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A matter of curiosity: Languages and Translators

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Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 301	Posted - 2012.07.10 18:30:00 - [1] - Quote As most of you capsuleers are well aware there are a multitude of languages and dialects in New Eden, which of course I imagine seldom few of you know more than one or two of sans implants. I'm curious as to your translator settings and how you navigate these issues. For example, for text-based communication my computers all translate other languages into proper and correct Imperial Standard. Occasionally when the translator has an issue with a specific word I might get a [ ] with the closest Imperial approximation. For real-time vocal communication, my implants serve this function, and translate spoken dialogue directly into the Amarr tongue in my mind. My implants make adjustments for accents and dialects, so for example a Gallente speaker would be given an 'gallente' accent to my ears, which is a nice indicator of their native tongue. I can still 'hear' the native tongues if I choose but this seldom done, as I find it offensive to my ears. I of course do not deem to speak the language of the lesser races under any circumstances, and additionally reserve the ancient tongue for private rituals and intimate situations. How do you capsuleers navigate these issues in your own ways?
Benjamin Eastwood Oshaima Exports 43	Posted - 2012.07.10 19:00:00 - [2] - Quote I've made a concerted effort in my schooling to familiarize myself with the major languages of New Eden. Whilst I may not be able to speak most of it fluidly, my business contacts have greatly appreciate the time I took to negotiate with them in their native tongue. However all of my interfacing with equipment and text is translated. I eschew the use of implants. Many a spy has been given away through the subtle slip of the tongue, and being able to hear that slip is especially important.
Ston Momaki Disciples of Ston 194	Posted - 2012.07.10 19:06:00 - [3] - Quote I find translation technology to be most helpful. Because of the speed of translators, I able to hear the sound and quality of the person's voice but in my language. As said, accents and dialect characteristics are preserved. Unlike Ms Vitalia, I find these nuances of culture and language a joy to hear. In our rescue work, I speak from the pod to our rescued ones and they respond back. Both of us hear the other with all the emotion, rhythm, stresses, and poetry of our respective tongue, yet in well translated order in our own understood language. Is it a stressed language or fluid language? I want to hear the art of the language as well as the specific content. I set my written translators to minimal in order to preserve differences such as word order and syntax arrangements. Having studied some language, I find that I can usually finish the translation in my head. I like to see different word orders, because they often create a different word picture. That, after all is part of the uniqueness of language and part of what makes a culture different from my own. Let me give you an example. Some languages have what is called a reciprocal pronoun. It is a pronoun that only occurs in the plural. It is often mis-translated with a reflexive pronoun in some languages by some translator programs. A reciprocal pronoun is alway plural, even when spoken by an individual in individual conversation. It is used more commonly by cultures that are highly communal and less individualistic. The reflexive pronoun is not an accurate replacement. I set my translators to preserve such language distinctives both in written and spoken communication. Even so, sometimes nuances are lost. The Disciples of Ston bid you peace
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 706	Posted - 2012.07.10 19:08:00 - [4] - Quote My translator settings are similarly configured as yours S.V., especially regarding vocal accents. I no longer verbally speak Napaani to those who don't already speak it and understand the measure of respect I am affording them by using it. Thus, I typically reserve its use for official memorandums, notices, press releases, and other formal correspondence.
Nicoletta Mithra Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah 92	Posted - 2012.07.10 21:58:00 - [5] - Quote A translation is always flawed in relation to the original. Learning the language is a necessity if one wants to understand.
