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Ummm Toasty
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Posted - 2010.05.07 11:45:00 -
[1]
Hi all,
Been playing eve for a whopping 5 days now and been enjoying every minute. I spend about half my time mining, the other half running missions.
Anyway, i was shocked when i found the thread describing so called 'macro miners' and the fact that there is no system in place to detect them properly.
The thread was banging on about what to do if you suspect a macro miner, but that thread was closed so i couldn't comment.
It concerned me as an honest miner because the proposed player solutions would almost all have pointed towards me (and possible many others) as being one of these macro miners, because, like a macro miner I leave my computer to mine away for about 20 minutes at a time whilst i have jobs to do in RL, this is fine for my current ship that only has one mining laser II on it.
Its not super time efficient, but it is essentially free ISK for a new player with a crap ship like me who can't mine an asteroid from full to empty in any less than 15 to 20 minutes and who has a real hectic life to consider.
There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion, i'm not going to sit and watch the beam go on and off for that length of time whilst jobs build up in RL, and i have no corp to chat to yet to fill the time... but i heard people have been shooting these miners if they don't respond to convo's as a test for a macro miner... i'm obviously AFK too!
So really i want to urge people to think hard about who is cheating and who is simply returning to the computer like myself once every 20 minutes or so and leaving it to do the rest on its own between.
People have suggested indicators like:
- look out for a miner who returns to the same spot (me)
- look out for a miner who doesnt respond to convos for 20 minutes (me)
- look out for a miner who is mining veldspar instead of the dense equivalent (me) - because dense is almost always being heavily mined and never lasts the full 20 minutes.
- look out for miners who are not jetcanning (me)
Thanks 
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.05.07 12:26:00 -
[2]
For gods sake i hope you are no troll...
Ok iŠll bite.
No macroer will ever mine in a crappy cruiser or less. Macros use hulks in highsec ALWAYS (beside of iceminng). Macros donŠt use jetcans (no need in a hulk).
So far for that. Now what you mean is running into funny ppl who try to convo you, looking if your afk. Thats common use, looking for an easy pray for a suicide gank. This happens to HULKS or RETRIEVERS.
If someone, and i doubt, will suicide you in your cruiser or less itŠs only for the lulz (and for a financial loss for the ganker).
If you want to stick to that afk thing:
Go train for a Hulk.
Search for a highsec ice belt.
Icemine for 25-35 mins and come back to your pc for full profit.
Be aware that highsec ice systems are VERY rare, and are ganking MAGNETS as ice mining is very easy to afk.
Hope this helps.
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Ummm Toasty
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ummm Toasty on 07/05/2010 13:14:31
 Originally by: My Postman
For gods sake i hope you are no troll...
Ok iŠll bite.
No macroer will ever mine in a crappy cruiser or less. Macros use hulks in highsec ALWAYS (beside of iceminng). Macros donŠt use jetcans (no need in a hulk).
So far for that. Now what you mean is running into funny ppl who try to convo you, looking if your afk. Thats common use, looking for an easy pray for a suicide gank. This happens to HULKS or RETRIEVERS.
If someone, and i doubt, will suicide you in your cruiser or less itŠs only for the lulz (and for a financial loss for the ganker).
If you want to stick to that afk thing:
Go train for a Hulk.
Search for a highsec ice belt.
Icemine for 25-35 mins and come back to your pc for full profit.
Be aware that highsec ice systems are VERY rare, and are ganking MAGNETS as ice mining is very easy to afk.
Hope this helps.
I have actually only ran into one person trying to convo me during my AFK mining. I was referring to another thread where a number of players suggested convo as a way of detecting a macro miner. It simply isn't reliable for this reason. That's what i am trying to convey.
Thanks for the heads up on a mining tactic, perhaps when my mining gets quicker AFK mining may be more annoying with the return time, but for now, filling up my Iteron on Veld and other high sec ores is enough to get me set up.
What's a troll by the way?
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Vins Chicago
Gallente
Regent Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:22:00 -
[4]
Whatever base trolling score I later decide to give the OP, they'll definitely get a bonus +1 for this: Originally by: Ummm Toasty
What's a troll by the way?
