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Kendo Nagis	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:12:00 - [1] I read the boards quite a lot, but can't recall anyone mentioning this before. The Freox, a Caldari BC with no missile bonus Why? Ok, it's got the shields and armor to withstand attack from most cruisers, like it's suposed to, but as a Caldari I mainly use missiles and guns as an alternative and backup. The thing is, why a gun bonus for a Caldari ship? I fly the Caracal as well, yet the Ferox would be dead if it went 1 on 1 against the caracal. Both have similar base speed, both can fit 5 launchers, yet the bonus' the Caracal gets means it can keep the distance between the two outside of the missile range of the Ferox and do more damage. I know the Ferox will take longer to kill, but in the right hands the Car will always win. Why
Kendo Nagis	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:12:00 - [2] I read the boards quite a lot, but can't recall anyone mentioning this before. The Freox, a Caldari BC with no missile bonus Why? Ok, it's got the shields and armor to withstand attack from most cruisers, like it's suposed to, but as a Caldari I mainly use missiles and guns as an alternative and backup. The thing is, why a gun bonus for a Caldari ship? I fly the Caracal as well, yet the Ferox would be dead if it went 1 on 1 against the caracal. Both have similar base speed, both can fit 5 launchers, yet the bonus' the Caracal gets means it can keep the distance between the two outside of the missile range of the Ferox and do more damage. I know the Ferox will take longer to kill, but in the right hands the Car will always win. Why
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:22:00 - [3] Well if you get your missile bonus I don't get my gun bonus. Thought it always sucked that Caldari only got bonuses for half their high slots but I've never bothered whining about it. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:22:00 - [4] Well if you get your missile bonus I don't get my gun bonus. Thought it always sucked that Caldari only got bonuses for half their high slots but I've never bothered whining about it. __________ Capacitor research
Iachrites Archveult	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:57:00 - [5] Ferox 250mm Railgun 1 Battlecruisers Lvl 3 Tungsten M Hyb Ammo Sharpshooter Lvl 3 24 x 1.3 x 1.4 x 1.15 = 50.2 km optimal You're complaining about a bonus that on even moderately well-trained skills and moderate range bonus ammo close to doubles the range of the weapon? Use iron and the range becomes 57.4. Train sharpshooter to 4 and BCs to 4 and use iron and the range is 64. We haven't even discussed the effect of a targetting computer (could push the range up above 70) using a named 250. Try this: Scout 250 1 Iron M ammo BCs lvl 4 Sharpshooter lvl 4 Tracking Computer 26.4 x 1.6 x 1.4 x 1.2 x 1.1 = 78 optimal... Yeah, a Cara will take the thing down with a well-seasoned Cara pilot at the helm - but it better be a well-seasoned Cara pilot and they better hope it isn't a tooled-up Ferox. I also think there are things the Ferox could do to speed up and close the gap. This is a very good bonus. Because for all the power of missiles, there are very few things that actually improve their range while hybrids (and turrets in general) get many range bonuses from many things and are, of course, near instantaneous weapons at range... Have fun out there. Iac
Iachrites Archveult	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:57:00 - [6] Ferox 250mm Railgun 1 Battlecruisers Lvl 3 Tungsten M Hyb Ammo Sharpshooter Lvl 3 24 x 1.3 x 1.4 x 1.15 = 50.2 km optimal You're complaining about a bonus that on even moderately well-trained skills and moderate range bonus ammo close to doubles the range of the weapon? Use iron and the range becomes 57.4. Train sharpshooter to 4 and BCs to 4 and use iron and the range is 64. We haven't even discussed the effect of a targetting computer (could push the range up above 70) using a named 250. Try this: Scout 250 1 Iron M ammo BCs lvl 4 Sharpshooter lvl 4 Tracking Computer 26.4 x 1.6 x 1.4 x 1.2 x 1.1 = 78 optimal... Yeah, a Cara will take the thing down with a well-seasoned Cara pilot at the helm - but it better be a well-seasoned Cara pilot and they better hope it isn't a tooled-up Ferox. I also think there are things the Ferox could do to speed up and close the gap. This is a very good bonus. Because for all the power of missiles, there are very few things that actually improve their range while hybrids (and turrets in general) get many range bonuses from many things and are, of course, near instantaneous weapons at range... Have fun out there. Iac
Kyroki Tirpellan	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:57:00 - [7] The Hybrid Optimal Range bonus is the "basic" bonus for caldari ships. Those ships that aren't designated for some other role (missile deployment, EW etc) have the optimal bonus. The shield res bonus is there to balance it vs. the other BCs - Amarr get armor res, caldari shield res, gallante armor rep, minmatar shield boost. Pretty even. I would agree though, switching the optimal bonus for something like missile velocity. A 5/5 slot setup on a Caldari ship makes launchers the obvious choice (you met a scorpion pilot who prefers turrets?), so why not give it a missile bonus? Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank!
