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purchase acelerated skill training time ?

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jeelani juggs	Posted - 2010.05.07 17:46:00 - [1] is there any merit in introducing being able to buy blocks of accelerated skill trainig time with isk . so new players could accelerate their training but set to a maximum level of say 10 mill skill points . for me returning to eve and restarting from scratch( or almost nearly began retraining an old alt that had no sp) has been a real blast im soo enjoying being back but i know theres soo much i cant yet do. this way you could at least train a more viable noob char and get much more more quickly from the game . i really enjoyed the acelerated training time to the 1.6 mill cap but id sure like to be able to purchase more . does this sound reasonable/ viable ?
DeftCrow Redriver	Posted - 2010.05.07 17:54:00 - [2] Or you can just buy a fully trained character form the Character Bazzar.
jeelani juggs	Posted - 2010.05.07 18:00:00 - [3] well being new i dont have the bilions of isk most of them seem to cost . and id like to build the char the way id like it to be . another idea might be to just extend the acelerated training time but make it only apply to the learning skills untill youve got a good base to start from . once all the learning skills are complete the training time for all subsequent skills would be as standard .
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.07 18:23:00 - [4] Nah. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Simeon Tor	Posted - 2010.05.07 18:45:00 - [5] Being able to accelerate training would negate the point of training wouldn't it?
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.05.07 21:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Simeon Tor Being able to accelerate training would negate the point of training wouldn't it? I don't quite understand this point of view that a number of people have. Right now, new players have the right to spend RL money to accelerate their training as much as they wish to on the Char Bazaar. Buy some plexes and in a few minutes with minimal effort you can convert you or your parents money into years of skill. However, a customer of a few months might have to wait three years to get what a new play can buy in three minutes. That sees illogical to me. Not allowing chat sales and not allowing skill purchasing would also be logical. The current system does not make as much sense to me. But then logic and money rarely do I suppose.
Marcus Hague	Posted - 2010.05.07 23:03:00 - [7] Accelerated training exists up to 1.6m sp. Providing a way to purchase accelerated training would not close the SP gap between new and old players. If older players can purchase it too, there would be no change. New players can still be better than old players at many things. Often requires specialization, but my 30m sp pvp character can fly combat ships better than the 90m sp industrial based CEO of my corp. A 5m sp rifter pilot could beat him in a frig. Allowing characters to be sold via the character bazaar provides a legitimate way for characters to be traded and protects CCP's customers. This prevents real money trading (character for cash instead of isk) and protects people's financial information from those who would use it illegally.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2010.05.07 23:04:00 - [8] Originally by: ChrisIsherwood I don't quite understand this point of view that a number of people have. Right now, new players have the right to spend RL money to accelerate their training as much as they wish to on the Char Bazaar. Buy some plexes and in a few minutes with minimal effort you can convert you or your parents money into years of skill. Assume for the moment that it takes one year of real time to accumulate 20 million skill points (that's close, but it varies depending on attributes, implants, and exactly what you train). A new player can convert real life money into ISK via game-time cards and PLEXes, then spend a chunk of it on a 40 million skill point character. Yes, that's true; a brand new player can effectively instantly have a 40 million SP character. However, someone spent 2 years training that character. Someone kept an account active for 2 years (remember, only one character per account trains at a time) logging on to train skills (skill queue didn't exist until recently either, neither did neural remapping). Buying an established character only allows one player to bypass the training time. Buying accelerated training would allow all players to bypass the training time. There's a guy who just topped the 150 million skill point mark; he's basically been active since the beginning. If accelerated training were allowed, anyone with enough money could instantly match or exceed that mark. Also, and more importantly, there would no longer be a need to prioritize skill training. Do I spend the time training this skill from 4 to 5? Or do I get more benefit training these other 4 skills from nothing to 4 in the same amount of time? Who would give a rats ass if they could just dump money and get it all instantly? ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Marcus Hague	Posted - 2010.05.07 23:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Gavin DeVries Also, and more importantly, there would no longer be a need to prioritize skill training. Do I spend the time training this skill from 4 to 5? Or do I get more benefit training these other 4 skills from nothing to 4 in the same amount of time? Who would give a rats ass if they could just dump money and get it all instantly? Couldn't have said it better. Might as well turn on cheat codes at that point.
