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WTZ at 2x cap?

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Kitimortoa	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:07:00 - [31] I hear if you enable medium shader settings you can auto pilot warping to zero.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.04.21 02:05:00 - [32] So if we had auto-WTZ you ALL would be against it? ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.04.21 02:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Taedrin Which is why I said "and prevent people from (ab)using the bookmark/warping mechanisms to create instas." If there aren't any instas, then you won't have bookmarks taking up 80% of the database like in the old days. Anyways, I know it's a pipe dream. But it's a good dream. How do you abuse bookmarks? Abuse is better applied to deep, deep, deep safe spots using the Posiden Maneuver (5 minute over shot and alignment in a BS today for me, was not fun ) or the editing way back when it was allowable. Remove book marks so you can't exploit it (BMs are a convenience) and you might as well shut down EVE because no one wants to jump into a hot system as the only places to fight are at a)Gate (Few dozen BS with smart bombs on gate with logistics RR to defend the gate thats bubbled, nearby sniper fleet to shoot anyone that manages to get to the edge, you are good as dead before you align out) b) Station (We all love station games C) POS (Who likes ****stars or shooting POS aside from a dread?)
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.21 07:11:00 - [34] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr So if we had auto-WTZ you ALL would be against it? Depends on what we'd get in return to benefit those who fly manually. For instance, it would be ok if manual flight made us immune to the auto-gank functions the autopilot should get to balance auto-wtz out (eg. anything that AP-warps to grid gets automatically alpha-struck before it can jump or warp off). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Heikki Gallente Erasers inc. Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.21 07:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr and exactly how is manually WTZ on a 25 jump trip supposed to make the game enjoyable? It may come as a surprise, but games do need artificial challenges to make themfun. Which is where those RL analogies might fail. CCP has all the knowledge to allow instant 100% safe teleports, allow unlimited creation of ISK/items; but such things probably would create boring game. So, reckon currently manual-WTZ is good for giving some advantage to active players, and for giving bigger size impression of the game world. As a sideproduct, also gives something fun to small percentage of people who try to gank people opting for autopilot. Penalties of killing such people in highsec seem to be enough to force logical target selection in most cases. -Lasse who autopilots non-valuable ships
SemiCharmed Clans of the Sanctums	Posted - 2010.04.21 08:02:00 - [36] With one condition, I say give the whining bi*s WTZ with autopilot on, with ONE condition, those who initiate auto pilot are also vulnerable to collide with other objects/ships in space. If CCP were to grant the lazy, whining, silly, stupid little noobs Auto pilot WTZ, then this is how it should be done!!! - So yes, thats means if you warp into zero and land into the gate/ship YOU BLOW UP!!! (there could be a damage fine fromt he gate, i dunno, sounds good). I should really work for CCP, i would make the game, oh so much more deadly and interesting. -------------------------------------------- Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires.**
Lana Trollin Minmatar Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.04.21 08:06:00 - [37] Edited by: Lana Trollin on 21/04/2010 08:07:43 I just voluntarily made about 150 jumps manually and had a p good time doing it. Space is big, and needs to be with the amount of pilots existing on one shard. If you don't like to move about, find a different activity, or pay people to haul or whatever autonomous thing you need to do it. From the amount of disappointment you evidently find in this game, I suggest you either go away, or at the least stop trolling.
Miss Connolly Public Relations Corp	Posted - 2010.04.21 09:59:00 - [38] Edited by: Miss Connolly on 21/04/2010 10:00:24 Originally by: Taedrin To be honest, I think that CCP should go back to warp to 15-km and prevent people from (ab)using the bookmark/warping mechanisms to create instas. I want the old days of solo pirate gate camps back. ^ this. The game was so much more fun back then.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:00:00 - [39] Luckily there are bots that will turn WTZ to automode "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr So if we had auto-WTZ you ALL would be against it? Nah, I've been for it since I realized there was a way to wtz. But most of the people that "play" this game seem to think that travelling is what "playing" a game is all about. Of course, I think it's just a BS excuse for being afraid of loosing their easy mode ganks. I mean, who other than n00bs use AP? And isn't it easy enough to gank n00bs in this game? But maybe eve players are made of failsauce, since they need so many ways to gank clueless n00bs...

