put a LOT of effort into them to do so, and if anyone puts even half that effort into another ship like the Apoc they'll still waste your Tempest. Sure 1400's can hit well with 3 tracking comps, but you shouldn't need 3 tracking comps just to hit on par with the other BS out there.
Long range Tempests have a bit of a place in fleet battles, beyond that they're almost useless.
|
Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
Thanks! your exactly right on that! Currently I am a customer, but previously I was working for Verant. Item statistics and variables are kept in an external database and compiled in the server code at the moment it is built. This allows devs to test code and alter items on the fly. I have faith in the CCP programmers that they would not hard code values right inside the program itself, that would just be plain stupid and become near impossible to ever repair with a codebase that size.
To the server and the game, all waepons are exactly the same. The only difference is what we see. (The name and the graphic icon) The game looks at your weapon, sees the different variables that determine how it works and use that to calculate your damage. There could be 30-60 variables involved in a weapon, for example:
struct {
char name;
char longname;
char description;
char slottype;
int maxdam;
int dammod;
int weapontype;
}
This could go on for a TON more variables for speed, and such. To clarify, if you take a weapon and change one variable, say weapontype from a 0 to a 1 it just changed from a hybrid to a projectile. More than likely the server uses the EXACT same subroutines to process firing and damage for all weapontypes. (Mind you I am NOT including flight weapons as they dont travel in a straight line, which requires a bit more code to handle)
So yeah, I believe I DO have an idea and feel I DO know what I am talking about. Am I positive? Hell no, I have never seen the server code and prolly never will. But hey, I know its not as big a problem to fix as they make it out to be. More than likely they are just busy on other things.
|
Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 12:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Balsak
Quote:
Why should I? Tweaking the projectiles to realistic means and bringing them up to par with other lines of weapons is a matter of 10 minutes changing variables in a database. This requires no coding nightmares, no high-dollar programmer to think about, jsut a flunkie to change a few values and presto, its all done.
Why should you ? Well you don't really have to wait, you could just leave the game and come back when they are to you liking.
I didn't know you knew so much about Eves code that you yourself could fix the problem in just 10 minutes. Gee maybe you should be working for ccp or even better go make your own game.
You sound like one of those "Im the customer and I know everything" people.
Thanks! your exactly right on that! Currently I am a customer, but previously I was working for Verant. Item statistics and variables are kept in an external database and compiled in the server code at the moment it is built. This allows devs to test code and alter items on the fly. I have faith in the CCP programmers that they would not hard code values right inside the program itself, that would just be plain stupid and become near impossible to ever repair with a codebase that size.
To the server and the game, all waepons are exactly the same. The only difference is what we see. (The name and the graphic icon) The game looks at your weapon, sees the different variables that determine how it works and use that to calculate your damage. There could be 30-60 variables involved in a weapon, for example:
struct {
char name;
char longname;
char description;
char slottype;
int maxdam;
int dammod;
int weapontype;
}
This could go on for a TON more variables for speed, and such. To clarify, if you take a weapon and change one variable, say weapontype from a 0 to a 1 it just changed from a hybrid to a projectile. More than likely the server uses the EXACT same subroutines to process firing and damage for all weapontypes. (Mind you I am NOT including flight weapons as they dont travel in a straight line, which requires a bit more code to handle)
So yeah, I believe I DO have an idea and feel I DO know what I am talking about. Am I positive? Hell no, I have never seen the server code and prolly never will. But hey, I know its not as big a problem to fix as they make it out to be. More than likely they are just busy on other things.
|
Xelios
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 13:01:00 -
[57]
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
|
Xelios
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 13:01:00 -
[58]
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
|
Soren
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 14:48:00 -
[59]
This deserves first page.
Common CCP, pwetty pwease!
_________________________________________________________
|
Soren
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 14:48:00 -
[60]
This deserves first page.
Common CCP, pwetty pwease!
