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Ostingele IV colony wiped out?

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Saxon Hawke Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.17 19:37:00 - [1] I have just received a report that the entire population of the Ostingele IV colony, some 2 million colonists, have been abducted in a Sansha raid. Does anyone have additional information on this attack? As one of Intaki's oldest colonies, the people of Ostingele IV share much with us in terms of history and heritage. The loss of an entire population of people is staggering. The Ostingele System has long been a part of the Intaki Liberation Front's patrols and part of what we recognize as Intaki Space. The system is frequently overrun by pirates and their presence has been a constant source of consternation. Those small failures pale in comparison to this tragedy, however. If the reports are true and all souls are lost, I extend my condolences and apologies to families of the colonists. We have failed you and those we have sworn to protect. There is already talk that we should abandon the colonies in favor of defending the homeworld. I will not condone this plan and leave millions of innocent people unprotected. I am a patient man and not one prone to rash action, but as Suresha of the ILF and President of the Intaki Prosperity Initiative, I pledge all of our available resources to the defeat of Nation wherever its forces strike. Effectively immediately, the ongoing Intaki Relief Effort is changing its focus to planetary defense for other Placid Region colonies. We have begun collecting small arms and planetary vehicles and are securing a force of marines to be distributed and deployed throughout the Placid Region.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.05.17 20:35:00 - [2] I have heard the same reports you speak of..If it is true then it is truly a sad day to remember. However, thanks to the Synepublic channel we were able to repel a Sansha attack on Jel with minimal losses of civilians. Again True Slave Ation was removed from the battlefield with relative ease, together with True Slave "32:, while another True Slave in a supercap apparently got away. "Only" 75.00 civilians were abducted by Sansha forces before being removed from the fabric of space. One day we will find the originating system of these attacks, and set free our missing brothers and sisters. Be it by death or through reversing the enslavement due to advances in the technological field of Sansha slave implants. One day Kuvakei, one day. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Julianus Soter Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.17 20:54:00 - [3] I was leading Rote Kapelle forces in the system at the time. At roughly 1400 hours, three Nation Chimeras entered system via wormhole. we engaged Nation forces and the three Chimeras were destroyed, mostly by two friendly Nyxes on the field. However, 50 dropship squadrons had abducted the entire population of the planet by the time of the final chimera destruction. Situation was extremely chaotic, and we had to engage Bi-PO forces which appeared to be supporting the Nation. We destroyed one of them, but couldn't do much more good, as there were roughly 10 various capital ships and around fifty various sub capitals on the field at any given time, all belonging to various affiliations. My deepest condolences for those lost today in the fight for human freedom and liberty. We shall persevere, however, and our vengeance shall light ablaze Nation itself.
Kaleigh Doyle Murder Dolls	Posted - 2010.05.17 21:19:00 - [4] It's about time. You can't keep your blinders up forever and expect to emerge unscathed.
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift New Eden Research	Posted - 2010.05.17 21:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Julianus Soter However, 50 dropship squadrons had abducted the entire population of the planet by the time of the final chimera destruction. What was the estimated population of the planet prior to this? How many people fit into an average dropship? And how fast did it occur? The claims seem incredible, in the strictest sense of that word.
Jandice Ymladris Caldari Planet Patrol	Posted - 2010.05.18 04:47:00 - [6] While I have no info about the fate of the Ostingele Colony. I can point to the fact there have been previous colonies destroyed. Umokka 2 (50K civilians) and Ation 1 (200K civilians) have been destroyed by Sansha before in multiplanet raids.. Total tolls were: Umokka: 250K civilians and Ation : 750K civilians. -------------- Cleaning up wrecks others leave behind! Got to keep space clean!
Gen Kumon Caldari Tedan Tippedai	Posted - 2010.05.18 05:46:00 - [7] Your reports are correct. Two million individuals were liberated in the Ostingale action. A glorious victory for Nation, regardless of...setbacks. Perhaps now you will understand the futility of fighting Nation.
