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Thaddeus Morheim
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:13:00 -
[1]
Hey I was wondering how I could find out/calculate the time it would take until it starts paying off from training the Perception and Willpower advanced learning skills to 5, but not the other 3.
Any help?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:47:00 -
[2]
/slap read the stickies next time first.
Link #2 in the "General" section of the top sticky : Linkage
"Skill Training Times & Attributes Calculations
Ever wondered how long training a skill will take or what difference adding another level of a learning skill will make - here's where to find out"
 Quote:
[...]The Payoff: How high should you train the Learnng skills?
Constantly debated is how worthwhile it is to train any of the 11 learning skills (especially the so-called Advanced learning skills) up to level 5. To summarize a few different threads of mine, the average ôpayoffö times for training the various learning skills are as follows:
- The Learning skill from level 4 to level 5: 243-406 Days (varies a lot player to player)
- The five Basic learning skills from level 4 to level 5 (assuming Learning 5): 443 Days 11 Hours 41 Munutes & 12 seconds
- The five Advanced learning skills from level 4 to level 5 (assuming Learning 5): 3 Years 235 Days 11 Hours 3 Minutes & 38 Seconds
These ôpayoffö times are defined as the total skill points invested divided by the average improvement in training speed.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Thaddeus Morheim
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Posted - 2010.05.12 16:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Thaddeus Morheim on 12/05/2010 16:51:20
Is that 3Y 235D 11H 3M 38S for each skill or for all 5 of them combined?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/05/2010 17:07:50
Combined.
Roughly 18 months for just one pair, assuming you only train skills corresponding to that pair for the whole time span.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:47:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 12/05/2010 17:56:50
My simplistic calculations seem in the same ballpark as Tripoli's numbers.
1 attribute point in a primary gives you 66 SP/hour increase. There are 632,235 SP in level 5 so:
632,235 SP / 66 SP per hour = 9579 hours / 24 = 399.13 days / (365 + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400) = 1.09 years
Two skills boosts you to 99 SP/hour:
2 * (632,235 SP) / 99 SP per hour = 12,772 hours / 24 = 532 days / (365 + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400) = 1.46 years
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.12 21:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Thaddeus Morheim
Hey I was wondering how I could find out/calculate the time it would take until it starts paying off from training the Perception and Willpower advanced learning skills to 5, but not the other 3.
Any help?
The practical answer is simply: make an EVEMON (multi-) yearplan based on Perceptopn + Willpower; and, at some point during adding to the plan, EVEMON will notify you that training one or more of the Advanced Learning Skills to lv 5 first pays off.
Also, it's often overlooked that the Advanced Learning Skills take 'themselves' for attributes, as it were. While the regular learning skills take a combination of Memory + Intelligence, the Advanced Learning Skills, however, take their own primary. So, 'Clarity', for instance, to add 1 additional point to your Perception attribute per skill level, itself takes Perception + Willpower. Like 'Focus', to add 1 additional point to your Willpower attribute per skill level, takes Willpower + Charisma. So, this means, IMHO, that training the Advanced Learning Skills to lv 5 is really only best done AFTER the remap towards those attributes. So, only after the remap towards Perception + Willpower will you train 'Clarity' and 'Focus' to lv 5 first.
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Lunewrath
Amarr
Exiled Eden
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Posted - 2010.05.13 00:49:00 -
[7]
I got my alt on the learning plan in the sticky where you learn all learning skills to V, but since he is mainly going to be a trader I am having serious doubts about training the advanced ones to V, if I just get them to IV it will seriously reduce my 120ish day plan and I can start learning trade skills faster >.< But there's this nasty OCD voice in my head that's telling me to get all +5 implants and max learning skills. BAH!
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.05.13 03:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 13/05/2010 03:55:38
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 12/05/2010 17:56:50
My simplistic calculations seem in the same ballpark as Tripoli's numbers.
1 attribute point in a primary gives you 66 SP/hour increase. There are 632,235 SP in level 5 so:
632,235 SP / 66 SP per hour = 9579 hours / 24 = 399.13 days / (365 + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400) = 1.09 years
Two skills boosts you to 99 SP/hour:
2 * (632,235 SP) / 99 SP per hour = 12,772 hours / 24 = 532 days / (365 + 1/4 - 1/100 + 1/400) = 1.46 years
It seems to me that the payback depends slightly on other things.
E.g. the two extremes are, assuming you want to train something with the same attributes as the L5 adv learning skill:
a) if you have learning 5, 15/9 map both +5 implants, 10 skill learning in secondary skill, then raising your primary by 1 would increase your sp/min from 45.1 to 46.2 with payback of 408.87d
b) if you have learning 5, 5/5 map no implants, 0 skill learning in secondary skill then raising your primary by 1 would increase your sp/min from 18.15 to 19.25 with payback of 423.33d.
In a) it is a 2.44% increase in your SP/min versus a 6.0% with b, but the payback is still quicker since it takes less time to get it .
P.S., I assume OP referred to mathematically breaking even. There is some qualitative benefit to never having to ask yourself again if I should have trained this to 5. And some people find non-5 skills an annoying indictment of their imperfection. YMMV
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Goa Vibe
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Goa Vibe on 15/05/2010 01:01:10
Originally by: Ranka Mei
IMHO, that training the Advanced Learning Skills to lv 5 is really only best done AFTER the remap towards those attributes. So, only after the remap towards Perception + Willpower will you train 'Clarity' and 'Focus' to lv 5 first.
glad to see someone else saying that. my char is int/mem and training in int/mem skills avoiding per/wil skills, now so i have already got eid mem and logic to V. soon after my perc/will remap (back to more t1 & t2 ships + beams) i will get clarity and focus to V and be done with it finally.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:21:00 -
[10]
It's really easier to calculate it yourself than to ask on the forums.
Remember that training time is inversely related to the sum of the attributes associated with the skill (well, primary + secondary/2), so:
new training time/original training time = (primary + secondary/2)/(primary + secondary/2 + i), where i is 1 if the attribute you're increasing is primary and 1/2 if it's secondary.
So say you have 20 int and 20 perception (a fairly balanced build with some learning trained to level 4): training that extra point gives you a relative training time of 30/31 for int/per skills, and 30/30.5 for per/int skills. So you're saving 1/31 or 1/30.5 training time by taking that skill to level 5.
Total time saved is (relative time saved)* (training time), so to break even you want that to equal time spent on raising the skill to 4-5.
1/31*t = (time spent raising skill 1 point)
so your break-even time is 31*(time spent raising the learning skill one point)
Or, to back it up a couple variables, t = (New Primary + Secondary/2)*(the training time for that point)
So for our example, if Logic 5 takes you 1 week to train, you'd break even in 31 weeks if you train only int primary/per secondary skills.
The (new total attribute)*(training increase time) formula is a good one to remember when considering if something is 'worth it'.
//Note, for increases of more than one point you have to further multiply, and it gets complicated since the first increase often speeds the second.
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