Diablo Ex Red-Five 70	Posted - 2012.07.10 22:04:00 - [6] - Quote Well as for myself, I do try to keep things simple. My native tongue is of course Caldari, which I find to be most convenient as everybody else who seeks to conduct business in Jita has managed to adapt themselves already. Therefore the only languages that I have found a need to learn has been Amarr, and of course the Ancient Tongue for personal observances. As for the rest I tend to either utilize slaves adept to serving as translators, or my on board missile systems as I deen appropriate. Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost 73	Posted - 2012.07.10 23:49:00 - [7] - Quote I normally will set my translators to either Seb common or vulgar Amarrish, depending on the company around and the atmosphere. Combat comms are in Seb common, though (fleet battles or intense stalking efforts leave little mental capacity for fussing with translator settings). Gallentean tongues I always translate, usually to Seb as vulgar Amarrish doesn't map well to them much of the time. I also need a bit of help with the other Matari dialects (Brutor and Krusual, in particular), Napanii (I can make out enough of the language when hearing it to get by, but my knowledge and High Amarrish; I don't think I've ever had someone try to speak native Achur at me laughs Last but not least, Ni-Kunniae I usually translate to vulgar Amarrish. For written texts, I generally write and read Seb (the Amarrish alphabet is a bit awkward for me to use, still...) and rely on the translators for, well, almost everything else. I can read bits and pieces of Amarrish, but can't write it at all; just how do you Amarrians form some of those letters anyway?
Scherezad Hobgoblin Marketeers 78	Posted - 2012.07.11 03:48:00 - [8] - Quote I prefer to communicate through a vocal translator when interacting casually, much to my chagrin. I speak Napanii and Achuran, and a smattering of Gallente. If I must make a concrete or solid statement, I do so in writing, as I'm far more clear that way. I have to admit, I frequently have translation problems. This said, my communication problems run far deeper than mistranslation.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1025	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:01:00 - [9] - Quote In the event of a translator malfunction, I find that speaking Amarrian loudly and slowly generally gets the point across. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Makkal Hanaya 241	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:23:00 - [10] - Quote Has anyone else gotten this weird glitch there almost all the words someone says or writes is translated except for their greeting? Please tell me I am not the only one. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
Ava Starfire Skadi's Call Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 332	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:28:00 - [11] - Quote As I speak very little Modern Standard Matari, my implants cannot always translate words and phrases from another language to my own (Sebiestor) which can be quite frustrating; this is especially true with slang or figures of speech. Progress is being made in this area, and hopefully, someday, I will be able to hear everyone in my own language. I do speak Amarrian quite fluently, however, so generally, my translator converts things to Amarrian for me, which is much more widely supported and recognized. I tend to reserve speaking my native language for other Sebiestor anyway, and muddle through what MSM I know when speaking with other Minmatar. Also, I find that screaming at someone in Sebiestor is far more convincing than doing as the good Admiral Blake suggests!
Ava Starfire Skadi's Call Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 332	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:31:00 - [12] - Quote Makkal Hanaya wrote: Has anyone else gotten this weird glitch there almost all the words someone says or writes is translated except for their greeting? Please tell me I am not the only one. This is likely due to a literal difference in the direct meaning of their words and the word's meanings in common usage. For example, a common greeting in my region of Mikramurka is hvit nott, which literally translates to "white night". This phrase has a double meaning for us; it can refer to one of those snowy nights when the world seems to glow with its own light... or it can simply be used as a greeting, much like others might say "Good morning". Many words in other languages simply have no direct translation, and when they do... well, sometimes, that translation just makes no sense. Ava
Tiberious Thessalonia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 347	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:36:00 - [13] - Quote I've been told that the reason why some words are not translated (this is especially true of much of Napaani) is because the speaker -has turned off my translators ability to translate that word-. I find this a bit rude, frankly.
Makkal Hanaya 241	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:56:00 - [14] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: How do you capsuleers navigate these issues in your own ways? I speak Amarrian, Amarrish, and Amarrad. I was taught 'basic Caldari,' which is apparently not used by most Caldari capsuleers because of its strong Galletean influence, but is still taught in the Kingdom because the first Caldari we made contact with spoke it. That means I'm struggling to learn Napanii at the moment. Though if I were to be honest, all I need to know is Kaalakiota Okusaika hovest okusaika! and Nei arekainaraya! I'm sure if I ran around shouting those at random, 80% of my communication with the Caldari would be a success. As for the various Galletean and Matari tongues: use the translator and set it to default settings. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
Scherezad Hobgoblin Marketeers 78	Posted - 2012.07.11 14:14:00 - [15] - Quote Makkal Hanaya wrote: Though if I were to be honest, all I need to know is Kaalakiota Okusaika hovest okusaika! and Nei arekainaraya! I'm sure if I ran around shouting those at random, 80% of my communication with the Caldari would be a success. Uka arekainya! Nei suskidei uoka hyovata! Those might be useful as well!