Mammal Tafren Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.18 05:54:00 - [8] I think it is time that all agents involved in this righteous conflict against Sansha's Nation recognise Bi-Polar Bears an an enemy of civilisation and kill their ships on sight.
Iramia Oursta	Posted - 2010.05.18 15:04:00 - [9] You Intaki are so fortunate, while the nation seems to be focusing massive resources on bringing you the eternal benevolence of the nation, my people in the Ammatar Mandate still wither under the Ammarian false faith. Oh how I would love to see Tanoo II be given the ultimate gift.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:27:00 - [10] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 18/05/2010 16:33:48 Not to question anyone's honesty here, but seriously - the entire population of 2 million in an attack lasting less than an hour? Even if you count no time for the landing and takeoff of the dropships (which is obviously unrealistic - then again, these dropships obviously do not function like gravity well traffic as we know it), how do you get 2 million people on 50 ships in an hour? Basic math: that is 40,000 people per ship. If you assume it takes 20 seconds for one person to board (this should be enough for a person to run from the ground to the ship - let's ignore the time to locate, capture, and force them to for now)... This means doors of about 60-70 meters wide on those dropships, to accomodate 220-230 people side-by-side, pouring in continuously, without breaks, for a full hour. Wider doors if you want to do it faster, because, say, it takes times for the ships to land and take off, or because the 2,000,000 are not co-operatively and orderly walking to your raiders from where they were conveniently waiting for it (inside an hour's travel distance). A ship that carries 40,000 like that, and we never see a trace of them in space? Anyone else find something fishy here? -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Not to question anyone's honesty here, but seriously - but the entire population of 2 million in an attack lasting less than an hour? Even if you count no time for the landing and takeoff of the dropships (which is obviously unrealistic), how do you get 2 million people on 50 ships in an hour? Let's not forget people need to be rounded up and brought to the transport ships. Hardly a process that every civilians is looking forward too. Hence this will be a difficult task. Most numbers given are broadcasted by the Sansha themselves, and I would like to see an independent investigation by a reliable party that has answers to the obvious question you state here and the less obvious ones too. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Moira. Vanguard	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:37:00 - [12] Not 50 dropships. 50 dropship squadrons ------------ Luminaire General Seriphyn Inhonores [TAGMA] Federal Defence Union
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:46:00 - [13] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 18/05/2010 16:52:32 Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Not 50 dropships. 50 dropship squadrons I stand corrected, thank you. Still, how many ships in a squadron? You still need to board all those people. Even if you change the number of ships to 100 per squadron (certainly an overestimate), that means you have to get 400 people on each ship in an hour, including landing and take-off, locating them, walking them to the ship, crushing any resistance, etc - several people a minute. The numbers just don't seem to add up. CONCORD has already proven to have been infiltrated to the extent that the initial news we got of the situation was wildly off the mark, with very possibly an agent working purposefully to spread panic by acting bizarrely at the sites. Is it possible that the sources of this intel are compromised too? I do not know of any capsuleer who would have witnessed actually seeing dropships or transports returning to the Sansha ships. You could easily cut of the communications of an entire small colony, especially if you have just landed and caused a major armed disruption. A little help at strategic places in intel and news agencies, and it might be possible to convince the population that all of those people were taken, instead of just some of them, while the rest are left on planetside maybe thinking that it is not just their colony that was stricken but the whole civilization. Everything in the official news and everything capsuleers pass seems in the end based on what the Sansha say, and on communication attempts from orbits. Maybe I am paranoid, but it does occur to me that a closer look by authorities might turn up a surprising number of survivors. EDITed to add: Or, on a less optimistic note, maybe Sansha do not mean "abducted" when they say the people have been taken or liberated or whatever the word is they use. Maybe they mean dead. That would be faster to accomplish, if you do not bother with infrastructure. And certainly harder to tell from abducted, especially in the case of major destruction of buildings. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:55:00 - [14] Quote: Still, how many ships in a squadron? You still need to board all those people. Even if you change the number of ships to 100 per squadron (certainly an overestimate), that means you have to get 400 people on each ship in an hour, including landing and take-off, locating them, walking them to the ship, crushing any resistance, etc - several people a minute. The numbers just don't seem to add up. You're presuming this Sansha fellow is a complete nimrod. We have another example of a mass-scale planetary evacuation to examine - Caldari Prime. There, billions of citizens were relocated in a month. If you want to steal all the people on a planet, you don't do it by simply landing 50 dropships and gathering people individually. You'd send advance agents to the planet, to arrange events where lots of individuals congregate in a single area, ahead of the invasion - that way, when the dropships land, everyone is ready to be packed aboard. The lightning speed with which these abductions occurred indicates that exactly this sort of pre-planning was involved.
