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Blockade runner vs. Covert Ops, or both?

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Lennvas	Posted - 2010.05.01 20:46:00 - [1] To train them seperately, the difference in the time it takes for me, is under a day. But they have not much synergies, timewise, for me, its nearly twice the time of either plans above. I dont know what I will use more often, as I dont (yet) scan much, the cargo is probably the only criterion for the decision. Thus, I tend towards the BR, but have you any input why I should train the cov op instead, or additionaly? As we talk about 27 to 51 days, thats not a easy "just do everything" for me.
Borgh Brainbasher Path of Now and Forever	Posted - 2010.05.01 21:04:00 - [2] what are the similarities: covert cloak no firepower what are the differences: Cargo bay allign time scanning bonus on covops so what do you want and what will you be using it for? Covops is pretty good at sneaking high value stuff in small quantities, blockade runner is (slightly) easier to catch but has a good cargo bay. So lets look at other stuff you get with the skill: Covops gives you bombers and slightly further on recons Blockade runner gives deep space transports and slightly further on freighters just pick the direction you want to go and go there. On another note: two months of training is nothing. --- Warning: You are on the pvp only server.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.01 23:54:00 - [3] For what it is worth, I have both but find I use the Blockade Runner whenever I'm not in a freighter or combat ship. I use Covert Ops mainly when I need to go deep into nulsec. Not because Covert Ops is better (my BR is actually faster to warp), but rather because if I get caught I lose a cheaper ship (about 1/4 the price). Other than that, Covert Ops is the king for scouting and scanning, which it was really meant for. I currently own 5 of them. Getting access to Stealth Bombers is a nice bonus, but they are of limited use for me, as they are not really solo ships. Recons are great too, but even worse than Covert Ops for moving cargo. At this level, one might as well as use a Strategic Cruiser.
Revii Lagoon	Posted - 2010.05.02 07:43:00 - [4] Both are great for 0.0, low, and high sec. If you need to transport a LOT of salvage from 0.0 to high sec to sell, a covert ops is ideal because it doesn't take a lot of space, and covert ops ships are hard to catch. A blockade runner is great for taking large quantities of ammo, ships, minerals, loot, around in 0.0, simply because they don't require a scout if you want to move anything around and most likely not get ganked. In high sec they both have their uses because they can easily avoid suicide ganks because of their cloaks, thus allowing for transport of high value goods with very little risk. From experience I can say that I have used my basic covert ops ship to transport more stuff in 0.0 than my T1 haulers simply because I usually don't need to move high volume stuff around that much.
Lennvas	Posted - 2010.05.02 08:08:00 - [5] Thank you for the input so far. I believe I will start with those skills both of them use, so I can ponder a little while longer.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 08:36:00 - [6] I am looking at them, too. My current findings are, and please correct me where I am wrong: - The Covert Ops transporter is good for getting through hostile territory. - The Blockade Runner is good for getting into hostile territory. The problem with the cloak is that while one can dock at a station it can become difficult to undock from it. Anyone on the outside getting a lock on you can stop you from cloaking and, with a warp disruptor, from going into warp. The Covert Ops transporter is best used when one can undock from a save station, but it still can go through hostile territory. The Blockade Runner is the ship for when one expects an assault and one "only" needs to consider bumpers and heavy interdictors from stopping the ship of going into warp. --
Lennvas	Posted - 2010.05.02 09:07:00 - [7] You sound as if the blockaderunner inside hostile territory would not be at risk when undocking. Why is that? Both can only cloak after undocking.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 09:55:00 - [8] Edited by: Whitehound on 02/05/2010 09:55:39 Originally by: Lennvas You sound as if the blockaderunner inside hostile territory would not be at risk when undocking. Why is that? Both can only cloak after undocking. No, it is at risk. However, one is hardly anywhere without risk in EVE, therefore did I not mention it. The Blockade Runner then has more hitpoints and his +2 in warp strength, which increases it is chances. --
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.02 09:55:00 - [9] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 02/05/2010 09:57:19 Originally by: Whitehound I am looking at them, too. My current findings are, and please correct me where I am wrong: - The Covert Ops transporter is good for getting through hostile territory. - The Blockade Runner is good for getting into hostile territory. The problem with the cloak is that while one can dock at a station it can become difficult to undock from it. Anyone on the outside getting a lock on you can stop you from cloaking and, with a warp disruptor, from going into warp. The Covert Ops transporter is best used when one can undock from a save station, but it still can go through hostile territory. The Blockade Runner is the ship for when one expects an assault and one "only" needs to consider bumpers and heavy interdictors from stopping the ship of going into warp. Erm... Both Covert Ops frigates and the Blockade Runner (BR) use a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II. I think you may be confused by Deep Space Transports (DST) which can't. The DST is sturdier, usually larger than an Industrial, and MUCH slower. They will never survive a bubble camp.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Whitehound on 02/05/2010 10:01:47 Originally by: Tau Cabalander Both Covert Ops frigates and the Blockade Runner (BR) use a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II. I think you may be confused by Deep Space Transports (DST) which can't. The DST is sturdier, usually larger, and MUCH slower. They will never survive a bubble camp. No, but maybe you are confused: it has two T2 transporters for each race. One is the Covert Ops transporter, which can fit a covert ops cloak, and the other is the Blockade Runner with +2 warp strength and more than twice as much hitpoints than the other. --

Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Whitehound No, but maybe you are confused: it has two T2 transporters for each race. One is the Covert Ops transporter, which can fit a covert ops cloak, and the other is the Blockade Runner with +2 warp strength and more than twice as much hitpoints than the other. Sorry, you are wrong.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Sorry, you are wrong. With what? --
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tau Cabalander Both Covert Ops frigates and the Blockade Runner (BR) use a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II. I think you may be confused by Deep Space Transports (DST) which can't. The DST is sturdier, usually larger, and MUCH slower. They will never survive a bubble camp. No, but maybe you are confused: it has two T2 transporters for each race. One is the Covert Ops transporter, which can fit a covert ops cloak, and the other is the Blockade Runner with +2 warp strength and more than twice as much hitpoints than the other. Covert Ops: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II * Anathema * Cheetah * Helios * Buzzard Blockade Runner Transports: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II * Prorator * Prowler * Viator * Crane Deep Space Transports: +2 warp stab * Impel * Mastodan * Occator * Bustard Check them out in EVElopedia.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Covert Ops: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II * Anathema * Cheetah * Helios * Buzzard You believe the OP is comparing haulers with frigates? I do not think so. I think he is comparing the two different T2 transporters. --
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tau Cabalander Covert Ops: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II * Anathema * Cheetah * Helios * Buzzard You believe the OP is comparing haulers with frigates? I do not think so. I think he is comparing the two different T2 transporters. Did you even read the thread title?
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Nika Dekaia Did you even read the thread title? Why would I not read it? it says "Blockade Runner vs. Covert Ops, or both?" He further writes that he does not scan much and emphasizes the cargo. So he must be comparing the two T2 transporters. Unless, of course, he is not aware of the Covert Ops transporter and really is comparing apples with oranges. All I am doing is to compare the two T2 transporters, and then get told that I would be confused and wrong. I do not think that I need to do any extra reading ... --
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.02 10:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tau Cabalander Covert Ops: Covert Ops Cloaking Device II * Anathema * Cheetah * Helios * Buzzard You believe the OP is comparing haulers with frigates? I do not think so. I think he is comparing the two different T2 transporters. Well the title is, "Blockade runner vs. Covert Ops, or both?", not "Blockade runner vs. Deep space, or both?" I'm not the only one that was confused by this; Borgh Brainbasher was also comparing the frigates and the hauler.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:01:00 - [18] I'll just chip in that Whitehound is the confused one in this thread. He's confusing Deep Space Transports with Blockade Runners and Blockade Runners with Cov Ops. Borgh, Tau, and Revii are entirely correct. Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:07:00 - [19] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 02/05/2010 11:10:10 Originally by: Whitehound No, but maybe you are confused: it has two T2 transporters for each race. One is the Covert Ops transporter, which can fit a covert ops cloak, and the other is the Blockade Runner with +2 warp strength and more than twice as much hitpoints than the other. "Covert Ops Transporter" is another name for a Blockade Runner. They DO NOT have a warp stab. Deep Space Transports have a +2 warp stab. They cannot fit a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II. You may be confused because one upon a time these ships were different. That was changed over a year or more ago.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Whitehound on 02/05/2010 11:16:06 Originally by: Tau Cabalander Well the title is, "Blockade runner vs. Covert Ops, or both?", not "Blockade runner vs. Deep space, or both?" I'm not the only one that was confused by this; Borgh Brainbasher was also comparing the frigates and the hauler. Initially, were the T2 transporters with +2 warp strength called Blockade Breakers, not Deep Space Transports, and the Blockade Runners were called Covert Ops transporters, because of their ability to fit covert ops cloaks. I did not know that this has changed and assumed the "Blockade Runner" was refering to the "Blockade Breaker". Still, I am not the one feeling confused. I only learn new things. Edit: Fixed my previous comments and I apologize for having caused a confusion - sorry. --

Lennvas	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:16:00 - [21] Sorry for the confusion I stirred, but indeed was I comparing the covert ops frigate (scanning/stealtbombers) with the blockaderunner(with cloaking).