Sphit Ker	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:30:00 - [41] I am an avid supporter of WTZ. Travelling with TW15 was such a mind-bogging burden. Unfortunately, WTZ damaged EVE a little. WT15 was a necessary evil, I guess. IÆll accept the return of WT15 if the warp drive can be made to sling us out of warp, much the same way stations throw us away when undocking. Travel burden still minimal. PVP opportunities are back to interesting levels. I donÆt want WT15 back at all in any way, shape or form. If anything, IÆd stuff a jump drives on all ships and be done with stargates... I just wonÆt cry if the sling out mechanic happens, IÆll ôget itö. The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Fille Balle I mean, who other than ~~n00bs~~ morons use AP? And isn't it easy enough to gank ~~n00bs~~ in this game? It has nothing to do with n00bishness since even they know better – it has to be with being stupid. And no, stupidity should not be rewarded, so anything that makes it easier to punish stupidity is a good thing. Quote: But maybe eve players are made of failsauce If there's such a need for auto-wtz, then yes, since it quite heavily implies a case of mass-stupidity. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:42:00 - [43] Let's remove HICs also and give WCS infinite strength and bubble immunity. Why shouldn't you be able to AFK anywhere you want?!?! "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Grim Vandal Burn Proof	Posted - 2010.04.21 12:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: David Grogan Originally by: Taedrin To be honest, I think that CCP should go back to warp to 15-km and prevent people from (ab)using the bookmark/warping mechanisms to create instas. I want the old days of solo pirate gate camps back. wont happen ever again ye all compalin of grid load lag when jumping into a system.......... if u have lots of bookmarks its alot worse... dont believe me? try this setup a trial ac and go out to 0.0 and jump your noob ship about and time each jump sequence....... then using your main with bookmarks fly the same ship along the same route as your trial ac ran -- the load sequence actually takes longer.... not much longer but a bit.... now try move 500 ships all with at least some bookmarks at the same time along the same route.... then u see severe lag during the jump sequence see why ccp made it possible to warp to zero now? less bms less lag In addition to what Taedrin said above, (and he's totally correct by the way) I have over twice as many BMs as I ever had before WTZ because I need perch spots and tactical BMs to navigate all the bubble possibilities due to WTZ. Fail. OMG guys dont tell me that after 5 years you all regret the STUPID WTZ changes. It was and is the one thing that changed gamemechanics and metagaming so much as that I only have an account left (dont play) to wait for ccp to remove wtz and **ty instas. I mean PI walking in stations ... all nice and dandy but the WTZ changes are what REALLY changed this game profoundly years ago. Same applies for insta docking ** and general docking gheyness. CCP dont have the BALLS anymore to do this tho. Greetings Grim
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Tippia It has nothing to do with n00bishness since even they know better û most notice the difference in manual and auto-pilot flying on their first outing, ask about it, and then learn what to do and when. So no, it's not too easy since it has to be with the victim being stupid, and anything that makes it easier to punish stupidity is a good thing. Yeah, my beef with AP not warping to 0 has absolutely nothing to do with suicide ganks FYI. My problem is that in order to travel faster I need to babysit my ship, which is booring as hell when you need to do 10+ jumps in a battleship. And no, I don't consider that "actively" playing. Originally by: Tippia If there's such a need for auto-wtz, then yes, since it quite heavily implies a case of mass-stupidity. More like people have better things to do than babysit their ships all the time. Like make a cup of tea or something. But if you think it's so hard to travel manually, then no wonder you think it's impossible to catch someone using WTZ without a bubble...
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:00:00 - [46] Originally by: Fille Balle My problem is that in order to travel faster I need to babysit my ship, which is booring as hell when you need to do 10+ jumps in a battleship. That's the reward you get. Quote: But if you think it's so hard to travel manually No, I don't – that's why I don't see the need for auto-wtz: because manual travel is dead simple. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
N0N	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:01:00 - [47] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: David Grogan Originally by: Taedrin To be honest, I think that CCP should go back to warp to 15-km and prevent people from (ab)using the bookmark/warping mechanisms to create instas. I want the old days of solo pirate gate camps back. wont happen ever again ye all compalin of grid load lag when jumping into a system.......... if u have lots of bookmarks its alot worse... dont believe me? try this setup a trial ac and go out to 0.0 and jump your noob ship about and time each jump sequence....... then using your main with bookmarks fly the same ship along the same route as your trial ac ran -- the load sequence actually takes longer.... not much longer but a bit.... now try move 500 ships all with at least some bookmarks at the same time along the same route.... then u see severe lag during the jump sequence see why ccp made it possible to warp to zero now? less bms less lag In addition to what Taedrin said above, (and he's totally correct by the way) I have over twice as many BMs as I ever had before WTZ because I need perch spots and tactical BMs to navigate all the bubble possibilities due to WTZ. Fail. You said it yourself, you have more BM's because of bubbles, not wtz.
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:23:00 - [48] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr So if we had auto-WTZ you ALL would be against it? I would. In my opinion, the last thing this game needs is more easy-modo. I honestly wouldn't mind if warping was changed so that arriving on a grid within 15km of a celestial was completely impossible. - Paknac Queltel
Spurty Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Since auto-warp-to-zero is viewed as such a cheat that CCP I stopped reading here. Your tinfoil hat is on too tight sexy lips Originally by: Hurley I WAS NOT QUITTING SoT AND WAS NOT THINKING ABOUT JOINING IT. PL/SoT MADE A MISTAKE AND ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT OR FIX IT.
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2010.04.22 23:03:00 - [50] Auto WTZ is definitely a gimme to the guys in the game who play 'the bad guys'. Maybe you guys don't get it or whatever, but EVE is a PvP game with a working supply and demand economy, in this sort of game ship losses are important to keep the economy rolling. WT15 is CCP's way of getting lazy people to pad the ship loss stats, and it is also a source of player interaction, which is another thing that CCP likes in their game (please see 'ninja' salvaging for another example of CCP's idea of 'player interaction'). It is this sort of thing that makes this game what it is, and if changed would change the game for the worse (which of course is my opinion, but it happens to be shared with quite a large number of other long-time subscribers). -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...