_________________________________________________________
|
Grievance
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 15:10:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Lucre
looking at the number of Ravens I think it's apparent that missiles are still a bit overpowered.
i actually changed from missiles to rails on my ferox so i could actually kill the npcs before i lost the will to live.
all this bollox about missiles being overpowered is bs, they are just easy to skill up for and easy to fly, thats why people like them. an apoc can out-damage and out tank a raven, and still fit a couple of damage mods. remember, while an apoc can tank forever, a raven can only tank for 2mins or so, and thats its weakness - plus wizzin gaway from him at 3km/s is an idea too :)
o yea, and fix the projectiles... but first, fix the goddamn ui, theres no point in having uber guns if you cant even see who is who so you can fight 8)
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |
Grievance
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 15:10:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lucre
looking at the number of Ravens I think it's apparent that missiles are still a bit overpowered.
i actually changed from missiles to rails on my ferox so i could actually kill the npcs before i lost the will to live.
all this bollox about missiles being overpowered is bs, they are just easy to skill up for and easy to fly, thats why people like them. an apoc can out-damage and out tank a raven, and still fit a couple of damage mods. remember, while an apoc can tank forever, a raven can only tank for 2mins or so, and thats its weakness - plus wizzin gaway from him at 3km/s is an idea too :)
o yea, and fix the projectiles... but first, fix the goddamn ui, theres no point in having uber guns if you cant even see who is who so you can fight 8)
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |
TekRa
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 15:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Balsak
Now for all the complaining about projectiles. I have to say that I have no problems with them at all. From what I understand its really only the 1200mm and 1400mm guns that have any real problems. I personally don't fly a battleship eventhough I can if I chose to. I stick to smaller faster ships with autocannons and those work great.
great, so at least we know you have no experiance with large projectiles. try them and then come back here and say you can wait another x amount of months for your weapons to be useful.
I've used S, M and L and can safely say that I found s & m projectiles to work pretty well, and L to be completly *ucked and just gimp my Tempest. As things are now I may as well just fly a rupture.
This issue has been around so long, telling people to wait another month, then another month just isn't helping, like has been said before surly it's not one of the biggest problems to solve and should have been fixed pre-exodus imho.
> With the lights out it's less dangerous. |
TekRa
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 15:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Balsak
Now for all the complaining about projectiles. I have to say that I have no problems with them at all. From what I understand its really only the 1200mm and 1400mm guns that have any real problems. I personally don't fly a battleship eventhough I can if I chose to. I stick to smaller faster ships with autocannons and those work great.
great, so at least we know you have no experiance with large projectiles. try them and then come back here and say you can wait another x amount of months for your weapons to be useful.
I've used S, M and L and can safely say that I found s & m projectiles to work pretty well, and L to be completly *ucked and just gimp my Tempest. As things are now I may as well just fly a rupture.
This issue has been around so long, telling people to wait another month, then another month just isn't helping, like has been said before surly it's not one of the biggest problems to solve and should have been fixed pre-exodus imho.
> With the lights out it's less dangerous. |
Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 16:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Xelios
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
Heh, no, sorry. I started as GM Tal on Cazic thule, then ended up as a programmer for customer service. (Translation: Fixing,creating,and interpereting log files to catch scammers and hackers)
|
Drang
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 16:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xelios
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
Heh, no, sorry. I started as GM Tal on Cazic thule, then ended up as a programmer for customer service. (Translation: Fixing,creating,and interpereting log files to catch scammers and hackers)
|
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 17:21:00 -
[67]
As it stands and as i feel
CCp right now havent got the time to fix proj there hunting bugs (said so there selfs)
But they got the time to nerf/Fix oversized AB and mwd no to metion there next patch is based on it.
LOL
All this says to me is **** you and your ****ty wepons we dont giva a flying **** and go **** for self as we havent got time for you you silly ****er
(ps quote me to fill in the bleeps)
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 17:21:00 -
[68]
As it stands and as i feel
CCp right now havent got the time to fix proj there hunting bugs (said so there selfs)
But they got the time to nerf/Fix oversized AB and mwd no to metion there next patch is based on it.