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift New Eden Research	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:58:00 - [15] Regardless, that seems a bit optimistic. I'd like to see someone get some data from the surviving straggler individuals that must have been left behind.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu If you want to steal all the people on a planet, you don't do it by simply landing 50 dropships and gathering people individually. You'd send advance agents to the planet, to arrange events where lots of individuals congregate in a single area, ahead of the invasion - that way, when the dropships land, everyone is ready to be packed aboard. The lightning speed with which these abductions occurred indicates that exactly this sort of pre-planning was involved. That would help. But everyone in those events? That said, I am going to send a note to my people not to gather up or attend such gatherings, right about now, and encourage everyone else to spread the word, too. Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Julianus Soter Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:59:00 - [17] Ms. Rhiannon, casualty reports are confirmed by Federation Navy.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 18/05/2010 17:12:31 Originally by: Julianus Soter Ms. Rhiannon, casualty reports are confirmed by Federation Navy. My apologies for how this might come through, but: - what is your source? - what is their source? - see above, is it absolutely impossible this source is not contaminated by Sansha, same as CONCORD is/was? Apologies if this information already is available. Currently, problem is there is too much words, and no one can read them all. Originally by: Casiella Truza Regardless, that seems a bit optimistic. I'd like to see someone get some data from the surviving straggler individuals that must have been left behind. Yes. Currently the dropships seem pretty much invulnerable - completely unavailable to capsuleer targeting, and apparently not shot down by planetary defenses or air forces, either. Attacking the obviously bait/distraction Sansha ships on the sites is inefficient to say the least. More information on the planetary part of this might lead to breakthroughs that would allow us to stop the dropships. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Rolare Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:12:00 - [19] I would assume the Federal Navy would get their information from either a local authority or by utilizing their own resources. Though, one can only assume so much.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:15:00 - [20] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 18/05/2010 17:15:22 Originally by: Rolare I would assume the Federal Navy would get their information from either a local authority or by utilizing their own resources. Though, one can only assume so much. I used to assume CONCORD is certainly secure and even if they might be incompetent, their agents are not outright in hostile control. Did not work out all that stellarly. I am trying to stop assuming, now. Else -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Julianus Soter Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:16:00 - [21] Edited by: Julianus Soter on 18/05/2010 17:16:26 mispost.
Mithril Ryder Genstar Inc	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:20:00 - [22] Julianus Soter, I tire of your hyperbole, disinformation, and outright lies. You will cease your propaganda campaign against BI-PO, or I will see you brought to trial for treason due to your deliberate attempts to turn the federation militia on itself. To all other pilots, fix your ship's HUD so that you no longer shoot at fellow militia, regardless of their sec status during these engagements or you will be considered enemies of the Federation. During this time of crisis, when responding directly to the Nation threat I, and any pilots under my command, will refrain from firing upon persons or entities we would normally engage on sight, including Caldari militia, provided that such person or entity is there to help, not firing on myself, my squad, or any friend or ally of mine. Mithril Ryder, Director and Acting CEO - Genstar
Saxon Hawke Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Not to question anyone's honesty here, but seriously - the entire population of 2 million in an attack lasting less than an hour? I too had my doubts about this and have tried to independently verify these reports. I cannot confirm that everyone is gone from the surface of Ostingele IV, but I can report that there are no communication transmissions coming from the colony. It is ù by all observations from space ù a dead planet. I have heard a theory put forth that Sansha technology allows them to break people down into base genetic material and combine the features they desire from multiple individuals into a new single entity with the undesired material being discarded. I have no clue how this technology works, what form it takes or how quickly it can be used. It might be that these dropships are something more sinister than simple slave vessels and are, in fact, mobile facilities in which large populations can be collected, parsed and spliced with brutal efficiency. I pray this theory is false propaganda spread by Nation supporters. If it isn't may the fates have mercy on us all.