Doctor Steinsbrow Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.22 23:22:00 - [51] I hope this is a troll really. \|\<o>/\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \\|CCP\|/ -\|\|\|\|\|\|\|- -\|\|\|\|\|\|\|- ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY ~~WALK~~ WARP INTO ~~MORDOR~~ J7HZ-F!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.23 01:04:00 - [52] Originally by: N0N Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: David Grogan Originally by: Taedrin To be honest, I think that CCP should go back to warp to 15-km and prevent people from (ab)using the bookmark/warping mechanisms to create instas. I want the old days of solo pirate gate camps back. wont happen ever again ye all compalin of grid load lag when jumping into a system.......... if u have lots of bookmarks its alot worse... dont believe me? try this setup a trial ac and go out to 0.0 and jump your noob ship about and time each jump sequence....... then using your main with bookmarks fly the same ship along the same route as your trial ac ran -- the load sequence actually takes longer.... not much longer but a bit.... now try move 500 ships all with at least some bookmarks at the same time along the same route.... then u see severe lag during the jump sequence see why ccp made it possible to warp to zero now? less bms less lag In addition to what Taedrin said above, (and he's totally correct by the way) I have over twice as many BMs as I ever had before WTZ because I need perch spots and tactical BMs to navigate all the bubble possibilities due to WTZ. Fail. You said it yourself, you have more BM's because of bubbles, not wtz. I'll re-iterate for the mentally ****ed: I still have just as many, of not more, bookmarks than I ever did before WTZ. What it was meant to do: reduce the BM load on the servers, has failed. If it can't do that, there's no point in keeping it in the game. The answer here: Remove WTZ, do not allow any BM to be placed inside 115km of a station or stargate, do not allow any can to be anchored within the same range of a station/stargate. Problem solved. - Originally by:** Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Bellum Eternus The answer here: Remove WTZ, do not allow any BM to be placed inside 115km of a station or stargate, do not allow any can to be anchored within the same range of a station/stargate. Problem solved. Dont allow any gate-camps (loitering ships) within the same range and you got yourself a deal. ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Bellum Eternus The answer here: Remove WTZ, do not allow any BM to be placed inside 115km of a station or stargate, do not allow any can to be anchored within the same range of a station/stargate. Problem solved. Dont allow any gate-camps (loitering ships) within the same range and you got yourself a deal. Why? ~_~
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.04.23 04:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: Bellum Eternus The answer here: Remove WTZ, do not allow any BM to be placed inside 115km of a station or stargate, do not allow any can to be anchored within the same range of a station/stargate. Problem solved. Dont allow any gate-camps (loitering ships) within the same range and you got yourself a deal. Why? For the same reason I cant auto-WTZ. It's called "balance." ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:23:00 - [56] We still have that amazing world before WTZ. It's called the other side of the gate. _
FlameGlow Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:43:00 - [57] just put a weight on your mwd button - there, faster autopilot travel at cost of capacitor freighters are shafted, but if you're autopiloting one you got lots of time planned for afk
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.04.23 08:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Tippia That's the reward you get. Reward for something that's dead simple. And you think that's a good thing? Maybe we should make mining easier... Originally by: Tippia No, I don't û that's why I don't see the need for auto-wtz: because manual travel is dead simple. So then there is no problem with adding AP WTZ. Good, I'm glad we agree.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 08:53:00 - [59] Edited by: Tippia on 23/04/2010 08:54:35 Originally by: Fille Balle Reward for something that's dead simple. …over something that's so dead simple that it went extinct out of pure simplicity in the early triassic era? Sure. But no: reward for being at your keyboard, regardless of how simple it is. If you want safe, play it safe. AFK should come at a cost, and reduced safety is a good way to pay. Quote: So then there is no problem with adding AP WTZ. Sure there is: it's unnecessary, it promotes AFK:ness, and I have yet to hear a good suggestion for what bonus you'd get for flying manually (and no, a tiny bit of extra cap is not enough). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2010.04.23 09:32:00 - [60] Originally by: Tippia àover something that's so dead simple that it went extinct out of pure simplicity in the early triassic era? Sure. But no: reward for being at your keyboard, regardless of how simple it is. If you want safe, play it safe. AFK should come at a cost, and reduced safety is a good way to pay. Reduced safety from what exactly? Idiots that don't know how to tackle on the exit? Originally by: Tippia Sure there is: it's unnecessary, it promotes AFK:ness, and I have yet to hear a good suggestion for what bonus you'd get for flying manually (and no, a tiny bit of extra cap is not enough). Well, I already stated why there is a need. And it's not because I feel it's hard to fly manually, it's because it's booring. It's like mining.Click, wait, click, wait, click, wait... And why is AFK'ness a problem? Are you against AFK cloaking? And if not, why is that any different? Flying manually still has the upper hand as you can activate hardeners and/or shield boosters/armour reppers etc. If you're not at your keyboard you can't do that. So you're still rewarded for being at your keyboard.



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