Kyroki Tirpellan	Posted - 2004.12.03 17:57:00 - [8] The Hybrid Optimal Range bonus is the "basic" bonus for caldari ships. Those ships that aren't designated for some other role (missile deployment, EW etc) have the optimal bonus. The shield res bonus is there to balance it vs. the other BCs - Amarr get armor res, caldari shield res, gallante armor rep, minmatar shield boost. Pretty even. I would agree though, switching the optimal bonus for something like missile velocity. A 5/5 slot setup on a Caldari ship makes launchers the obvious choice (you met a scorpion pilot who prefers turrets?), so why not give it a missile bonus? Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank!
Veneth	Posted - 2004.12.03 19:09:00 - [9] I've thought about it a lot and came to the conclusion that they're trying to make the BC something more like the Moa. Not another Caldari ship that just uses missiles to spam enemy units. What's nice about the Ferox is that you still have the option of using missiles but is probably better suited to railgun support
Veneth	Posted - 2004.12.03 19:09:00 - [10] I've thought about it a lot and came to the conclusion that they're trying to make the BC something more like the Moa. Not another Caldari ship that just uses missiles to spam enemy units. What's nice about the Ferox is that you still have the option of using missiles but is probably better suited to railgun support
Morikai Acler	Posted - 2004.12.03 20:02:00 - [11] yeah, even when it had the missile bonus's I still used more rails or blasters on mine, than I did missiles. Missiles are just too damned slow, and easily avoidable for me.
Morikai Acler	Posted - 2004.12.03 20:02:00 - [12] yeah, even when it had the missile bonus's I still used more rails or blasters on mine, than I did missiles. Missiles are just too damned slow, and easily avoidable for me.
CDLPeacemaker	Posted - 2004.12.04 02:41:00 - [13] Lets say a ferox went toe to toe with a caracal. Because the caracal gets +5% bonus to damage by kenetic missles the ferox would be doing the same damage as the caracal because it gets a +5% to shields kenetic deflection per level. Also the caldari arnt JUST missle boats. They also have a good deal of gunships (MOA, Merlin, Scorp can be one) They all can use rails effectivly.
CDLPeacemaker	Posted - 2004.12.04 02:41:00 - [14] Lets say a ferox went toe to toe with a caracal. Because the caracal gets +5% bonus to damage by kenetic missles the ferox would be doing the same damage as the caracal because it gets a +5% to shields kenetic deflection per level. Also the caldari arnt JUST missle boats. They also have a good deal of gunships (MOA, Merlin, Scorp can be one) They all can use rails effectivly.
DarK	Posted - 2004.12.04 03:46:00 - [15] I think they didn't give it a missile bonus because they wanted the caracal to still have a role in combat, just like how they removed a med slot so the blackbird had its role. I don't mind the opt rang bonus I guess, but the Moa already has it, so I think they should give it another. Perhaps a rate of fire bonus on either the launchers or turrets. It would be interesting to have a medium/short range ship for a change, a ship that tanks etc(personally I don't care much for tanking bonusses if I'm going for ranged combat as I usually cram the meds full of tracking comps) Also, a caracal would be able to operate outside of the Ferox' max range(if using missiles) and the damage it would receive from the turrets wouldn't be too high.