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift New Eden Research	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Mithril Ryder Julianus Soter, During this time of crisis, when responding directly to the Nation threat I, and any pilots under my command, will refrain from firing upon persons or entities we would normally engage on sight, including Caldari militia, provided that such person or entity is there to help, not firing on myself, my squad, or any friend or ally of mine. What if your friends and allies start shooting first? Then you can jump in, not violate the ROE you just spelled out, and we're back where we started.
Saxon Hawke Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: Mithril Ryder Julianus Soter, During this time of crisis, when responding directly to the Nation threat I, and any pilots under my command, will refrain from firing upon persons or entities we would normally engage on sight, including Caldari militia, provided that such person or entity is there to help, not firing on myself, my squad, or any friend or ally of mine. What if your friends and allies start shooting first? Then you can jump in, not violate the ROE you just spelled out, and we're back where we started. I believe there are already enough threads for Bi-Po to cry that their "total war" policy means other people will shoot them too. The point of this thread is to share information about what happened to the two million people who were living on Ostingele IV. Can we stay on topic please?
Celeste Fauconnier Gallente Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.05.19 01:30:00 - [26] I've some thoughts about Ostingele, specifically about our lack of evidence that the abductees resisted capture. While Sansha supporters may say what they like about the victims embracing enlightenment or what have you -- mercies, it's common knowledge that asking three Federation denizens a yes or no question can result in eleven wholly different answers. It seems unfathomable that the entire population of a Federation planet decided unanimously and rapidly to abandon the lives they knew. Unless ... were they perhaps convinced they were going to be rescued from a disaster on the magnitude of Seyllin? I've two questions for your consideration. Answers need not be public. In fact, it may be better all around if answers were not publicized. I'd rather not have Sansha turning up in my laboratory. I just replaced the damn floor. * Have we access to planetary defense/civil safety comm traffic logs from the time immediately prior to the attack? * Have atmospheric, soil and water samples been taken from the attack site? Not that I wish to insinuate that a plague was introduced, mercies no. I'm more curious if some means of advance or post-landing panic suppression -- for example, euphoria-inducing riot gas -- was used.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.05.19 02:02:00 - [27] Quote: It seems unfathomable that the entire population of a Federation planet decided unanimously and rapidly to abandon the lives they knew. Unless ... were they perhaps convinced they were going to be rescued from a disaster on the magnitude of Seyllin? Speaking of Seyllin, that's another excellent example of planetary evacuation. If memory serves, capsuleers and naval forces managed to extract 500,000 survivors in the span of scant hours, in very dangerous conditions. Seyllin however, was an unexpected emergency; these Sansha attacks appear well planned in advance.
Melichor Duraldi Gallente Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2010.05.19 03:50:00 - [28] Is it possible that short range teleportation devices (such as the type used to transport items from space to ship cargo holds) are being used to abduct the civilian populations. All the dropship needs to do is fly over a target population and grab them. No need to ever touch down on the surface, no need to restrain the population. __________________________________________________
Saxon Hawke Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.20 20:00:00 - [29] I'm not sure that teleportation is a viable option. To my knowledge no teleportation device exists that can reassemble a living organism. I've heard rumors of attempts that had rather catastrophic results. However, while working in space I have been able to use a tractor beam to lock onto a corpse and pull it into my bay. Perhaps the dropships use something similar to expedite the extraction process. Sansha forces made 47 attacks in just over a week's time and taken more than 7 million people. Figuring out they do it could be a key to stopping them.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.05.20 20:13:00 - [30] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 20/05/2010 20:13:36 Hey, yeah, I remember that Jovian who ran teleportation experiments a few years back. I think it took us a month to scrape his pieces back together from across the galaxy.

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