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Rifter vs Taranis?

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Tudway	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:47:00 - [1] So today I took a Rifter out into 0.0 space, in order to try and learn some PvP skills. I was attacked by a Taranis, and was shocked at how quickly I had been caught and how quickly my shields had evaporated (this being my first PvP encounter). As soon as I realised what was going on I activated my modules and set my orit at 2500M. The fight predictably ended with me going down in a ball of flames, although I was surprised by how much damage I'd managed to inflict on the Taranis (about 30% into structure). So, I wanted to know if there are any tactics I could use next time I find myself in this situation, facing a Taranis in my Rifter, that could give me a better chance of emerging the victor. Thanks in advance
Ensa Rai	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:59:00 - [2] Don't let a Taranis get close to you. His optimal range will be less than 2km so try your best to keep outside that. If he is dual prop fit (MWD and AB) then this will be impossible. Remember that a Taranis (generally) structure tanks so you will go right through his shields and armor. Your best chance is to hope that you don't run into a dual prop Taranis and fit a T2 warp scram and T2 Light Autocannons. Kite him at 7km and watch him nash his teeth while his guns miss completely but yours hit every time. Even in this situation though he could easily run away but that's ok because the Taranis is simply better than the Rifter meaning he will either win or run away. Depending of course on the fact that the pilot is not completely incompetent.
Tudway	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:05:00 - [3] Ah okay. I just hit orbit at 2500M as I had RF EMP loaded in my guns and i know it's more of a short range ammo. Next time I will try orbiting at 7Km with barrage, see how that goes.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.28 21:56:00 - [4] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/04/2010 21:57:34 Well... next time react faster, overload guns till breaking point and it'll go pop. Barrage is a gamble depending on your fit and his fit (whether he is dual-prop or no, etc, stuffs). RF Fusion S is very likely to be the best ammo to fire at one. Then again, I haven't flown a Rifter in 11ty billion years. Way back then I was using Hail S for killing blaster-taranises (but we had 90% webs and none of the post-dominion RF Fusion awesomeness) and it worked very very well. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ralnik Mutineers	Posted - 2010.04.28 22:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Ralnik on 28/04/2010 22:23:11 Taranis is just a better ship and will typically have the ability to either kill you or GTFO. If you use a neut you can likely kill the dumb ones, as they wont know what to do once their cap is gone. The problem is it can be difficult to come up with a working Rifter fit that uses a neut well. It typically require a shield fit and they don't have the same tank as a armor rep fit.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.29 00:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Ralnik The problem is it can be difficult to come up with a working Rifter fit that uses a neut well. It typically require a shield fit and while they have the same (or better) tank as an armor rep fit they lack a web. fyp. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
lookatzebirdie	Posted - 2010.04.29 00:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Ensa Rai If he is dual prop fit (MWD and AB) then this will be impossible. Er .. *******s. If he is dual prop fit then this will be EASIER scram + web + AB means he is going 60% (ish) slower than AB speed, he don't have a web so you are going FULL AB SPEED. Dual prop Ranises are quite easy to kill in a web/scram rifter, even easier with a neut. No need for barrage, if you sit that far out you'll just lose scram and he'll run, orbit just inside NEUT range. Ranis with MWD is POSSIBLE but dicey, AB Ranis means you most likely dead. Fortunately almost nobody flies them like that anti macroer anti exploiter 100% PRO RUSSIAN :)
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.04.29 01:03:00 - [8] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 29/04/2010 01:03:38 Use afterburner, web and scram. That way you can dictate range unless he has the same equipment, which ceptors rarely do. Try 400mm plate setup, gets a decent buffer. Neut is also an option, but you rarely cap him out before the fight is over anyway. Tackling it wont be your problem, he'll perceive you as target and come for you.
the nextship	Posted - 2010.04.29 03:02:00 - [9] Y R U ATTCKING RANIS IN RIFTER U NOOB. U R TOAST
Annie Anomie Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:02:00 - [10] Edited by: Annie Anomie on 29/04/2010 21:02:38 Rails tbh. Oh, you were in the rifter. Kite with barrage.

Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:35:00 - [11] Quote: The fight predictably ended with me going down in a ball of flames, although I was surprised by how much damage I'd managed to inflict on the Taranis (about 30% into structure). Well, ranis' are typically considered as "hull" tanked because the only thing resembling a tank fitted to them is a DCU. So it's quite common for them to end fights in structure. If you are fighting a competent ranis pilot you are going to lose though. They have much much better DPS and similar EHP they are also better at dictacting range as well.
Ralnik Mutineers	Posted - 2010.04.30 02:04:00 - [12] Edited by: Ralnik on 30/04/2010 02:06:24 Originally by: Marko Riva Originally by: Ralnik The problem is it can be difficult to come up with a working Rifter fit that uses a neut well. It typically require a shield fit and while they have the same (or better) tank as an armor rep fit they lack a web. fyp. No need to fix it.. Shield tank Rifter can't out tank a SAR/Plate fit hence the reason it isn't as much tank. Sure some shield fits can end up with more buffer, but it's passive with no regen bonus meaning it will fail before the SAR/Plate fit will. The shield fit has speed to get away, but it doesn't have more tank.
Noob Shadow	Posted - 2010.04.30 02:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Tudway So, I wanted to know if there are any tactics I could use next time I find myself in this situation, facing a Taranis in my Rifter, that could give me a better chance of emerging the victor. I have a super top secret fit you might like, send me a mail in game and I'll share it with you.
Rockstara Perkone	Posted - 2010.04.30 18:03:00 - [14] rifter with warp scram and tracking disruptor with tracking speed script. AB fit makes this better, but mwd has its own pros probably kill ranis' drones first. try to keep your transverse velocity up and stay relatively close, lazy way to do this would be to set orbit at 500 or 1k m.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.30 21:02:00 - [15] As I said, I don't know much about the modern situation vis a vis frigate combat, but back in ancient times we had to use Hail because faction ammo sucked and we had 90% webs and stuff, a 200mm RT/SAR II/DC AB Rifter had very solid chances vs a Taranis ( 1km fighting with overloaded guns and rep). I don't see why the fight should be unwinnable these days with boosted minmatar faction ammo and stuff - the biggest risk imo is the possibility of it being a rail taranis in which case you're quite screwed. Are there any competent Rifter pilots who can comment on the situation now? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Athena Silk void. Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.05.01 02:35:00 - [16] Dual-prop 'ranis is a fairly easy fight for an AB/Web/Scram Rifter. You're faster than it by about 40%, so kite outside of blaster range (orbit around 6,000m, give or take) and it'll be doing fairly minimal DPS (Neutrons with Null get about 6km Optimal+falloff), and Barrage should do enough DPS to take him down. I wouldn't even bother shooting his drones, the 30-odd DPS they provide isn't worth the effort. Takes a little bit of manual piloting to make sure he doesn't try and overload out of your scram range. [Rifter, Cheap Pew] Small Armor Repairer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I [empty rig slot] Alternatively, drop the SAR and 200mm plate for an MAPC and 400mm plate.