LOL
All this says to me is **** you and your ****ty wepons we dont giva a flying **** and go **** for self as we havent got time for you you silly ****er
(ps quote me to fill in the bleeps)
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
LocalHost
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 17:40:00 -
[69]
This Rally will be crushed by the very player who authored it!! Don't be a part of his failure! If you show up in Pator make sure its an alt ready to pod any member of this uprising! 
|Father of 1|Master of All| |
LocalHost
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 17:40:00 -
[70]
This Rally will be crushed by the very player who authored it!! Don't be a part of his failure! If you show up in Pator make sure its an alt ready to pod any member of this uprising!
|Father of 1|Master of All| |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 18:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Xelios
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
No way! I love Tanny too, you might have known me as bogus tho I came to it rather late. Eventually migrated to another SOE game (Infantry) and wound up here after it died.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 18:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xelios
You worked for Verant eh? Did you by any chance work on Tanarus? Because that's one of my favorite games of all time =)
No way! I love Tanny too, you might have known me as bogus tho I came to it rather late. Eventually migrated to another SOE game (Infantry) and wound up here after it died.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 18:47:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Balsak on 03/12/2004 18:50:45
CCP knows. All your protests / rallys / whines won't do a thing in changing when projectiles get fixed.
Exodus being delayed so long pushed back projectile work. If Exodus released in September then pjojectiles might have been fixed for now but Exodus wasn't released then so live with it.
Oh yeah did any of even stop to think that maybe the AB / MWD changes may slow down ships enough that projectiles might actually work the way they were intended ??
It always amazes me how person A loves to tell person B how to do their job even when person A knows nothing at all of person Bs job.
|
Balsak
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 18:47:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Balsak on 03/12/2004 18:50:45
CCP knows. All your protests / rallys / whines won't do a thing in changing when projectiles get fixed.
Exodus being delayed so long pushed back projectile work. If Exodus released in September then pjojectiles might have been fixed for now but Exodus wasn't released then so live with it.
Oh yeah did any of even stop to think that maybe the AB / MWD changes may slow down ships enough that projectiles might actually work the way they were intended ??
It always amazes me how person A loves to tell person B how to do their job even when person A knows nothing at all of person Bs job.
|
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 19:48:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Lord Anubis on 03/12/2004 19:51:57
Originally by: Balsak
Edited by: Balsak on 03/12/2004 18:50:45
CCP knows. All your protests / rallys / whines won't do a thing in changing when projectiles get fixed.
Exodus being delayed so long pushed back projectile work. If Exodus released in September then pjojectiles might have been fixed for now but Exodus wasn't released then so live with it.
Oh yeah did any of even stop to think that maybe the AB / MWD changes may slow down ships enough that projectiles might actually work the way they were intended ??
It always amazes me how person A loves to tell person B how to do their job even when person A knows nothing at all of person Bs job.
Stop trolling mate no one on this forum really cares what u have to say as you your self have said you never use large proj
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 19:48:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Lord Anubis on 03/12/2004 19:51:57
Originally by: Balsak
Edited by: Balsak on 03/12/2004 18:50:45
CCP knows. All your protests / rallys / whines won't do a thing in changing when projectiles get fixed.
Exodus being delayed so long pushed back projectile work. If Exodus released in September then pjojectiles might have been fixed for now but Exodus wasn't released then so live with it.
Oh yeah did any of even stop to think that maybe the AB / MWD changes may slow down ships enough that projectiles might actually work the way they were intended ??
It always amazes me how person A loves to tell person B how to do their job even when person A knows nothing at all of person Bs job.
Stop trolling mate no one on this forum really cares what u have to say as you your self have said you never use large proj
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Seraphim Malificio
|
Posted - 2004.12.03 20:09:00 -
[77]
Signed. Fix the bloody projectile weapons 
- Wisdom is nothing without perception -
CEO, Azraels Disciples
Recruiting join channel "Azras" |
Seraphim Malificio
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Posted - 2004.12.03 20:09:00 -
[78]
Signed. Fix the bloody projectile weapons
- Wisdom is nothing without perception -
CEO, Azraels Disciples
Recruiting join channel "Azras" |
Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.03 21:52:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Stop trolling mate no one on this forum really cares what u have to say as you your self have said you never use large proj
Trolling ?? I guess if you say so then fine im trolling  I never insulted anyone or did anything to break any forum rules. I'm merely pointing out a part of an opinion that is incorrect.