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.05.08 07:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Gavin DeVries Also, and more importantly, there would no longer be a need to prioritize skill training. Do I spend the time training this skill from 4 to 5? Or do I get more benefit training these other 4 skills from nothing to 4 in the same amount of time? Who would give a rats ass if they could just dump money and get it all instantly? There currently is no need to prioritize skill training; you can just buy what you want on the character bazaar. You can "dump money and get it all instantly". Actually, the only people who can't do that are the subset of the 350,000 existing customers. You could make it so that existing customers could buy a character, but had an option of biomassing the character and adding a subset of the skills to their pilot. That option does not increase the skill points in the game. If you look at the size, scope, and sophistication involved in Unholy Rage, do you really think a human being actually logs in to change the skills for all the pilots in CB? Managing a skill queue sure seems easier than warping around doing missions. In fact, once the mcr cheater has their miner/mission runner, I assume they do not let their skill training time go to waste, but monetize it with characters for the CB. Many/most people agree with you. It just strikes me as illogical that if I have two million SP I can't do anything but a friend or enemy can do buy one with 40m sp. Neither or both would be fine. Just providing the option to non-customers is puzzling. I can see how people in games, including that One, would not like it because there you can not use RL money to buy in game advantage. EVE is different; you can spend money to effortlessly and skilllessly buy in game characters and equipment. Yet this is seen as very different. Someone spent $100,000 for ISK for their alliance but this is an emotional issue? I am not saying you are wrong and I understand I am in the minority and this CCP management will never do it. still, puzzling. Originally by: Marcus Hague Might as well turn on cheat codes at that point. I believe the exploits, PL et al, have their own threadnaught.

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.08 10:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Simeon Tor Being able to accelerate training would negate the point of training wouldn't it? Not when one is a fast learner. --
jeelani juggs	Posted - 2010.05.08 11:08:00 - [12] Edited by: jeelani juggs on 08/05/2010 11:10:40 thought id made it clear that a. the skill time could only be purchased with in game currency so in order to earn it you play the game getting the feel and learning some of the many intrcate mechanics . b. it would only enable you to train to say a max skill point level of hmm say 5 million sp . if properly trained you might at least hold your own with some of the longer term players if you chose to pvp . gives younger podlings a sniff of a chance. im not looking for cheat button or game breaking changes . as it stands i didnt max the learning skills and chose to train stuff that let me use more stuff in game . skill system has changed abit since i was last in eve . and not everyone is a hot shot spacer some of us older dudes are learning impared
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2010.05.08 15:50:00 - [13] Originally by: ChrisIsherwood There currently is no need to prioritize skill training; you can just buy what you want on the character bazaar. You can "dump money and get it all instantly". Ah, but you're not getting it all instantly. That's a different character. Your current character may have skills the new one lacks, and the new one has skills the current one lacks. It's totally different than adding skill points to an existing character. Originally by: ChrisIsherwood If you look at the size, scope, and sophistication involved in Unholy Rage, do you really think a human being actually logs in to change the skills for all the pilots in CB? Managing a skill queue sure seems easier than warping around doing missions. In fact, once the mcr cheater has their miner/mission runner, I assume they do not let their skill training time go to waste, but monetize it with characters for the CB. While I'm sure someone can write a macro that could handle the logging in and training of skills, the API doesn't allow it to be modified without logging in. I'm also not certain just how much monetizing it really is. Last time I checked, PLEXes were worth about 275 million ISK for 30 days of play time. I think they'd be able to make more money by using the macro character(s) to mine/mission and convert the ISK that way. Originally by: ChrisIsherwood Many/most people agree with you. It just strikes me as illogical that if I have two million SP I can't do anything but a friend or enemy can do buy one with 40m sp. Neither or both would be fine. Just providing the option to non-customers is puzzling. I can see how people in games, including that One, would not like it because there you can not use RL money to buy in game advantage. EVE is different; you can spend money to effortlessly and skilllessly buy in game characters and equipment. Yet this is seen as very different. Someone spent $100,000 for ISK for their alliance but this is an emotional issue? I am not saying you are wrong and I understand I am in the minority and this CCP management will never do it. still, puzzling. Nothing stops you, as a 2 million skillpoint relative newbie, from buying a 20-40 million skillpoint character yourself. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.08 15:58:00 - [14] nope bad idea _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.09 08:22:00 - [15] How about no. _______________________ We come for our people!
Plocsk	Posted - 2010.05.09 10:33:00 - [16] Buying a character: - you inherit their ****ty/blank killboard stats - you lose your own killboard stats - they probably have some stupid name - they are never exactly what you need It's not exactly such an amazing idea, now, is it?
