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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.07 03:47:00 -
[1]
So our humble crew of 7 pilots declared war on an alliance consisting of 17 corporations, one hour after the dec email went out 15 of their corporations left the alliance presumably to avoid the dec. Is this a legitimate tactic? Looking at their alliance history it doesn't appear to be the first time many of them have left and rejoined. Thoughts or suggestions anyone?
For name and shame purposes it was MPA alliance. |
Gregor Vernof
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.05.07 03:54:00 -
[2]
Unfortunately it seems that it is, however rejoining right after a war dec has dropped and a documented pattern of this activity EVERY SINGLE TIME the Alliance is dec'd may be petition-able... may be being the operative phrase there....
... oh and you wanted a petition of this nature to have a concise and measurable effect on their behavior in future war decs...? 
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Roastedpot
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.07 04:03:00 -
[3]
leaving the alliance is not an exploit, the exploit is the creation of a pattern that every time you get dec'd you leave and then rejoin when the dec is gone. how many times = a pattern? dunno. noir. got yelled at for it even though we were the ones dec'ing and it was to extend a war in order to take out the contract pos.. so.. it is pretty random
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.07 04:05:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Gregor Vernof
... oh and you wanted a petition of this nature to have a concise and measurable effect on their behavior in future war decs...?
]
I assumed it would be considered legitimate as there is no way to really prove their intentions. Was hoping for suggestions to combat this tactic if you have any. Deccing each corp individually is obviously not an option, and after their rather ridiculous response to the first dec I must admit my interest in turning their ships into space dust has been elevated.
Know any good ways to continue the fight that seems to have been effectively brushed off to the side?
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.07 04:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Roastedpot
Edited by: Roastedpot on 07/05/2010 04:05:23
leaving the alliance is not an exploit, the exploit is the creation of a pattern that every time you get dec'd you leave and then rejoin when the dec is gone. how many times = a pattern? dunno. noir. got yelled at for it even though we were the ones dec'ing and it was to extend a war in order to take out the contract pos.. so.. it is pretty random
Do you think it would be worth it to drop our dec, let them all rejoin, then redec them in the hopes that they would do the same thing so that a petition could possible change their behavior on the third attempt?
We have patience, and like I said they are much more satisfying targets after this stunt. |
Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.05.07 05:02:00 -
[6]
Notably passable quality. Packaging was pedestrian. Immensely decent delivery. C+
~_~
(Retired from ship toasting. Now a professional.)
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.07 05:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Notably passable quality. Packaging was pedestrian. Immensely decent delivery. C+
I assume this is a troll rating, I had considered that it would be taken that way. Thanks for the feedback on any future attempts at trolling I may make.
Not trolling this time though, not a stealth nerf this mechanic thread I promise. We have decided to dec the largest corp that left and continue with them while we wait for the alliance to reform so that we may re-dec them for documentation purposes.
Anything else you might recommend as far as a course of action? |
Grohalmatar
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.05.07 05:38:00 -
[8]
Suicide gank their Hulk pilots. Since they left the alliance, you won't flash in local, and they won't see you coming. You can make over 150m a suicide gank!!!
. . . unless you are afraid of taking the sec hit (pansy)
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.05.07 08:29:00 -
[9]
I guess it's the same like with corps. Corpmembers are free to drop out any time to form a new corp. You are free to dec those new corps.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:11:00 -
[10]
This of it this way.. Your 7 man corp pretty much decimated that alliance. now move on.
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John Caffeine
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:12:00 -
[11]
Seems like a good tactic on their part. And you guys really should have seen it comming .
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Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:15:00 -
[12]
Dec some of the corps that have fled the alliance, and let the alliance dec drop. If the corps you decced rejoin the alliance, then leave again, then its pretty obvious they're exploiting the alliance mechanic.
---
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.07 10:19:00 -
[13]
Hire some mercs on some of the corps, perhaps try to find some other PVP corps willing to dec a few of the corps for you.