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Ummm Toasty
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Posted - 2010.05.07 14:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vins Chicago
Whatever base trolling score I later decide to give the OP, they'll definitely get a bonus +1 for this: Originally by: Ummm Toasty
What's a troll by the way?
I really don't understand what a troll is, nor what you're talking about, but that reply is pretty off topic, and im sure there is probably a slang word i am unaware of for that as well.
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Naliena Arlath
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Posted - 2010.05.07 15:17:00 -
[6]
Honestly, people who are out to suicide gank macro miners don't really care if you are an honest miner or not. What they care about is mass destruction under the guise of doing a community service by killing macro miners.
If you think it's anything more than that, then you give the EVE community far too much credit.
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Dust Rocket
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Posted - 2010.05.07 15:23:00 -
[7]
Just make friends with peeps who live in same sys as you. And move away from main hubs, find backwater system and mine there. Tho from 0,8 and down you find NPC ships who like to shoot you.
If u make friends they can say no he is not mackro he speaks too us if someone bothers to ask in local.
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Ummm Toasty
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Posted - 2010.05.07 17:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ummm Toasty on 07/05/2010 17:40:52
Originally by: Naliena Arlath
Honestly, people who are out to suicide gank macro miners don't really care if you are an honest miner or not. What they care about is mass destruction under the guise of doing a community service by killing macro miners.
If you think it's anything more than that, then you give the EVE community far too much credit.
Yeah i guess i was hoping those who attempt such a so called community service would read this and consider more accurate methods of determining who's actually doing it. TBH, im all for blowing them into peices if they cheat, but i was surprised how easily a genuine miner could be mistaken for one of these people!
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Dr Mannevond
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Posted - 2010.05.07 19:31:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dr Mannevond on 07/05/2010 19:33:35
A forum troll is basically a moron. Someone who posts stupid/inflammatory comments just to **** people off and get a flamewar going. The forum version of griefers.
Edit : See how easy that was? Just answering a question instead of accusing people of being trolls?
</Sarcasm>
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.08 11:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Naliena Arlath
What they care about is mass destruction under the guise of doing a community service by killing macro miners.
It's called "rationalization". It's where you try to justify your actions by inventing logic to support your actions after you've decided to take those actions.
For example, someone might be feeling a little guilty about blowing up someone else's expensive mining ship, so he rationalises it by inventing reasons for why "he was just a macrominer anyway."
Trying to explain "I'm not a macro miner" to these people is like trying to explain speed limits and seatbelts to the teenagers drag racing their hotted up family cars down the back street at 1am. They're not interested in the seatbelts, they're interested in the roar of the engine and the thrill of being naughty.
Which is perfectly fine to me, since I have friends in the hulk production market.
The circle of life, and all that :)
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC] |
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Potrero
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.08 15:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ummm Toasty
Originally by: Vins Chicago
Whatever base trolling score I later decide to give the OP, they'll definitely get a bonus +1 for this: Originally by: Ummm Toasty
What's a troll by the way?
I really don't understand what a troll is, nor what you're talking about, but that reply is pretty off topic, and im sure there is probably a slang word i am unaware of for that as well.
The slang word for off topic post is "troll."
Anyone who purposefully provokes conflict or derails a thread in the forums is trolling. A post potentially sympathetic to AFK miners might be considered a troll by some people. So, in response, they're trolling you.
You'll see a lot of trolling on Eve forums. Many people consider it another form of PvP.
Welcome to Eve and fly safe.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:05:00 -
[12]
Actually, I generally convo miners as well. If they reply to the convo, and its clear that they are 'actively' mining - and I blow them up.
Way I see it, not much point in ganking a macroer. Better to spend the effort on a target that will fully appreciate the gank.
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Jamie Banks
Gallente
Wasted and Still Mining
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Posted - 2010.05.18 05:35:00 -
[13]
EVE never ceases to amaze me
_____________________________
EVE - Everyone vs. Everyone
Join in-game Channel 'Aussies'
Check my Bio in-game for good deals on Invention Packs |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.18 05:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: My Postman
For gods sake i hope you are no troll...
Ok iŠll bite.
No macroer will ever mine in a crappy cruiser or less. Macros use hulks in highsec ALWAYS (beside of iceminng). Macros donŠt use jetcans (no need in a hulk).
.