Morel Nova Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.05.02 17:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Cpt Branko As I said, I don't know much about the modern situation vis a vis frigate combat, but back in ancient times we had to use Hail because faction ammo sucked and we had 90% webs and stuff, a 200mm RT/SAR II/DC AB Rifter had very solid chances vs a Taranis ( 1km fighting with overloaded guns and rep). I don't see why the fight should be unwinnable these days with boosted minmatar faction ammo and stuff - the biggest risk imo is the possibility of it being a rail taranis in which case you're quite screwed. Are there any competent Rifter pilots who can comment on the situation now? ab/web/scram rifter will easily beat a dualprop ranis. it will lose to ab ranis (but those arent very common at all). you need to keep decent range to do this. good taranis pilots will load null before engaging a rifter they know to have AB which will make it a lot harder for the rifter, and down to player skills/small screwups etc. you will also beat rail taranis if you know it is a rail fit in advance (look at guns) and get under his tracking. mwd rifter can still beat taranis, but only really if you are a better pilot or get some luck (a lot of taranis pilots are crap so always go for it). 1. rifter has v. good tracking, use this to your advantage against slow tracking targets. get in close, overheat ab if you got it and you will take a lot less damage (I killed a daredevil that had null loaded doing this in my rifter. this can also work against wolves/jaguars etc if they use highest tier guns and pilot badly) 2. rifter has good speed + ac falloff. against a ranis you want to keep good range (like 5km at least, 6-7 is more comfortable against a good opponent but you risk losing him if he wiggles other way) 3. dont forget to overheat relevant stuff, including ab. guns should always be overheated in frig fights. 4. initial positioning is very important. try to get into a high orbit when both your scramblers hit because range is your friend and not his. use overheated speed stuff to make this happen in the beginning where it matters most. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
Kajan Tormen Minmatar Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2010.05.04 16:21:00 - [18] My experience with rifter versus ranis (I flew rifters exclusively for about 9 months or so): if you have an armor tank, AB, scram, web: kite the ranis with barrage. if you a) let the ranis get too close at the start of the fight, or b) face a AB + web ranis, you are toast. if you have a shield buffer, webless but neuting rifter: use RF fusion, set a VERY tight orbit and prey that your overloaded neut caps him out when you hit structure (usually worked for me). If you have a shield buffer without a neut, there is just no way to win.
Cash Collection	Posted - 2010.05.04 17:18:00 - [19] [Rifter, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Overdrive Injector System II Damage Control II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Warp Scrambler II 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Keep your ab and guns overloaded and set a 5k keep at range. You should drop most ceptors but get ****d by drams.
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.05.04 17:38:00 - [20] The best bet is to make him burn for you, and manually fly your ship away from his at a set slower speed, but still reasonably fast, like maybe 600-700m/s slower than him, and spam overloaded scram/web on him so the engagement starts at around the 6-7km area. Most Taranis pilots are willing to mwd for a rifter, and even in a dual prop fit, presumably you're fitting a web, he is only something like <200m/s faster than you while overheating his afterburner. Which means if you catch him in the 5-6km area, he will still take about 10-12 seconds to get into antimatter range, and by then hopefully you'll have had enough of an advantage to be able to win the following brawl. If he has Null loaded then don't hesistate to get in there and orbit tight. When flying a frigate, always, always, always overload your guns the whole fight. You can overload your guns for a good 50 seconds before you have to shut it off, and almost every frigate fight is over by that point. Don't be conservative with overheating. You can kill most Ranis pilots that way, and I find that the Ranis will go for a MWD rifter almost everytime, the good ones are very paranoid when it comes to AB setups. And likely won't engage you at all, or will be much more careful. As Captain Branko says, Go with RF fusion, you outrange his null with fusion, and since he is faster than you it doesn't take long (maybe 6 seconds) for him to cross the line between barrage being a better choice than RF fusion. ---