A co-operative effort to harvest such flighty carebears could be amusing indeed. |
Roastedpot
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.08 07:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Seether Kaan
Originally by: Roastedpot
Edited by: Roastedpot on 07/05/2010 04:05:23
leaving the alliance is not an exploit, the exploit is the creation of a pattern that every time you get dec'd you leave and then rejoin when the dec is gone. how many times = a pattern? dunno. noir. got yelled at for it even though we were the ones dec'ing and it was to extend a war in order to take out the contract pos.. so.. it is pretty random
Do you think it would be worth it to drop our dec, let them all rejoin, then redec them in the hopes that they would do the same thing so that a petition could possible change their behavior on the third attempt?
We have patience, and like I said they are much more satisfying targets after this stunt.
if you have the money and time, and you really want to shoot those corps dec the corps as well. you'll have the vote +24hrs of course but they either rejoin the alliance (insta-shooty) or you can shoot them after 48hrs. the only other option for them is to bail out of the corp (likely what will happen) or join another alliance that wants the dec to try to shoot you while they hide. either way it is gunna be boring for you. if you wait and repeat and they drop again definitely petition although it is just a 50/50 shot. what i have seen happen is they get pushed back into the alliance by the GM and locked in there for the duration of the war which is pretty nice.
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Christophe Boisvert
Gallente
Independent Traders and Builders
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Posted - 2010.05.08 16:35:00 -
[15]
Seems to me, that if you want to play pvp, you should wardec an alliance that will shoot back.
It really doesn't take any balls to wardec a carebear does it?
It sounds like this alliance it just trying to leave a bad taste in your mouth so that they can go on playing the game they want to play, and you can move on and play the game you want to play. It's a pretty big universe after all.
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Urn Keller
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Christophe Boisvert
Seems to me, that if you want to play pvp, you should wardec an alliance that will shoot back.
It really doesn't take any balls to wardec a carebear does it?
It sounds like this alliance it just trying to leave a bad taste in your mouth so that they can go on playing the game they want to play, and you can move on and play the game you want to play. It's a pretty big universe after all.
It's not like they have no recourse. They could find the ISKs to make an alliance. They can afford to pay decent mercs for a counter dec. Or pay off the other corp/alliance.
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CCP Shadow
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Roastedpot
... if you want to know, create a petition and get a gm to decide if they are abusing the mechanic or not
Quoted for truth.
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Whiny McEmokid
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Christophe Boisvert
Seems to me, that if you want to play pvp, you should wardec an alliance that will shoot back.
It really doesn't take any balls to wardec a carebear does it?
It sounds like this alliance it just trying to leave a bad taste in your mouth so that they can go on playing the game they want to play, and you can move on and play the game you want to play. It's a pretty big universe after all.
even i don't cry this much.
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.08 22:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Christophe Boisvert
Seems to me, that if you want to play pvp, you should wardec an alliance that will shoot back.
It really doesn't take any balls to wardec a carebear does it?
It sounds like this alliance it just trying to leave a bad taste in your mouth so that they can go on playing the game they want to play, and you can move on and play the game you want to play. It's a pretty big universe after all.
So the guy I quoted sounded really whiny and butt-hurt... I'll be honest, that's a quality we often look for in our decs because it usually leads to lots of fun. So I looked him up and was getting ready to dec him instead with our open slot and low and behold he is of the MPA evaders. I particularly like how you say "It sounds like this alliance" making it sound like you are some sort of objective third party.
Anyway, Christophe Boisvert.... I choose you. |
Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.08 23:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Quoted for truth.
Petitioned for justice |
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.05.08 23:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 08/05/2010 23:38:42
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Originally by: Roastedpot
... if you want to know, create a petition and get a gm to decide if they are abusing the mechanic or not
Quoted for truth.
To be fair, on this, and other wardec issues (of which there is is a whopping great big list), you'll get half a dozen different answers depending on which GM you get.