Gee, CCP seemed to strongly think otherwise fairly recently.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ummm Toasty
Edited by: Ummm Toasty on 07/05/2010 17:40:52
Originally by: Naliena Arlath
Honestly, people who are out to suicide gank macro miners don't really care if you are an honest miner or not. What they care about is mass destruction under the guise of doing a community service by killing macro miners.
If you think it's anything more than that, then you give the EVE community far too much credit.
Yeah i guess i was hoping those who attempt such a so called community service would read this and consider more accurate methods of determining who's actually doing it. TBH, im all for blowing them into peices if they cheat, but i was surprised how easily a genuine miner could be mistaken for one of these people!
There is some people that honestly try to hunt macrominers (try the macrointel channel, at least some of the guys there are honest), but a large contingent like to call macrominer/macroratter (people hunting NPC [rats] in a belt)/macro missionrunner the targets they chose to find some justification.
Then there is a subset of the PvP community that actively hate every non combat PvP activity and accuse people of using macros simply to bolster their position when arguing in forum.
As suggested mining in less busy systems help to avoid ganks.
Similarly you can try mining in missions: kill all the NPC and if the missions has asteroids you don't deliver it but instead return with your mining ship and mine them.
Finding you in a mission area require an active search with probes so it is less common than random ganking in belts.
Remember that NPC rats spawn in mission area like in the belts of the same system, so always have at least 1 combat drone out (better a full wing of them if you have the skills) to defend you.
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Maaltor
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Posted - 2010.05.18 07:01:00 -
[16]
So when I'm AFK mining in high sec in my cargo-rigged hulk, warping to a bookmark, and ignoring conversations I'm a macro miner?
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Gunnanmon
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.18 11:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Actually, I generally convo miners as well. If they reply to the convo, and its clear that they are 'actively' mining - and I blow them up.
Way I see it, not much point in ganking a macroer. Better to spend the effort on a target that will fully appreciate the gank.
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.18 13:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maaltor
So when I'm AFK mining in high sec in my cargo-rigged hulk, warping to a bookmark, and ignoring conversations I'm a macro miner?
no doubt.get ready to get podded
knowledge is power |
Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.05.18 16:42:00 -
[19]
Frankly, I don't really care if a miner is AFK, surfing the web, doing something else on his main, or running a macro, to my mind it's all the same thing. If you're not activly mining, you're helping to kill the mineral market and taking isk from someone that is. The same can be said for AFK missioning via drones and anything else someone does by macro or autoplay. If you died because you let the game play itself, I won't waste any tears on you.
People like to cry and cry for CCP to do something to save mining as a viable carrer path, but when push comes to shove, the single best way to save mining is to make it challenging enough that you actually have to play the game rather than let it play itself. If mining were hard enough that you actually had to do it, there would be WAY fewer miners, and mineral prices might stabilize at something above the IER.
Since CCP han't been able to do anything to make mining more challenging, if players do it for them, so be it. If Hulkageddon added one simple ROE for next year, I'd propably join in the carnage: target the player & give him 20 seconds to run. If he's not running after 20 seconds, he's not playing the game & fair game.
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Sancene
Gallente
The Ephemeral Star
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:34:00 -
[20]
How much do you guys loose when concord blow you out of the sky? And how fast do you guys kill a hulk? 
Beep beep, im a hulk jeep? Wait what? |
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.05.18 20:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 18/05/2010 20:20:55
Originally by: Sancene
How much do you guys loose when concord blow you out of the sky? And how fast do you guys kill a hulk?
Depending on how the EIR floats from day to day, you can build & fit a BS with T1 guns & weapon upgrades for free after insurance.
I've never pulled a hi-sec gank myself, but a Maelstrom with T1 1400s & gyros, good skills & implants, and stock ammo has a 7800 volley. A pair of those will one shot most hulks.
If they load one round of navy ammo in each gun (costs about 1k isk a round), it ups the volley to 8900. 3 of those will one shot almost any hulk, but if they scout the field & scan your fitting 1st, they know what it's gonna take to do the job.
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Sancene
Gallente
The Ephemeral Star
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Posted - 2010.05.18 20:37:00 -
[22]
But why kill miners? We miners bring in minerals you guys use for building stuff. Rockets, ammo, ships and so on. Its like taking a tank and blowing up some poor farmer in a field. its not very nice, and you`re not helping. 