Malcolm Khross Wiyrkomi Honor Guard 380	Posted - 2012.07.11 14:54:00 - [16] - Quote Just a note to both Lady Hanaya and Scherezad, It may be prudent to translate what you've said in Napanii for the sake of others, especially since many consider it rude to intentionally disengage your translator to speak in a language others will not understand. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video))
Anabella Rella Gradient Electus Matari 174	Posted - 2012.07.11 15:57:00 - [17] - Quote I grew up speaking a pretty formalized (what my mother called "proper") form of Gallentean and that's pretty much all I speak to this day. I have my various translation interfaces set to give me results in this language although since I moved to the Republic a number of years ago I began learning Standard Matari and more recently, thanks to Ava, Sebiestor. Caldari languages I find very difficult and I refuse to speak any form of Amarrian. As I don't wish to offend anyone by mispronunciation, I generally leave the heavy lifting to the translation algorithms and stick to the language I know best. I'm hoping that soon, when I'm confident enough, that I'll be able to hold a coherent conversation in Sebiestor. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 302	Posted - 2012.07.11 16:02:00 - [18] - Quote (( I propose an RP convention for when 'translators' are used for difficult speech. So if you want to be flowery and type in a foreign language, just put a [ ] after with how the phrase is translated. Gives you opportunity to force others to poorly translate your idioms if you want to be difficult :P Can also include whatever info our translator would give us automatically... You can of course avoid for obscure and unknown tongues which would not likely be commonly known. "So I said to my clan-mates, hvit nott [ white night (idiom) - friendly greeting ] " ))
Nuran Mukadder Chor Aurea 6	Posted - 2012.07.11 17:31:00 - [19] - Quote Translators are a necessary compromise given the multitude of live languages, accents and dialects across New Eden. While both software and hardware are conveniently seamless for capsuleers (i remember reading a paper about how ideas and concepts are actually intercepted before reaching the speech centers on the brain, thus allowing for more precise contextual translations) it still feels like looking through frosted glass. Now, Linguistics is an old passion of mine; hard plenty of opportunities to experience foreign languages in my pre-capsuleer years at Irmalin. One aspect that impacted me the most is how some phrases and expressions have much information density - enough to force the source to break any translation attempt and cite the expression itself, the option being to describe the whole context, something that can be time-consuming. Just to illustrate this point, i want to share something that happened a few months ago. I passed through Luminaire together with a Caldari corpmate, and we made a slight change of course in order to see the Titan stationed there. 'I wonder what Taleweaver Kerghans would write about this', she said - and tossed me a Starsi bottle. She then said something that would translate as 'It does taste like revenge'. It looked like it meant a lot to her, so i decided to dig some information later. Took me a couple months to compile the available information about the Taleweaver and the whole promotional campaign for Starsi, how it was related to Caldari Prime, how it impacted the life of this corpmate - and why even State dissidents have a grudging respect for this sole point of Heth's administration.
Lyn Farel Kitzless 317	Posted - 2012.07.11 17:34:00 - [20] - Quote Translators - capsule modules or implants are mostly flawless and usual greetings of most of the common tongues of the cluster are obviously stored in all standard linguistic library packages. Every form of greeting and common slang is usually perfectly translated. If you do not believe it, then nobody would get any greetings translated in their own tongue and you would see everyone greeting each other in languages you do not understand. Which is not the case. When such cases happen is simply tied to a conscious choice of the author to "bypass" the translation protocols with simple generic command indicating to the reciever that the message is not to be translated. If this kind of signal can be shut down or not, I do not know, and I do not know either what are the reasons for it to exist in the first place. But eventually I find it highly useful to use it as a common mark of respect whenever I want to greet someone in their native languages, and want them to know it.