This isn't the fault of the GMS, who in all my dealings with them have been nothing short of excellent, and are in my opinion the shining jewel in the CCP crown.
Its the fault of shoddy wardec mechanics, and arbitrary and non consistent decisions by CCP on the implementation on them.
The simple fact of the matter is, asking on the forums, is probably the best thing to do in this case, as people who have been tracking the whole "wardec thing" for years know five times more then anyone at CCP does.
You could quite easily petition, get an answer, and carry on your merry way - where as an escalation of the petition would get you a judgement totally different.
SKUNK
(o)
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Christophe Boisvert
Gallente
Independent Traders and Builders
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Posted - 2010.05.09 00:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Christophe Boisvert on 09/05/2010 00:54:11
I was speaking in third person because Seether Kaan didn't mention the alliance. Secondly, I'm not an officer of the corp, so I really can't speak about ITAB's policy. Tell you what, since you think I'm a worthy target, I'll just hop to my personal corp, and you can war dec that.
As for whining, it was nothing of the kind. I was simply making the suggestion that if he wants a war, there are many corp out there that do like to shoot back, and he might have more fun with them. Now that Seether has war deced the corp, I'll just fly a viator while the war is hot.
I've been at this nearly two years now, I know how I like to handle war.
At Tycoon III, I hardly need to undock, so I doubt you'll do me any damage. So keep flushing your isk down the toilet if you like. If that's what you call fun .. go for it.
Ad Jesum per Mariam,
Chris
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.09 01:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Christophe Boisvert
Edited by: Christophe Boisvert on 09/05/2010 00:54:11
I was speaking in third person because Seether Kaan didn't mention the alliance. Secondly, I'm not an officer of the corp, so I really can't speak about ITAB's policy. Tell you what, since you think I'm a worthy target, I'll just hop to my personal corp, and you can war dec that.
As for whining, it was nothing of the kind. I was simply making the suggestion that if he wants a war, there are many corp out there that do like to shoot back, and he might have more fun with them. Now that Seether has war deced the corp, I'll just fly a viator while the war is hot.
I've been at this nearly two years now, I know how I like to handle war.
At Tycoon III, I hardly need to undock, so I doubt you'll do me any damage. So keep flushing your isk down the toilet if you like. If that's what you call fun .. go for it.
Ad Jesum per Mariam,
Chris
Notably, his "hop" into his personal corp suggestion came minutes after his current corp was decced. Almost like there is some sort of pattern going on with him..... crazy.... |
Christophe Boisvert
Gallente
Independent Traders and Builders
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Posted - 2010.05.09 01:26:00 -
[24]
Oh good you can recognize patterns!
Yes in fact, I learned to do this in my first few weeks with Eve University. It's very common practice with them.
Anyway, I've hit my eject button with ITAB to give up my research lab access. so in less than 24 hours I'll be in Red Brangus Unlimited [RBU] if you care to war dec that early.
Also anyone who cares to waste isk may war dec my one man corp too.
Again, you won't ever get a chance to shoot me, as I can accomplish a lot with my viator and arazu.
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Pankas Carter
Photon Technologies
Obsidian Order.
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Posted - 2010.05.09 01:32:00 -
[25]
Some days C&P reminds me so much of Jerry Springer.
You know you shouldn't watch, you know it's ****ty drama-queenery... but you just can't look away. Call it morbid fascination.
-- (start sig) --
Quote:
A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one.
- Aristotle
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Christophe Boisvert
Gallente
Independent Traders and Builders
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Posted - 2010.05.09 01:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pankas Carter
Some days C&P reminds me so much of Jerry Springer.
You know you shouldn't watch, you know it's ****ty drama-queenery... but you just can't look away. Call it morbid fascination.
Hehe, well in a perverse sort of way I guess I'm pleased I'm providing so much entertainment.
Before this thread, I never really participated in the forums, but maybe that will change now.