AcMav Metanoia. Consortium.	Posted - 2010.05.06 11:51:00 - [21] The only problem you're risking by doing this is everyones assuming you're going against a Blaster Ranis. Yes there's mostly blaster taranis' out there but you do have a chance of running into one fitting Rails in which he'll dictate range the entire fight. In this case your best bet is to just run when he's orbiting away from you, overload your afterburner and just run to break Orbit. It may also help you to read the Interceptor Flying Guidewhich is semi-outdated but contains some useful information on helpful maneuvers against and with interceptors.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe	Posted - 2010.05.06 14:33:00 - [22] Originally by: AcMav The only problem you're risking by doing this is everyones assuming you're going against a Blaster Ranis. Yes there's mostly blaster taranis' out there but you do have a chance of running into one fitting Rails in which he'll dictate range the entire fight. In this case your best bet is to just run when he's orbiting away from you, overload your afterburner and just run to break Orbit. It may also help you to read the Interceptor Flying Guidewhich is semi-outdated but contains some useful information on helpful maneuvers against and with interceptors. Interesting, but @op, remember that warp scrambler now shuts down mwd. If you don't have an AB fitted as well, these tactics will fail. Still, important point is that manual piloting van save your ass. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
lookatzebirdie	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:05:00 - [23] Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 06/05/2010 15:07:25 Originally by: Cpt Branko As I said, I don't know much about the modern situation vis a vis frigate combat, but back in ancient times we had to use Hail because faction ammo sucked and we had 90% webs and stuff, a 200mm RT/SAR II/DC AB Rifter had very solid chances vs a Taranis ( 1km fighting with overloaded guns and rep). I don't see why the fight should be unwinnable these days with boosted minmatar faction ammo and stuff - the biggest risk imo is the possibility of it being a rail taranis in which case you're quite screwed. Are there any competent Rifter pilots who can comment on the situation now? this was with a TD setup with an ODII and a low friction nozzle rig to keep agile. Rifter vs dual prop Ranis without the web the ranis is on top of you but with the tracking speed script it actually works against him, just watch ur speed/transversal. Should work against a MWD/Web ranis too. If you have better speed than the Ranis without webs (mebbe a noob ranis pilot ?) the optimal range script and a larger orbit would prolly work well. Also as, said before, an AB/web rifter should be able to keep range on all types of closee range Ranis but an AB/web Ranis. Use fusion rather than barrage as a) it tracks better and b) should still out damage barrage at the orbit you'll want to use (around 5k) so as not to lose the target at the edge of scram range. EDIT, don't forget that the Ranis structure tanks, so if you don't still have a healthy amount of armor HP left when you hit his structure, it may be time to GTFO. Do not go charging in as soon as you see structure bleed, you'll die. _____________________________________________ fsuicgks (this is not gibberish, it is deeply profound
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.07 16:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 30/04/2010 02:06:24 Originally by: Marko Riva Originally by: Ralnik The problem is it can be difficult to come up with a working Rifter fit that uses a neut well. It typically require a shield fit and while they have the same (or better) tank as an armor rep fit they lack a web. fyp. No need to fix it.. Shield tank Rifter can't out tank a SAR/Plate fit hence the reason it isn't as much tank. Sure some shield fits can end up with more buffer, but it's passive with no regen bonus meaning it will fail before the SAR/Plate fit will. The shield fit has speed to get away, but it doesn't have more tank. Shield tank Rifter has more buffer, more speed, more agility, and more dps. Shield tank Rifter doesn't have to worry about capping out as much, either. The repper on the dmc/200mm/sar fit is great until you're out of cap. By the way, you can dual prop Rifters, too. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
lookatzebirdie	Posted - 2010.05.07 17:49:00 - [25] Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 07/05/2010 17:50:53 Originally by: rodensteiner Originally by: Ralnik No need to fix it.. Shield tank Rifter can't out tank a SAR/Plate fit hence the reason it isn't as much tank. Sure some shield fits can end up with more buffer, but it's passive with no regen bonus meaning it will fail before the SAR/Plate fit will. The shield fit has speed to get away, but it doesn't have more tank. Shield tank Rifter has more buffer, more speed, more agility, and more dps. Shield tank Rifter doesn't have to worry about capping out as much, either. The repper on the dmc/200mm/sar fit is great until you're out of cap. By the way, you can dual prop Rifters, too. Shield tank rifter can't stop anyone with a web running away, Ive