"Whats one miner?" maybe the poor guy who lost his hulk decided to give up mining. Thats one less miner, and maybe he too started hunting miners because he wanted to make others feel the pain he felt. Then it snowballs, AND NO MINERS ARE LEFT IN EVE! Now see what you did! 
Beep beep, im a hulk jeep? Wait what? |
Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.05.18 20:46:00 -
[23]
I can't beleive I'm gonna take bite on this toll bait, but it's just too easy...
If there wern't so many miners, minerals would cost more, and the gank wouldn't be free.
Kind of self correcting isn't it?
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Sancene
Gallente
The Ephemeral Star
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:26:00 -
[24]
I agree, but riddle me this: If there were NO miners in eve due to ganking, there would be no more ganking of miners (Since there are none) and no more minerals and no more stuff being built. SO lesson here is dont gank us miners.
Or too many miners....
My ship is called "Im not a macro miner" btw, so if you see that you know its me.
and leave me the hell alone you mean ganking bullies! 
Beep beep, im a hulk jeep? Wait what? |
Romulus Activus
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.19 02:36:00 -
[25]
There is one simple truth. Gankers do not care wether you are a macro miner or not. They will kill you because it is easy. Unfortunatly miners are hated and most people will go out of thier way to ruin your day if you give them the chance. Just assume that everyone is out to kill you.
When you are born everyone around you is smiling and you are crying. Live your life so that when you die everyone is crying and you are smiling. |
Kharylien
Gallente
Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2010.05.19 04:55:00 -
[26]
Personally, I've beaten the gankers' system on MY mining alt.
It works like this:
I have ADHD, for real. I take medication for it that helps me focus, but I'm only medicated about 8-10 hours a day - and that, of course, is the Getting Stuff Done time, not Relax With Games time.
I like to play EVE, but when I'm outside meds time... I'm kind of easily distracted.
So the following process tends to happen:
1) Warp to asteroid belt.
2) Get distracted before ship arrives, forget to set out drones to protect from rat spawns, because I've wandered off to do something else.
3) Return to find pod floating amid Retriever wreckage, with a couple of NPC pirate frigates hanging around.
4) Technically speaking, fail to profit.
Why does this meaning my victory against the gankers?
Because they never get NEAR ganking my ship. BOOYAH.
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Dani WH
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Posted - 2010.06.15 20:25:00 -
[27]
Don't want to be considered a macrominer, then don't act like one...
If you are a longlife NPC member, flying a Hulk for long periods of time, and conversations are automatically rejected, you will be flagged as an obvious macrominer.
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Enthral
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Posted - 2010.06.16 03:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dani WH
Don't want to be considered a macrominer, then don't act like one...
If you are a longlife NPC member, flying a Hulk for long periods of time, and conversations are automatically rejected, you will be flagged as an obvious macrominer.
Except that is still no guarantee that the person is a macrominer. Other than the NPC part, I tend to automatically reject conversations, and when I am mining, I mine for long periods of time in a Hulk.
Why can't you folks just call it what it is? You like blowing up Hulks. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't need to justify blowing up Hulks, any more so than a miner has to justify mining.
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RM Odrade
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.06.16 08:32:00 -
[29]
Why convo a potential macro miner? That might or might not work and they might or might not just ignore you. Neut them isntead thus shutting down their mining operations. When that happens they'll be sending you a convo request or spouting off in local post haste. Well, okay my method only works in 0.0 systems [otherwise CONCORD does their annoying thing] but it is fun to do. Especially to macro-ratters. Yes, they're out there too. It's so much fun neuting a macro-ratter then watching the rats kill them and they've no clue what happened when they finally return to their computer. So, fit a couple neuts/vampires and avoid the whole convo request thing completely. If your locking them doesn't make them say something, enjoy the fireworks when they die to the NPCs.
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CeneUJiti
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Posted - 2010.06.16 09:02:00 -
[30]
TL DR version of many above posts:
Miners and mission runners are ruining the game and should be shot on site and molested at every opportunity.
All real men will earn their money trough PVP, sorry meant to say PLEX resell, sorry meant to say RMT.
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