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Mahatma Wassah
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Posted - 2010.04.24 10:49:00 -
[1]
The market graphs is vital for anyone doing some trading. Yet its readability is often impaired by players making a fake transaction.
The trick is to place a sell order for une unit of Isogen at 70,000 isks when it is only woth 50-60 isk. The same player then buys this unit hiself (or through an alt). He is both seller and buyer, but records a transation at 70,000 isks.
The market graph motor does not exclude that kind of operations when defining its scale. There can be millions of units of isogen traded at arround 55 isks, but the market graph motor will frame its display according to the highest trade, i.e. the one single 70,000 isk trade. It is then impossible to read any meaningfull information about price evolution because of the unappropriatedness of the scale used: trying to see prices in the 50 - 60 isks on a graph scaled at 70,000 isk is like trying to find your street on the world map.
Perhap solutions about that could be :
- to elude up to 1% of trades that is above 1000% of the averag price when defining the price scale of the graph(perhaps a clickable buble displaying the price in digits would maintain the availability of this information)
- to use a logarythmic scale above 500 % of average price
- to allow players to switch / combine these options themeselves through some right clics...
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Cista2
Stormhawk Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.04.24 11:05:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mahatma Wassah
Perhap solutions about that could be :
- to elude up to 1% of trades that is above 1000% of the averag price when defining the price scale of the graph
CCP excludes the extreme sales already. The threshold is secret but it has been said to be 2.5 % of sales.
However, if manipulators are able to recycle units over and over, there is no precaution or filter that can give you a "correct" price. The manipulated trades are after all - trades.
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Join "Signatures" channel - the chatroom for traders |
Companion Qube
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Posted - 2010.04.24 11:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Mahatma Wassah
Perhap solutions about that could be :
- to elude up to 1% of trades that is above 1000% of the averag price when defining the price scale of the graph
CCP excludes the extreme sales already. The threshold is secret but it has been said to be 2.5 % of sales.
However, if manipulators are able to recycle units over and over, there is no precaution or filter that can give you a "correct" price. The manipulated trades are after all - trades.
The market history uses basic sigma based filtering, if trades fall outside n sigma from the daily mean they're pruned.
Yes, you can abuse this to hide things. Yes, that leaves tell-tale tracks in the volume history.
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.04.24 11:51:00 -
[4]
Just turn of highs and lows and the channel. That stuff is useless anyways.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.25 05:21:00 -
[5]
True there is a workaround.. That should not change our oppinion and wishes for better solutions.
The fact that someone is blatantly abusing the limitations of the market historics and ingame features related to it, is kind of frustrating at best.
I personally would like to PLEA ccp for some long awaited upgrades to market interested players.
At fanfest I talked to our good doctor, and he gave the impression that he agree that better tools would benefit everyone, even with small tweaks.
My personal wish is that we will eventually have market features close to RL. Something like this: http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/stock/overview.aspx?id=458633 would be really nice.
This might be possible if ccp shifted the historic from the live data/market. Thus the historic data could run in an ingame browser capable enviroment, and we could maybe also get options like download historical data. If the ingame client price development menu was a seemless version of the ingame browser a lot of new features to such could easily be developed in small stages. Access to this enviroment could then both be from ingame client and future spacebook interface, thus adding a lot of new depth and gameplay.
Who knows? With something like this we might be a few steps closer to a player governed contracts based stock market. The first steps would most likely be the mineral basket based indeces.
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge
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Duggang
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Posted - 2010.04.25 08:58:00 -
[6]
Just right click the graph, disable minimum/maximum, disable donchian channel and you're set.
You see the 5 and 20 day average and the median, that's all i need and the manipulators with their 1 unit of isogen don't have any effect on that.
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Mahatma Wassah
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Posted - 2010.04.25 09:14:00 -
[7]
Thanks all of you for your input and suggestions.
The trick of cutting high and low AND median does not do it, for two reasons:
1) it is not efficient in some situations (ex: hoarder, in The Forge)
2) some players (such as I) use the min / max as well as median. (You bloody holorells haulers ! ); perhaps the aim of this exploit (if I can cal it so) is precisely to hide this information
Also, I percieve the gain that would be derived from a transfer to the IGB, as I rack my patience on Xcell files for a while now.
But such a long distance aim should not eclipse the little accessible improvement that would come with a modifiable scale on the graphs.
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Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
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Posted - 2010.04.25 14:34:00 -
[8]
In general I agree; I don't know why there is no option to simply allow manual specification of the y axes for both price and volume.
This should take maybe a day's worth of coding and testing to modify the client to have a dialog box to accept new display ranges and use those instead of the ranges sent by the server.
Sometimes I think that the UI is purposely convoluted.
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2010.04.25 15:14:00 -
[9]
I recommend yelling at the chart.
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Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.04.25 18:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Power Sauce
I recommend yelling at the chart.
It never seems to have the desired effect but I apply this method regularly,
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Martosh Toma
Gallente
Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2010.04.25 22:06:00 -
[11]
thx, learn something new every day. Switching those two optons off shows me what I wanted to see, with details.
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Companion Qube
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Posted - 2010.04.25 23:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Power Sauce
I recommend yelling at the chart.
You might try verbal and psychological abuse as well.
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Mahatma Wassah
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Posted - 2010.04.30 08:27:00 -
[13]
I've filled a petition on this topic today, as there seems to be a consensus.
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2010.04.30 16:18:00 -
[14]
Manual modification of the chart would be wonderful. I stopped using it myself after my first month of trading and just use the table (which has much more useful information IMHO) but in some cases the chart has it's uses as well.
That said there arE sooooo many other things I would rather see adresses first (market/wallet UI lag..:.)
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Maglatis
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Posted - 2010.04.30 22:43:00 -
[15]
I dont understand why people need to look at the min/max? I use the graph for a few things but for the most part i only care about the table info. Im consistently making 15-25% profit each week.
"I am going to call my kids Ctrl, Alt and Delete. Then if they muck up I will just hit them all at once."-Me
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.01 08:24:00 -
[16]
There is no reason for this to occur through normal trading therefore I think it is either :-
1) ISK laundering from a stolen account.
2) An attempt to hide an RMT transaction.
3) Deliberate attempt to sabotage the graph.
All three explanations should be petitioned and further investigation by GMs.
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