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Whitehound Initially, were the T2 transporters with +2 warp strength called Blockade Breakers, not Deep Space Transports, and the Blockade Runners were called Covert Ops transporters, because of their ability to fit covert ops cloaks. I did not know that this has changed and assumed the "Blockade Runner" was refering to the "Blockade Breaker". Still, I am not the one feeling confused. I only learn new things. You're confusing yourself, and attempting to rationalise it. Fact is, the 'initial' situation you're trying to explain your confusion with never existed. You just remembered it wrong. Old situation: Blockade runners: warp strength bonus Deep Space Transports: tank bonus No cloaking transport ship. New situation (as of Quantum Rise): Blockade Runners: lost warp strength bonus, gained cloaking ability Deep Space Transports: gained warp strength bonus (kept tank bonus) See the relevant Dev Blog. Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Diefer Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Whitehound Initially, were the T2 transporters with +2 warp strength called Blockade Breakers, not Deep Space Transports, and the Blockade Runners were called Covert Ops transporters, because of their ability to fit covert ops cloaks. I did not know that this has changed and assumed the "Blockade Runner" was refering to the "Blockade Breaker". Still, I am not the one feeling confused. I only learn new things. /facepalm You cannot stop showing your ignorance, eh? Anyway, back to OP. BR is generally more useful, but if one has interest in PVP or exploring, then Covert Ops is the better long term choice. Train one matching your current direction in the game.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Whitehound on 02/05/2010 11:33:36 Originally by: Lennvas Sorry for the confusion I stirred, but indeed was I comparing the covert ops frigate (scanning/stealtbombers) with the blockaderunner(with cloaking). Why would you compare these two? They have quite different roles. You can use a T1 frigate for scanning and still fit a standard cloaking device onto it. A stealth bomber is really an offensive ship, a hauler certainly is not. Which role do you prefer for yourself? Do you like combat, to you like to fly assaults on other ships, or do you like to trade and haul stuff for others? Train for what you like best and train the other stuff on the side, and when it takes only little extra to get the skills for it. Training for a T2 transporter requires Industrial V (of a specific race) and lots of ISK for the ship. You better like hauling and risky transports while being more or less defenceless to fly one of those. Edit: @Dieter and Estel: I am really not bother by your opinion. --
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:38:00 - [25] Edited by: Estel Arador on 02/05/2010 11:43:18 Originally by: Whitehound Why would you compare these two? They have quite different roles. They have different roles, and they have similar roles. A Blockade Runner is used for hauling all kinds of stuff, a Cov Ops is used for Scanning and for gasp hauling high-value, low volume stuff. Both a Blockade Runner and Cov Ops can warp cloaked, both have high agility and (relatively) high warp speed. A Cov Ops has higher values for those things than a BR, but it also has a smaller cargohold and less hitpoints. Is there anything else you'd like to know? Edit: Originally by: Whitehound @Dieter and Estel: I am really not bother by your opinion. They were called Blockade Breakers. I find it incredible that any ship type has been referred to only half a dozen times in the history of EVE. There are 14 (fourteen) posts on EVE Search referring to "Blockade Breakers". Three of those posts are in this thread, at least 4 are referring to the act of breaking a blockade, not a ship type. What's the difficulty with saying "I was mistaken."? Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:50:00 - [26] Edited by: Whitehound on 02/05/2010 11:50:07 Originally by: Estel Arador They have different roles, and they have similar roles. A Blockade Runner is used for hauling all kinds of stuff, a Cov Ops is used for Scanning and for gasp hauling high-value, low volume stuff. I know their uses, Estel, but why would someone compare a hauler with a frigate? You cannot haul with a frigate what a hauler can. Originally by: Estel Arador What's the difficulty with saying "I was mistaken."? There is no difficulty as there is not need to say it. Moving on ... --
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.02 11:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Whitehound I know their uses, Estel, but why would someone compare a hauler with a frigate? You cannot haul with a frigate what a hauler can. And you cannot do it as fast with a hauler as a frigate can. The tradeoff is: high cargo, low speed low cargo, high speed What a comparison allows you to do is to decide if the advantage of a higher X offsets the disadvantage of a lower Y. In you reasoning, a freighter would be the best ship for hauling anything (even BPOs and salvage materials) since it has the highest cargo. Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 12:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Estel Arador And you cannot do it as fast with a hauler as a frigate can. Do not tell me, I am not the OP. But for the sake of having a discussion - yes, you are right. One can use an Interceptor for small transports, too. They cannot cloak but are the fastest ships, hard to lock on as well as hard to hit, making them equally good for hauling little stuff. But why compare the smallest ship classes, which can only haul small stuff, with a big hauler? What is there to haul? A small hint: the question needs to be answered by the OP. Not by you, Estel. He needs to figure out what it is he wants to haul. Worst case for him is that he has no need for either ships and may as well be training something differently. --
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.02 12:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Whitehound A small hint: the question needs to be answered by the OP. Not by you, Estel. He needs to figure out what it is he wants to haul. Worst case for him is that he has no need for either ships and may as well be training something differently. Again you're a bit confused. You seem to think our little discussion has anything to with the OP, while in fact it doesn't. Me lecturing you on the comparison between Blockade Runners and Cov Ops as haulers should not be confused with an attempt to address the question asked by the OP. OP doesn't want to use his Cov Ops as a hauler, his question was "have you any input why I should train the cov op instead, or additionaly?". That question has been answered sufficiently by others, that's why I'm indulging in attempting to educate you. I fear I have failed though. Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.02 12:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Estel Arador That question has been answered sufficiently by others, that's why I'm indulging in attempting to educate you. I fear I have failed though. That is because I do not take lessons from trolls. --



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