No ive never used large projectiles but I also never claimed them to be unbroken either. In fact I said that its a known issue that they have problems did I not ?? No one is claiming them to be not messed up in some way.
But I will make all of you a little happier now since I won't be posting on this thread any more because is painfully clear that certain people just don't ever care to listen to any ammount of reason.
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Balsak
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Posted - 2004.12.03 21:52:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Stop trolling mate no one on this forum really cares what u have to say as you your self have said you never use large proj
Trolling ?? I guess if you say so then fine im trolling I never insulted anyone or did anything to break any forum rules. I'm merely pointing out a part of an opinion that is incorrect.
No ive never used large projectiles but I also never claimed them to be unbroken either. In fact I said that its a known issue that they have problems did I not ?? No one is claiming them to be not messed up in some way.
But I will make all of you a little happier now since I won't be posting on this thread any more because is painfully clear that certain people just don't ever care to listen to any ammount of reason.
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Zerbot Murega
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Posted - 2004.12.03 22:53:00 -
[81]
aye fix the tracking on em or make a new batch of weapons
as it is atm i do more damage with my 720 then my 1400 which is silly
or we can keep up with this powerplayers united going and have more ppl flying cald ships, ,
Quote from a fellow called Tar om:
Minmatar are a race of truckers and ninja miners! could you please update the backstory asap to prevent anyone else from wasting a year training Minmatar ships in the hope of becoming a PvPer.
which is so true atm
i used to love the smell of phased plasma in the moring cause it reminded me of victory , now days i haul fertilizer cause it reminds me of how much this sux.
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Zerbot Murega
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Posted - 2004.12.03 22:53:00 -
[82]
aye fix the tracking on em or make a new batch of weapons
as it is atm i do more damage with my 720 then my 1400 which is silly
or we can keep up with this powerplayers united going and have more ppl flying cald ships, ,
Quote from a fellow called Tar om:
Minmatar are a race of truckers and ninja miners! could you please update the backstory asap to prevent anyone else from wasting a year training Minmatar ships in the hope of becoming a PvPer.
which is so true atm
i used to love the smell of phased plasma in the moring cause it reminded me of victory , now days i haul fertilizer cause it reminds me of how much this sux.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:44:00 -
[83]
bump
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Orb Lati
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:44:00 -
[84]
bump
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2004.12.04 05:15:00 -
[85]
Another bump 'cause it needs one badly.
Be there, folkz. There's also a thread in the Events Forum.
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Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2004.12.04 05:15:00 -
[86]
Another bump 'cause it needs one badly.
Be there, folkz. There's also a thread in the Events Forum.
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Zerbot Murega
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:14:00 -
[87]
bump
mabye there is a reason ppl complain
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Zerbot Murega
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:14:00 -
[88]
bump
mabye there is a reason ppl complain
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:15:00 -
[89]
I will if you support the make EW highslot fitted again rally 
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:15:00 -
[90]
I will if you support the make EW highslot fitted again rally
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.04 14:09:00 -
[91]
how did it go?
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.04 14:09:00 -
[92]
how did it go?
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Sarkos
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Posted - 2004.12.04 14:44:00 -
[93]
Ok, I have been around since Beta 5. I have seen the ship and weapon changes up until now, and I have dealt with it. Now howver I will unload my thoughts.
It is blatenly obvious that CCP coddles the Amarr. Let me explain.
1) Any Amarr corporation has a huge advantage over any other race. Why? While everyone else needs to spend ISK to buy ammo BPs and time and resources to produce ammo for consumption, the Amarr only need several frequency crystals per weapon. These never burn out and cost virtualy nothing considering the cost everyone else has to pay to maintain thier ships with ammunition. Even without a crystal the lasers are still usable. Why CCP? Why do they not burn out after say 200 shots?
