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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.06 03:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 06/05/2010 03:53:39 A stated aim of CCP with the Dominion changes was to lure people to 0.0. It might seem strange that someone from a PvP Alliance is looking to get miners into 0.0, but it's about population growth and miners who come to 0.0 will also learn some PvP, so it's good for everyone. The industrial index, which is what is needed for certain exploration sites, requires miners to maintain it. Miners need a place to refine their ore. With the current system, Minmatar outposts have a clear advantage over the other outposts to lure miners. i.e. they can achieve a 100% refine with a little effort, and start out with a refinery û albeit a rather poor yielding one, even before upgrades.
This proposal isnÆt about nerfing the Minmatar Outpost, or taking itÆs advantage away, but it is about bringing the other outposts up to some level of refining ability so that they are viable for miners. The sole reason for these upgrades is to lure miners to nullsec. Un-protected miners = dead miners i.e. miners that will soon learn to bring protection, while miners who bring a protective detail means profits for them and pew-pew for the rest of us (frankly ganking miners is no fun, but fighting their security team is).
So without further ado, hereÆs what IÆm proposing:
Upgrade the Minmatar OutpostÆs base yield to 35% and reduce the upgrade bonus to 5% per level. This still caps it out at 50% for Level 3 upgrade, but will provide an instant boost to the outposts out there with Level 1 or Level 2 upgrades (or even those without upgrades for that matter).
Upgrade all other outposts to a 10% base yield to provide the most basic of refining (A max skill pilot would get a bit over 60% without an implant û slightly better with the implant but still less than two thirds). Leave the upgrade bonus at 10% per level for these outposts, meaning the other outpost can achieve a 40% base yield, but at considerable expense. A 20% or 30% base yield would be achievable in any outpost with a level 1 or 2 upgrade.
This provides some incentive for miners to do their thing and will allow manufacturers access to more minerals in 0.0. Overall this makes things more self sufficient for an Alliance in 0.0, without making it too easy.
IÆve linked a spreadsheet showing that a 100% yield would be possible in a non-Minmatar outpost, but would require considerable training. The Minmatar Outpost maintains itÆs supremacy, as pilots would need less training to achieve good yields at these outposts, while other outposts have at least a reasonable prospect of attracting miners. Changing the values in the green boxes will show how different skills can achieve different yields in the different outposts.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1005/Outpost_Refining_Proposal.zip ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Taxesarebad
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Posted - 2010.05.06 04:58:00 -
[2]
the reason ppl arnt in null is because of the image people get, when you say nullsec to any highsec player they think ima get blobed ima get gatecamped people will ransom me then kill me anyways all the things i wanna do are avalible in highsec or wormhole space, so why go to 0.0 make a new mineral that only spawns in ores from 0.0 and low sec = more people go... that is all
-------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;) |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.06 09:17:00 -
[3]
Quote: Un-protected miners = dead miners i.e. miners that will soon learn to bring protection, while miners who bring a protective detail means profits for them and pew-pew for the rest of us (frankly ganking miners is no fun, but fighting their security team is).
Protected miners = dead miners.
For normal mining op you will only bring 1 or 2 ships for protection (bit more if you are only doing it as cover to bait a cloaker). One to tank npc spawns, and maybe a zealot or something to pop the random SB or advanced tackler. Besides that your protection consists of warping to a POS in time, since hulks are way too flimsy to be anywhere near a fight, even if they got 200 snipers protecting them. Not to mention it would be way expensive to have a serious protection team with miners.
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Javajunky
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Posted - 2010.05.06 14:01:00 -
[4]
Although I like the solution, it's not addressing the primary issue. Null Sec Mining in most cases is a very very high risk proposition from a minerÆs perspective and it really has little to do with outpost / pos refining rates as it does with survivability. Null sec mining only has a proportionate risk / reward equation under the following circumstances (a) youÆve got a security team parked on the hulks, usually you need a security team big enough to scare away anyone dumb enough try and pop a hulk, expensive and difficult to organize; (b) youÆve already got a system that has sufficient mining level and deep in null sec space that seeÆs little traffic.