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.05.09 20:17:00 - [17] Originally by: jeelani juggs is there any merit in introducing being able to buy blocks of accelerated skill trainig time with isk . so new players could accelerate their training but set to a maximum level of say 10 mill skill points . for me returning to eve and restarting from scratch( or almost nearly began retraining an old alt that had no sp) has been a real blast im soo enjoying being back but i know theres soo much i cant yet do. this way you could at least train a more viable noob char and get much more more quickly from the game . i really enjoyed the acelerated training time to the 1.6 mill cap but id sure like to be able to purchase more . does this sound reasonable/ viable ? No, it does not sound reasonable at all. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Penny Pancakes	Posted - 2010.05.10 14:17:00 - [18] Originally by: jeelani juggs a. the skill time could only be purchased with in game currency so in order to earn it you play the game getting the feel and learning some of the many intrcate mechanics . uh.... why don't you just get your learning skills up and buy implants? will boost your training speed. :)
JTDaBeast	Posted - 2010.05.10 14:22:00 - [19] EVE is still an RPG. And like RPG's from the beginning of time, no self-respecting player ever got bragging rights by glitching their way into high stats and skills. Nothing like good old fashioned time/training to get your character where they need to be. Only way to make it a viable option would be to charge for the subscription time it takes for the skills point boost. So if you want an additional say 20 million SP boost, how about say $120 bucks (on top of monthly subscription charges). And even with that. . . .nothing to brag about.
Rhivre Caldari TarNec	Posted - 2010.05.11 16:45:00 - [20] I usually just specialise my chars, so 7m SP or so for my industrialist, just finished her T2 hulk, got her production where I need it, and getting datacores coming in steadily. My ewar pilot is at 10m or so, but the last million went into trade as I sidetracked her. Yes, I wont have the broad range of ships available to the older players, but, the good thing about EvE is you dont need 50m/80m/100m to be good at things initially

GavinCapacitor	Posted - 2010.05.11 18:50:00 - [21] This thread is bad and you should feel bad. P.S. You can't spell and you are a terrible troll.
Astrador	Posted - 2010.05.13 14:44:00 - [22] Maybe give Skillpoints by farming NPC-Rats... Oh wait No
Cate Fenring Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.13 19:06:00 - [23] Edited by: Cate Fenring on 13/05/2010 19:14:50 Edited by: Cate Fenring on 13/05/2010 19:09:11 Edited by: Cate Fenring on 13/05/2010 19:06:33 The OP is a brave one - I never met a community as conservative as EVE's ;-) I'm not sure I agree with the OP's idea but I think there IS a need to do something about the skilltraining as it is now in EVE. I don't know if you people realize it (and if you do - if you care at all) but all this is very discouraging for new players. I have no idea if CCP wants EVE to get more customers but the skilltraining thing is definitely a bottleneck. Better and prolonged tutorials and such also play a role but that's another story. Next to the fact that there's more and more and more skills each expansion, the gap between new and old players becomes bigger and bigger. And compared to other games there's absolutely NO way to catch up in any way because skilltraining speed is fixed/capped. Add to that 2 months for the learning skills thing which basically interferes with your starter months. Example: one of my new characters has her learning skills up quite high and if I tell my fellow rookies that the skill they try to train cost me 7 days instead of 10 they're not happy because they want to move on to new modules and ships but they know they should take a few weeks off to get their learning speed up a bit. Imo learning skills have absolutely nothing to add - except that they are even more demanding on a new player's patience. As if there arent't already enough skills with a multplier of 3 and up!! Of course I realize that there's no real need to "catch up" but I think that progression could and should definitely be improved and sped up one way or other. 30 years to learn it all is way over the top. The consequence is that everything goes very very slow now and the more skills we get every expansion, the longer it takes to have the basic abilities. If skilltraining would go 2 times as fast and it would still take 15 years to train it all and no-one would lose his/her advantage - skill most of you are against. Why? And I'd also suggest that CCP does away with the learning skills - in exchange for no 1.6 m sped up training for example. It's really extremely discouraging! Originally by: Plocsk Buying a character: - you inherit their **ty/blank killboard stats - you lose your own killboard stats - they probably have some stupid name - they are never exactly what you need It's not exactly such an amazing idea, now, is it? 1. Still people do it, a lot! Isn't it? 2. We're basically talking about new players here, so "losing your killboard" things and such are totally irrelevant. 