2) Amarr ships are uber tanks. They have the means to be very difficult to hurt, especially when projectiles and hybrids are not even close to the abilities to Amarr weapons. FOr Gods sake, have you seen the Prophesy's special ability? +5% resistance to ALL damage per level. Toss in a few hardners and this ship is darn near innvulnerable. No other races Battle Cruiser can even come close to this ability. Another example of extreme Amarr favoritsm.
3) On top of all this, the beam weapons have the best range, DoT, and accuracy of any other weapon type.
I am not asking to have everyone else superior, but for heavens sake CCP, how about close to par? And please don't tell me that the additional 10 m/s speed the Minmatar ships have is an atvantage. In a battle, that 10m/s means nothing because our enemies can track so much better. 50 m/s would not even this out.
Please forgive the rant but it has been building for a long time. CCP needs to get off thier Amarr kick and give the other three races some loving, we need it.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2004.12.04 14:44:00 -
[94]
Ok, I have been around since Beta 5. I have seen the ship and weapon changes up until now, and I have dealt with it. Now howver I will unload my thoughts.
It is blatenly obvious that CCP coddles the Amarr. Let me explain.
1) Any Amarr corporation has a huge advantage over any other race. Why? While everyone else needs to spend ISK to buy ammo BPs and time and resources to produce ammo for consumption, the Amarr only need several frequency crystals per weapon. These never burn out and cost virtualy nothing considering the cost everyone else has to pay to maintain thier ships with ammunition. Even without a crystal the lasers are still usable. Why CCP? Why do they not burn out after say 200 shots?
2) Amarr ships are uber tanks. They have the means to be very difficult to hurt, especially when projectiles and hybrids are not even close to the abilities to Amarr weapons. FOr Gods sake, have you seen the Prophesy's special ability? +5% resistance to ALL damage per level. Toss in a few hardners and this ship is darn near innvulnerable. No other races Battle Cruiser can even come close to this ability. Another example of extreme Amarr favoritsm.
3) On top of all this, the beam weapons have the best range, DoT, and accuracy of any other weapon type.
I am not asking to have everyone else superior, but for heavens sake CCP, how about close to par? And please don't tell me that the additional 10 m/s speed the Minmatar ships have is an atvantage. In a battle, that 10m/s means nothing because our enemies can track so much better. 50 m/s would not even this out.
Please forgive the rant but it has been building for a long time. CCP needs to get off thier Amarr kick and give the other three races some loving, we need it.
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.04 15:07:00 -
[95]
just had this fort ...
CCP wont fix proj as there trying to kill off the sniper (they said so them selfs) and are just telling us they will for that xtra subscribtion
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.04 15:07:00 -
[96]
just had this fort ...
CCP wont fix proj as there trying to kill off the sniper (they said so them selfs) and are just telling us they will for that xtra subscribtion
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.12.04 15:37:00 -
[97]
Fix this and ignore Balsak, his pointless chatter is irrelevant.
This is an issue and we need more concrete information.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.12.04 15:37:00 -
[98]
Fix this and ignore Balsak, his pointless chatter is irrelevant.
This is an issue and we need more concrete information.
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.05 07:04:00 -
[99]
You know when ur guns are screwed when u fail to hit a prison if ur moving even at 60k range lol
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.05 07:04:00 -
[100]
You know when ur guns are screwed when u fail to hit a prison if ur moving even at 60k range lol
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Xelios
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Posted - 2004.12.05 07:35:00 -
[101]
You know Lord Anubis, normally I wouldn't agree with you, but even I'm beginning to wonder if that's really the case.
If you want the Minmatar to have their main advantage be speed, then they need to travel at least 30% faster than comparable ships in other races. Any less isn't going to do squat. 10m/s faster speed for a BS is totally negligable.
The only downside to Amarr ships right now is that they only do two damage types, which makes them easy to tank against. But really Min ships aren't much different. Sure they *can* do all damage types, but lets take a closer look at that.
If I want to do EM damage I obviously use EMP ammo, but this also comes with a fair bit of explosive damage. This means that no matter if you're shooting at shields or armor, a good portion of your damage is wasted on the highest resistance damage type. On shields you're wasting damage with the explosive component, on armor you're wasting damage with the EM component.