Odelya d'Hanguest Khanid-damashii 62	Posted - 2012.07.11 18:26:00 - [21] - Quote Interesting! Now that youGÇÖve mentioned it I checked my implants, found that dialect function, and activated it. Now I am really curious to meet my GÇ£firstGÇ¥ Gallente! It was always strange to me that some foreigners appeared to speak our languages so fluently. When I am walking around in Dam-Torsad I sometimes switch my translator off. I really enjoy listening to all those different languages and accents and see all those different scripts and numerals. My mother tongue is Khanid, but when I speak to other capsuleers I actually always make use of Imperial Standard. I find it polluting and desacralising to hear some subalterns GÇ£speakGÇ¥ Khanid while in reality they are replying in some pidgin language. Battle comms and briefings are always in Khanid. No translators used. I know itGÇÖs mostly flawless, as Lyn Farel pointed out, but it is not only about meaning, but also about intonation and melody. And I am not convinced that the translators can actually reshape them precisely and tie them to their original carrier. So I select only Khanid officers, who can actually read the particular mystique and characteristic wisdom of our noble warrior class. Our entire race is one large family based on a set of ancient and immutable laws which cannot be translated by any means.
Makkal Hanaya Hanaya Deferment Co 243	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:51:00 - [22] - Quote Scherezad wrote: Makkal Hanaya wrote: Though if I were to be honest, all I need to know is Kaalakiota Okusaika hovest okusaika! and Nei arekainaraya! I'm sure if I ran around shouting those at random, 80% of my communication with the Caldari would be a success. Uka arekainya! Nei suskidei uoka hyovata! Those might be useful as well! Let's see: You do it! ~~I the faith that your target!~~ I have faith you'll succeed! Correct? although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 317	Posted - 2012.07.11 20:53:00 - [23] - Quote I grew up speaking two languages: Gallentean and Modern Classic Intaki (MCI). At school, the former took precedence in most cases, but my father, as an Intaki native himself, was adamant that I be able to speak both languages with equal levels of fluency and skill, so while both languages were used at home, MCI was given slightly more emphasis. I grew up in one of Caille's cultural districts, so there were plenty of opportunities to use either language outside of the home as I pleased. I've added another pair of languages - Amarrish and Khanid - after spending most of the last year and a half living in the Kingdom. I used the assistance of a translator briefly while I was learning the basics, but once I had those down I elected for full immersion. Sure, I screwed up a bunch at first, but with enough practice and encouragement, it feels just as natural to me to respond with either of those as it would with either Gallentean or MCI. With that preface out of the way - as far as my personal use of translators goes, I prefer to speak to people using a common language (theirs, preferably, if I know it) if possible. It's the polite thing to do. However, if I'm in the capsule, it's already on by default, and I generally see no reason to turn it off at that point. Overuse of the feature that allows one to force a particular phrase or word to go untranslated on the receiving end can be mildly irritating, but it takes very little effort to just say, "I didn't quite catch that, could you please repeat what you said" and be done with it. Not to mention that by now, the typical case of it being employed when greeting others should make the occasional stand-out appearance of words like saisieni, salve and ashaltiasten in the middle of everything else just part of daily conversation.
Scherezad Hobgoblin Marketeers 78	Posted - 2012.07.11 22:44:00 - [24] - Quote Makkal Hanaya wrote: Let's see: You do it! ~~I the faith that your target!~~ I have faith you'll succeed! Correct? Exactly. You're very talented.
Diana Kim Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession 62	Posted - 2012.07.13 10:23:00 - [25] - Quote Most of the time I use Napanii with translator. I have been taught to give and perfectly understand orders in Napanii, as well as interrogate prisoners and for basic conversations with civilians. I am trying to practise my skills and use this language to honor my father, who, unfortunately, didn't have enough time to train me. However, when the text that I'm trying to read is too hard to comprehend, I briefly switch translator to my mother's language.
Ssakaa Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 216	Posted - 2012.07.13 13:00:00 - [26] - Quote Learned the Krusual formal and informal, Sebiestor formal and a bit of Thukker-talk, when opportunity arises to learn the tongue of those splendid, dizzy, folk. Also the glottal nefantar which shares roots with Krusual more than the other ~~Minmatar~~ tongues, but naturally there's that danger that their words of treachery will strangle you whilst you sleep. (Wait for it...) CMS-17 IV-á-á

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