tried them and they are great vs 2 mid slot frigs but fail to perform against all but the stupidest pilots in frigs with webs. An armor tanked rifter has room for a web of course and so will also dominate any 2 midslot frig (range control and GTFOability) and will be able to prevent most other frigs from escaping. It is overall a FAR superior solo fit as it can engage more targets and be able to FINISH THE JOB. I personally like TD rifters, they are suitable for where I fly, but they do suffer from the problem of escapees. However, if one can resist using the TD until both pilots enter a decent amount of armor, you leave the target without enough time to run and reduce their DPS enough to win (obviously quite subjective and situational). The thing with rifters is they are so versatile, ur enemies never know for sure what you will be packing and you never know what will happen when you take on another rifter pilot. But there is a reason that the 200plate/SAR rifter is so ubiquitous and it is that out of all th rifter fits it is the most adaptable, can take on the broadest selection of targets and is fun to fly. The shield rifter is basically a small gang setup or something to gank crappy pilots with, ofc if you've been flying in (ex)CVA space I'm not surprised you think it's so good with all the **** pilots that fly there _____________________________________________ fsuicgks (this is not gibberish, it is deeply profound
Captain Blart Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.05.11 21:43:00 - [26] Just download all look all the frigates video of this guy, he is very good and kill a lot of T2 frig with T1 ones. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1307118 Very enjoyable to watch
ImAPostingAlt Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Suitonia The best bet is to make him burn for you, and manually fly your ship away from his at a set slower speed, but still reasonably fast, like maybe 600-700m/s slower than him, and spam overloaded scram/web on him so the engagement starts at around the 6-7km area. Most Taranis pilots are willing to mwd for a rifter, and even in a dual prop fit, presumably you're fitting a web, he is only something like <200m/s faster than you while overheating his afterburner. Which means if you catch him in the 5-6km area, he will still take about 10-12 seconds to get into antimatter range, and by then hopefully you'll have had enough of an advantage to be able to win the following brawl. If he has Null loaded then don't hesistate to get in there and orbit tight. When flying a frigate, always, always, always overload your guns the whole fight. You can overload your guns for a good 50 seconds before you have to shut it off, and almost every frigate fight is over by that point. Don't be conservative with overheating. You can kill most Ranis pilots that way, and I find that the Ranis will go for a MWD rifter almost everytime, the good ones are very paranoid when it comes to AB setups. And likely won't engage you at all, or will be much more careful. As Captain Branko says, Go with RF fusion, you outrange his null with fusion, and since he is faster than you it doesn't take long (maybe 6 seconds) for him to cross the line between barrage being a better choice than RF fusion. A dual prop ranis will be 400m/s with overloaded AB than a MWD rifter with web. With that speed it'll take 3-4 seconds to get into reasonable damage range(within 3.5km). Most taranis pilots make the mistake of using approach, but Light Neutrons do best from 1800-1900m. Now a AB/scram/web Rifter can easily kill a dual prop 'ranis, but I almost flat out refuse to engage AB fit rifters. A rail ranis can kill a Rifter no matter how it's fit.
Sarah Norbulk Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.12 09:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Captain Blart Just download all look all the frigates video of this guy, he is very good and kill a lot of T2 frig with T1 ones. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1307118 Very enjoyable to watch Prometheus is one of the best frigate pilots I've come across. If only I were that good.
Tudway	Posted - 2010.05.13 02:19:00 - [29] Thanks for all the replies guys and good advice, i'm hoping next time i run into a taranis i'll remember some of this! :D
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.13 12:20:00 - [30] Originally by: lookatzebirdie ...stuff... You're right, there are a lot of crap pilots in the area. However, the reasons I like the MSE Rifter are because a)It's a fair amount quicker and more nimble, which is important due to the blobby nature of most of my opponents, as well as the constant bubble camps I need to avoid b)It lets me fit damage mods in the lows c)I have a larger buffer than the 200mm plate, and neuts aren't as big of a problem because I don't have a repper to worry about feeding cap to Of course, a web would be lovely to have. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP



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