If anyone were to read the bio on my toon, you'd find it begins with an allusion to Star Trek notably:
34. Peace is good for business.
35. War is good for business.
Which should most people will understand, but for the benefit of people like Seether, the game I like to play is the uber trader that sells arms to both sides of a war. Maybe thatĘs depraved, but itĘs how I have my fun.
In my early days with Eve University, war decs from the privateers were very common, and the leadership would set the tax rate to 100% to keep people from missioning. So I quickly developed trade skills so I could make good ISK without ever undocking.
When it comes to actually fighting, I am probably the worst fitter in existence, so I donĘt bother fighting anymore. Lest we forget, historical characters like Mahatma Ghandi, and Martin Luther King Jr. have demonstrated that you can accomplish a political aim without returning violence for violence.
In Eve terms, yes, you can war dec me, but donĘt expect me to shoot back. If thatĘs the way you like to spend your isk, well the game mechanics allow for it donĘt they?
Ad Jesum per Mariam,
Chris
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Harrigan VonStudly
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.05.09 02:05:00 -
[27]
Ewww the arrogant carebear stink is high from Chriswhatshisface in this one.
So I understand Chrissy ol' boy. You play a game designed and intended to be pvp based only to not want to shoot back.
You consider war decs a waste of isk. I take it you save and save and save and do nothing with yours.
And why did you join Eve Uni if you weren't going to pvp ever?
OP I'd say the fact that a 17 corp alliance emo rage quits from a 7 man corp dec'ing it is fail I'd name and shame them if I was you.
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Pankas Carter
Photon Technologies
Obsidian Order.
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Posted - 2010.05.09 02:22:00 -
[28]
I have to say my opinion of you (which was 0.0 neutral) just dropped a few points for using the word "toon" outside of a fantasy RPG MMO...
Even in that context it's childish and makes no sense. What's it a shortening of? Char, alt, etc - those all make sense. Cartoon - wait, what?
Anyways. I didn't mean to derail the thread. Just making an observation about all the finger-pointery and crying all around.
-- (start sig) --
Quote:
A great city is not to be confounded with a populous one.
- Aristotle
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Seether Kaan
The Resurgent Insurgent
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Posted - 2010.05.09 02:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Christophe Boisvert
Which should most people will understand, but for the benefit of people like Seether, the game I like to play is the uber trader that sells arms to both sides of a war.
For your own benefit, I would like to point out that nobody was contesting that, and I'm pretty sure the only person who felt that it needed any clarification was you. The topic at hand is about 15 corps, one of which was yours, leaving the alliance every time it gets decced. Your desired career in EVE is irrelevant to the discussion.
We are talking about what constitutes use versus abuse of some game mechanics and how they apply to declarations of war. My assertion is that you are an abuser of these mechanics as your corporation left the alliance with the others upon our arrival and have done so repeatedly to avoid one of the risks associated with an alliance. I also commented that I feel you likely view corp jumping to avoid a dec in the same light, albeit less tactfully than I have stated it now.
Once again to clarify this for you so that you don't fall behind and go an another irrelevant tangent while ironically implying I didn't understand something, the topic is war dec mechanics and how you are using them.
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Baillif
Red Mist Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.09 02:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Roastedpot
Edited by: Roastedpot on 07/05/2010 04:06:32
Edited by: Roastedpot on 07/05/2010 04:05:23
leaving the alliance is not an exploit, the exploit is the creation of a pattern that every time you get dec'd you leave and then rejoin when the dec is gone. how many times = a pattern? dunno. noir. got yelled at for it even though we were the ones dec'ing and it was to extend a war in order to take out the contract pos.. so.. it is pretty random
and i should clarify, players leaving corps and rejoining is not at any time considered an exploit since you are targeting the corporation, not the individuals within (technically, even if your attempting to get a single pilot as your target)
one more edit, if you want to know, create a petition and get a gm to decide if they are abusing the mechanic or not
The funny part is one of the corps in MPA was also in that alliance that left the alliance to try to avoid the POS loss that you are talking about
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