DarK	Posted - 2004.12.04 03:46:00 - [16] I think they didn't give it a missile bonus because they wanted the caracal to still have a role in combat, just like how they removed a med slot so the blackbird had its role. I don't mind the opt rang bonus I guess, but the Moa already has it, so I think they should give it another. Perhaps a rate of fire bonus on either the launchers or turrets. It would be interesting to have a medium/short range ship for a change, a ship that tanks etc(personally I don't care much for tanking bonusses if I'm going for ranged combat as I usually cram the meds full of tracking comps) Also, a caracal would be able to operate outside of the Ferox' max range(if using missiles) and the damage it would receive from the turrets wouldn't be too high.
Clythe	Posted - 2004.12.04 04:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Clythe on 04/12/2004 04:28:55 A Ferox can target a ship over 60-70km and hit with 250mm rails using iron without any aids. I am one of the few who actually misses the original hybrid turret range bonus on the Scorpion. I can see so many reasons now for sniping in missions, thanks to deadspace mission designs that drop you at least 100km from the spawns. I am attracted to getting a Harpy for use as a frig sniper. And I really love the Moa for the range of its rails. I also have a Caracal and I don't believe the Caracal is any better. In fact, its tabled now in the hanger and I've moved all the equipment to the Ferox. The Caracal is a nice ship until it starts getting shot at. Short of running away, it lacks the stamina to keep its shields up due to small cap and weak recharge. In comparison the Ferox got much stronger tanking qualities---it can fit a large shield booster and still use a 100mn AB (if you use five launchers that is). You also got a much bigger shield and a lot more cap to spare. The two 250mm rails will still add to the damage the five launchers will dish out. If a Ferox is expected to face a Caracal on PvP or Caracal based NPCs in PvE, mount a kinetic shield hardener.
Clythe	Posted - 2004.12.04 04:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Clythe on 04/12/2004 04:28:55 A Ferox can target a ship over 60-70km and hit with 250mm rails using iron without any aids. I am one of the few who actually misses the original hybrid turret range bonus on the Scorpion. I can see so many reasons now for sniping in missions, thanks to deadspace mission designs that drop you at least 100km from the spawns. I am attracted to getting a Harpy for use as a frig sniper. And I really love the Moa for the range of its rails. I also have a Caracal and I don't believe the Caracal is any better. In fact, its tabled now in the hanger and I've moved all the equipment to the Ferox. The Caracal is a nice ship until it starts getting shot at. Short of running away, it lacks the stamina to keep its shields up due to small cap and weak recharge. In comparison the Ferox got much stronger tanking qualities---it can fit a large shield booster and still use a 100mn AB (if you use five launchers that is). You also got a much bigger shield and a lot more cap to spare. The two 250mm rails will still add to the damage the five launchers will dish out. If a Ferox is expected to face a Caracal on PvP or Caracal based NPCs in PvE, mount a kinetic shield hardener.
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2004.12.04 05:03:00 - [19] Caldari ships are borked. Missles do less damage then turret ships, with missle ships you have to factor in Rof,flight time of said missle to target and players skill per missle type. missles are only good if your right on top of a target and even then they suck against frigs and intys less ur in a raven with crusie and have a minimum of Caldari bs 4. Caldari have been nerfed the hardest this year then any other race least the minmatar caan put up a decent defense, they whine that they can't hit anything with 1400s but i have a tempes and crapp skills but i still out damage my Raven and I have specialised Caldari. The only missle skills I DON'T have at 5 are torps and crusie they are at 4,all i have left to do is train bs 5. So I have almost max skills for all t1 caldari ships and missles and turret ships in conclusion PWN missle ships. If you don't believe me do the math you will swith to a Brutix with 250mm rails befor long. Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass.