Lets say I wanted to switch to Fusion when I get into the guy's armor. Nevermind the fact that this takes a good 15 seconds to do, assuming no lag, fusion ammo does WAY less damage than EMP would. EMP actually hits for more damage on armor than fusion does! What's the point of switching to specialized ammo if the lower overall damage cancels out the advantage of lower resistance?
So really the ability to do all 4 damage types is not much of an advantage at all, because if you want to switch to another damage type you're likely going to be doing much less overall damage than if you were to just stick with EMP or Phased plasma (which, surprise!, are the two damage types that everyone and their mother hardens against anyway).
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.12.05 07:35:00 -
[102]
You know Lord Anubis, normally I wouldn't agree with you, but even I'm beginning to wonder if that's really the case.
If you want the Minmatar to have their main advantage be speed, then they need to travel at least 30% faster than comparable ships in other races. Any less isn't going to do squat. 10m/s faster speed for a BS is totally negligable.
The only downside to Amarr ships right now is that they only do two damage types, which makes them easy to tank against. But really Min ships aren't much different. Sure they *can* do all damage types, but lets take a closer look at that.
If I want to do EM damage I obviously use EMP ammo, but this also comes with a fair bit of explosive damage. This means that no matter if you're shooting at shields or armor, a good portion of your damage is wasted on the highest resistance damage type. On shields you're wasting damage with the explosive component, on armor you're wasting damage with the EM component.
Lets say I wanted to switch to Fusion when I get into the guy's armor. Nevermind the fact that this takes a good 15 seconds to do, assuming no lag, fusion ammo does WAY less damage than EMP would. EMP actually hits for more damage on armor than fusion does! What's the point of switching to specialized ammo if the lower overall damage cancels out the advantage of lower resistance?
So really the ability to do all 4 damage types is not much of an advantage at all, because if you want to switch to another damage type you're likely going to be doing much less overall damage than if you were to just stick with EMP or Phased plasma (which, surprise!, are the two damage types that everyone and their mother hardens against anyway).
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.12.05 08:04:00 -
[103]
i gave up in the middle of page 2 ;p i do think projies need to be fixed, and as for the fixing statements, they did say in a dev chat or that inter stellar whatever talk thing that they would look into certain races guns (projies) but defiantly not before shiva. thats pretty vague to me but >< give them a break ;p i would loe to hvae them fixed soon though
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.12.05 08:04:00 -
[104]
i gave up in the middle of page 2 ;p i do think projies need to be fixed, and as for the fixing statements, they did say in a dev chat or that inter stellar whatever talk thing that they would look into certain races guns (projies) but defiantly not before shiva. thats pretty vague to me but >< give them a break ;p i would loe to hvae them fixed soon though
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Lorth
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Posted - 2004.12.05 09:14:00 -
[105]
Just in responce to EMP ammo and its damage types/over all damage.
I think you might consider it the best ammo in eve, for these reasons.
For example, a shield tak uses typacally, 1 em 1 therm, 1 kinetic hardener. Which will leave the two lowest resistances as EM and explosive. Meaning that emp ammo is actually the best type of ammo. Perhaps better then lasers, if the guns did equal damage.
The same could be said about an armor tank haveing em and explosive as its two lowest resistances.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2004.12.05 09:14:00 -
[106]
Just in responce to EMP ammo and its damage types/over all damage.
I think you might consider it the best ammo in eve, for these reasons.
For example, a shield tak uses typacally, 1 em 1 therm, 1 kinetic hardener. Which will leave the two lowest resistances as EM and explosive. Meaning that emp ammo is actually the best type of ammo. Perhaps better then lasers, if the guns did equal damage.
The same could be said about an armor tank haveing em and explosive as its two lowest resistances.