Hulks need a buff to surviablity / escapability, better yet û start talking a T3 ships mining exhumer because the drop in null sec mineral ore prices doesnÆt make providing security viable anymore. I would be the first in line to pay 600M to 800M for something that didnÆt make me feel like a giant bulleye. As someone whoÆs his share of hulks in null sec, give me a chance to atleast make a break for it.
IÆd be interested to see how that balances out against the meta 0 nerf in a couple weeks. As long as a hulk is fish in a barrel and null/low sec mineral prices remain where they are, the risk / reward scenario doesnÆt pan out unless you are one of the lucky few I mentioned in the paragraph above. Maybe prices of null sec minerals will make it viable to pay for security again, but thatÆs not probable since itÆs probably more designed to offset the insurance changes.
Just my 0.02isk.
Java
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Li Oiti
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Posted - 2010.05.06 14:20:00 -
[5]
Hello,
It will not make move miners to 0.0 but it will make people upgrade the existing systems and build real living places.
Then you will have more miners simply because there is more people around the same system.
Totally 100% even if just +5% for the last upgrade.
Li
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.06 17:54:00 -
[6]
I don't live in 0.0, but all the material I've ever seen on Minmatar outposts say that your proposal of 35% base refine, +5%/level, is already exactly the numbers that they have. Am I missing something here?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Xenogenesis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.06 18:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I don't live in 0.0, but all the material I've ever seen on Minmatar outposts say that your proposal of 35% base refine, +5%/level, is already exactly the numbers that they have. Am I missing something here?
Other than he's drawing conclusions that just don't make sense? No not much.
Refinement at a Minmatar outpost caps out at 50 to 80% (it wasn't the best but it didn't suck either) If I'm not mistaken... I was there... saw it myself. Problem is there was a tax that kinda messed it up... so perhaps it is nearly 100%. Don't remember... I know it wasn't 35% (Check BPO's for outposts... that's where you'll get the base facts at because my refining skills pushed it pretty high)
Point is... the OP is horridly misguided or misguiding the public.
What he proposes would make alliances much more efficient and richer when it comes to the economics.
In all honesty his alliance prob. got the crappiest hand dealt with there space and ended up with a ton of outposts none of which are Minmatar or only one and having trouble getting there goods refined.
This is nothing more than a stealth threadnaught trying to change the game mechanics in there favor.
Good intentions... but they go straight to hell. (At least the proposal is rational... just not good for the game)
Not supporting.
While I would personally like to see all outposts get used for such things... I feel changing that NOW would really mess up the balance of power in a big bad ugly way.
If it was that much of a problem... I say outposts should be destroyable/destructible... rebuild what you want... problem solved. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.06 23:40:00 -
[8]
Firstly - yes I screwed up the Minmatar outpost's current status - my info was badly researched. So the Minmatar Outpost doesn't need a change to it's refineries.
Anyway, it's been pointed out that the same situation occurs with labs, factories and offices.
e.g. The Minmatar outpost gets zero lab slots out of the box, while Caldari get plenty and the others get a few.
So I guess this proposal should be broadened to include labs, offices and factories. Maintaining the factional advantages, but bringing a basic level of all services to the outposts out of the box and allowing upgrades would make outposts a little more like an NPC station. ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University |
Lord Dralos
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Posted - 2010.05.10 19:00:00 -
[9]
hmm lemme think about this you want me and many others like me to bring our expencive hulks and orcas into 0.0 for what exactly ?. if its to mine well pretty much i can mine everything i need either in high sec or in wh's and the risks are marginal even in a wh compared to oh i dont know having a carrier or two dropped on me for fun . nahh you want us in 0.0 then start giving us T2 and T3 ships and capital ships untill then have fun in empty space we will be thinking about you while hiding in empire space :P.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.10 20:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka Firstly - yes I screwed up the Minmatar outpost's current status - my info was badly researched. So the Minmatar Outpost doesn't need a change to it's refineries.
Anyway, it's been pointed out that the same situation occurs with labs, factories and offices.
e.g. The Minmatar outpost gets zero lab slots out of the box, while Caldari get plenty and the others get a few.
So I guess this proposal should be broadened to include labs, offices and factories. Maintaining the factional advantages, but bringing a basic level of all services to the outposts out of the box and allowing upgrades would make outposts a little more like an NPC station.
So what you're saying is that you don't like racial outposts, and want them all to be the same?
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