3. "Exactly what you need". If you or CCP would sell a "blank" character with learning skills to V, Engineering, Electronics, Capacitor skills to V, basic Mechanic/Hull to V and Navigation skills to V, Cybernetics V, Social V - that's already worth many months of gametime. Everyone uses (most of) those generic skills and it¦s a great situation to start off from for any rookie. From that point on you could train it towards what you'd really want it to be. I think a lot of new players wouldn't object to buying this for 4 months worth of subscription. Originally by:** JTDaBeast EVE is still an RPG. And like RPG's from the beginning of time, no self-respecting player ever got bragging rights by glitching their way into high stats and skills. Nothing like good old fashioned time/training to get your character where they need to be. I do agree but it's 100% contradicting the "sell characters for ISK" thing. I never understood that; all other mmorpg games that I know of forbid it but in EVE you can buy your hihghly skilled character with RL currency?! Next to that EVE doesn't exactly do a lot to get attached to your character, I hope the Incarna thing will improve a bit upon that - now you're basically your ship, not your avatar. edit: typos
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.13 21:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Gavin DeVries Assume for the moment that it takes one year of real time to accumulate 20 million skill points (that's close, but it varies depending on attributes, implants, and exactly what you train). A new player can convert real life money into ISK via game-time cards and PLEXes, then spend a chunk of it on a 40 million skill point character. Yes, that's true; a brand new player can effectively instantly have a 40 million SP character. However, someone spent 2 years training that character. Someone kept an account active for 2 years (remember, only one character per account trains at a time) logging on to train skills (skill queue didn't exist until recently either, neither did neural remapping). Buying an established character only allows one player to bypass the training time. Buying accelerated training would allow all players to bypass the training time. There's a guy who just topped the 150 million skill point mark; he's basically been active since the beginning. If accelerated training were allowed, anyone with enough money could instantly match or exceed that mark. Also, and more importantly, there would no longer be a need to prioritize skill training. Do I spend the time training this skill from 4 to 5? Or do I get more benefit training these other 4 skills from nothing to 4 in the same amount of time? Who would give a rats ass if they could just dump money and get it all instantly? Quoted for truth and insight. Buying accelerated learning time essentially kills EVE, overnight. So, don't. --
digitalwanderer Gallente DF0 incorporated	Posted - 2010.05.13 22:47:00 - [25] Seriously,what is it with people and wanting to take shortcuts to advance faster in the game??? You should have seen how hard the game was in the first year,when money was made a lot more slowly,and skills trained a lot more slowly as well....Most would have given up(and did). Now it's a lot easier and still they want more...Sheeesh.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.05.14 09:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Cate Fenring all this is very discouraging for new players there's absolutely NO way to catch up If the skill system discourages people who 'play' just to participate in the Skills Race, then good. Not because it keeps people out of the game (who wants that?); rather because it shows that it is working as intended. It's isn't meant to be a grind that defines the game, it's meant to be a regulator for those who actually play the game. And the learning skills are fine. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.05.14 13:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Penny Pancakes Originally by: jeelani juggs a. the skill time could only be purchased with in game currency so in order to earn it you play the game getting the feel and learning some of the many intrcate mechanics . uh.... why don't you just get your learning skills up and buy implants? will boost your training speed. :) Quoted for truth. *********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.05.14 13:54:00 - [28] I would like to counter this proposal by advocating the removal of all the learning skills. It aggrieves me that i 'have to' learn all the basic learning skills to 5 and the advanced skills to 4 just to 'keep up with the joneses' so to speak.
Metalcali	Posted - 2010.05.14 14:55:00 - [29] After buying the advanced learning skill books and training them to 5, my skill training has accelerated to a faster speed then it was before. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked. OP does not contain an idea.
Syn Callibri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.14 19:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 14/05/2010 19:05:33 Edited by: Syn Callibri on 14/05/2010 19:03:45 I/M/H/O...one of the things that has changed "the spirit" of Eve is the killboards. I played another MMO that was PVE/PVP/Econ/etc... The dev team introduced "killboards" and they became one of (if not) the major focuses of the game from then on to a lot of players. Consequently, how "good" you were at blowing everyone you could find up, became more important than the actual game itself...and I see EvE going down that same path. Personally I dont mind the learning skills, I can use them or not my choice...my game time. EvE is supposed to be a MMORPG, instead of the "killboards" CCP should have introduced "EvE situation Boards" where Factions, Corps, Wardecs,overall battle stats (not individual) etc...are listed. There is no SKILLSRACE in EvE...its a KILLSRACE, thats the problem.



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