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2004.12.04 05:03:00 - [20] Caldari ships are borked. Missles do less damage then turret ships, with missle ships you have to factor in Rof,flight time of said missle to target and players skill per missle type. missles are only good if your right on top of a target and even then they suck against frigs and intys less ur in a raven with crusie and have a minimum of Caldari bs 4. Caldari have been nerfed the hardest this year then any other race least the minmatar caan put up a decent defense, they whine that they can't hit anything with 1400s but i have a tempes and crapp skills but i still out damage my Raven and I have specialised Caldari. The only missle skills I DON'T have at 5 are torps and crusie they are at 4,all i have left to do is train bs 5. So I have almost max skills for all t1 caldari ships and missles and turret ships in conclusion PWN missle ships. If you don't believe me do the math you will swith to a Brutix with 250mm rails befor long. Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.12.04 05:49:00 - [21] Edited by: Slithereen on 04/12/2004 05:57:23 [That's my slave alt on the post above you] I don't buy that explanation. I have a Brutix with named 250mm rails, and I already have lost a Proph with heavy beams (same philosophy as the Brutix---a gun turret sniper). I have far more confidence of using my Ferox with five launchers against the hairier, interceptor filled missions because of the way missiles can clean out inty tacklers. This is not to mention that you can fit a large shield booster and an oversized AB on a Ferox if you decide to go all five launchers with 2 250mm rails with four PDUs on the bottom. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.12.04 05:49:00 - [22] Edited by: Slithereen on 04/12/2004 05:57:23 [That's my slave alt on the post above you] I don't buy that explanation. I have a Brutix with named 250mm rails, and I already have lost a Proph with heavy beams (same philosophy as the Brutix---a gun turret sniper). I have far more confidence of using my Ferox with five launchers against the hairier, interceptor filled missions because of the way missiles can clean out inty tacklers. This is not to mention that you can fit a large shield booster and an oversized AB on a Ferox if you decide to go all five launchers with 2 250mm rails with four PDUs on the bottom. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Pandora Panda	Posted - 2004.12.04 06:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Lucian Alucard Caldari ships are borked. Missles do less damage then turret ships You shouldnt post after dropping acid. -------------------------------------------- CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003
Pandora Panda	Posted - 2004.12.04 06:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Lucian Alucard Caldari ships are borked. Missles do less damage then turret ships You shouldnt post after dropping acid. -------------------------------------------- CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003
Ricdic	Posted - 2004.12.04 17:38:00 - [25] I gotta agree with the above poster. I dunno how you could say that caldari are bad ships. You will get flamed big-time. I guess you havent noticed the 500 other posts around, with all the other races complaining how caldari is unbalanced, and now the best race in the game (mainly talking about caldari battleships) . Think before you speak dude
Ricdic	Posted - 2004.12.04 17:38:00 - [26] I gotta agree with the above poster. I dunno how you could say that caldari are bad ships. You will get flamed big-time. I guess you havent noticed the 500 other posts around, with all the other races complaining how caldari is unbalanced, and now the best race in the game (mainly talking about caldari battleships) . Think before you speak dude
Leegion	Posted - 2004.12.04 18:34:00 - [27] Not all Caldari ships have missile bonuses. Take a look at the Moa. The Ferox is basically a beefed up version of the Moa with the same Bonuses. Yet it can also be a beefed up version of a Caracal, and even a Blackbird. So this ship is very versatile.
Leegion	Posted - 2004.12.04 18:34:00 - [28] Not all Caldari ships have missile bonuses. Take a look at the Moa. The Ferox is basically a beefed up version of the Moa with the same Bonuses. Yet it can also be a beefed up version of a Caracal, and even a Blackbird. So this ship is very versatile.
sc0rpi0n	Posted - 2004.12.04 19:03:00 - [29] I want dm bonus to all heavy missiles....
sc0rpi0n	Posted - 2004.12.04 19:03:00 - [30] I want dm bonus to all heavy missiles....

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