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2004.12.05 09:28:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Lord Anubis on 05/12/2004 09:40:12
Emp is good but knocks the gun down to 31 opt range which no 1400 can hit at (unless ur being cheeses)also note this is the lest damging ammo of its class (ie range mod) i think that fussion and depleted are the best ammo. And btw what i said before is true i was moving away from a pirate (using missiles agasint him) while shooting at a prison about 60k from me
From the combat logs i will try to find more lo
Follow the yellow brick road
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 09:28:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Lord Anubis on 05/12/2004 09:40:12
Emp is good but knocks the gun down to 31 opt range which no 1400 can hit at (unless ur being cheeses)also note this is the lest damging ammo of its class (ie range mod) i think that fussion and depleted are the best ammo. And btw what i said before is true i was moving away from a pirate (using missiles agasint him) while shooting at a prison about 60k from me
From the combat logs i will try to find more lo
Follow the yellow brick road
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.12.05 11:48:00 -
[109]
Projectiles are nerfed would be nice to get some luvin 
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
===================================================
What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.12.05 11:48:00 -
[110]
Projectiles are nerfed would be nice to get some luvin
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
===================================================
What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 15:29:00 -
[111]
but thats a long way off if any
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Lord Anubis
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 15:29:00 -
[112]
but thats a long way off if any
You cant beat Death
But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Zerbot Murega
|
Posted - 2004.12.05 16:31:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Zerbot Murega on 05/12/2004 16:34:20
Originally by: Lord Anubis
just had this fort ...
CCP wont fix proj as there trying to kill off the sniper (they said so them selfs) and are just telling us they will for that xtra subscribtion
migth be the case and that makes me wonder if there is something else behind these nerfs then just damage and range issues,
it now sounds more like a bad scam then nerf
a question to cpp :
How in HELL are we sepposed to even RP these nerfs if they dont even correspond to the storyline , i mean im sepposed not to even step on board an other races ship because of pride to mine own, but you guys leave me no option but either train skills for an other race class ( takes frikking time and is a wasted of money) or uuber cruise fitt my battle ship / train every gunnery subskill to lvl5 (which is a waste of time and money for the effort it gives) and be ganked by the rest of the game in pvp (not corp vs corp),
i suggest instead of giving us " bribes " like new ships and PoS fixing a bug here and there , its just a number that has to be re valued /me looks at watch , takes less then 5 min, , fix the damn game and drag yer asess from the local pub and do something about it ,
im not saying you guys slack off over there but you sure make it look like that ,
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Zerbot Murega
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Posted - 2004.12.05 16:31:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Zerbot Murega on 05/12/2004 16:34:20
Originally by: Lord Anubis
just had this fort ...
CCP wont fix proj as there trying to kill off the sniper (they said so them selfs) and are just telling us they will for that xtra subscribtion
migth be the case and that makes me wonder if there is something else behind these nerfs then just damage and range issues,
it now sounds more like a bad scam then nerf
a question to cpp :
How in HELL are we sepposed to even RP these nerfs if they dont even correspond to the storyline , i mean im sepposed not to even step on board an other races ship because of pride to mine own, but you guys leave me no option but either train skills for an other race class ( takes frikking time and is a wasted of money) or uuber cruise fitt my battle ship / train every gunnery subskill to lvl5 (which is a waste of time and money for the effort it gives) and be ganked by the rest of the game in pvp (not corp vs corp),
i suggest instead of giving us " bribes " like new ships and PoS fixing a bug here and there , its just a number that has to be re valued /me looks at watch , takes less then 5 min, , fix the damn game and drag yer asess from the local pub and do something about it ,
im not saying you guys slack off over there but you sure make it look like that ,
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Gortex
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Posted - 2004.12.05 19:00:00 -
[115]
Bump
Im not Minmatar, but I fly a Tempest and a Cyclone.
I use all Proj weapons and I have about 10 BPO of the Ammo I use, and I still see my Friend with his Apoc, out dmg me, hit more then me, and never run out of ammo. But I guess thats what I get for hateing my own people and its goverment.
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Gortex
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Posted - 2004.12.05 19:00:00 -
[116]
Bump
Im not Minmatar, but I fly a Tempest and a Cyclone.
I use all Proj weapons and I have about 10 BPO of the Ammo I use, and I still see my Friend with his Apoc, out dmg me, hit more then me, and never run out of ammo. But I guess thats what I get for hateing my own people and its goverment.
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