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Why are spelling corrections included among the bug fixes?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.18 12:57:00 - [1] They're not bugs, they are typos and it only serves to pad the bug-fix list. C'mon CCP, you can do better than that. ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.05.18 13:01:00 - [2] what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x My Facebook!
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.18 13:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2010.05.18 13:05:00 - [4] they actually explained this once in a devblog or post somewhere: tl;dr of it was that any changes they make in their bugtrack/fix/defect software that gets added to the release is included in the automatically generated list of bugfix/changes. Since spelling/grammer mistakes are included in the defect list, when they get fixed, they get added. as for armour - for some reason CCP insist on using US English instead of uk/aussie/rest of the world English. I intend to try to persuade them to change this with my boomerang next time I am in Iceland. ---------------------- My Blog
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.05.18 13:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. are correct. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Admiral Pelleon White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2010.05.18 13:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Omber Zombie they actually explained this once in a devblog or post somewhere: tl;dr of it was that any changes they make in their bugtrack/fix/defect software that gets added to the release is included in the automatically generated list of bugfix/changes. Since spelling/grammer mistakes are included in the defect list, when they get fixed, they get added. as for armour - for some reason CCP insist on using US English instead of uk/aussie/rest of the world English. I intend to try to persuade them to change this with my boomerang next time I am in Iceland. Armour is a UK English thing, in the US we spell it Armor. Same with colour(UK) and color(US). ________ Chicago players channel: 'Windy City'
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.18 14:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. are correct. I fail ________________________ Let's build a superpower.

CCP Navigator C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.18 14:17:00 - [8] Any fix or change which has an effect on the client is noted in patch notes. As players take the time to fill in bug reports to say something is not being displayed correctly we will produce notes on those when they are fixed or changed Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

DTson Gauur Caldari Underground-Operators	Posted - 2010.05.18 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP Navigator Any fix or change which has an effect on the client is noted in patch notes. As players take the time to fill in bug reports to say something is not being displayed correctly we will produce notes on those when they are fixed or changed Yeah sure, in your perfect universe maybe, I can off hand remember all the last 3 expansions having stuff missing from patch notes and even stealth nerfs/boosts done which never made it to the notes in the first place (even after players spotted them)
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.18 14:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Omber Zombie Since spelling/grammer mistakes Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2010.05.18 15:01:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Navigator Any fix or change which has an effect on the client is noted in patch notes. As players take the time to fill in bug reports to say something is not being displayed correctly we will produce notes on those when they are fixed or changed Any non-stealth fix or change which has an effect on the client that was noticed by the people making the bugs list is noted in patch notes. As players take the time to fill in bug reports to say something is not being displayed correctly we will try to produce notes on those when they are fixed or changed. Fixed! ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2010.05.18 16:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Taedrin Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. are correct. I fail the beginnings of wisdom are in evidence. if you want to know how something is spelled the oxford english dictionary is the penultimate authority for english.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 18/05/2010 17:13:06 What he said was correct. Per your recommendation How he said it was incorrect. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 18/05/2010 17:13:06 What he said was correct. Per your recommendation How he said it was incorrect. But then again, the Oxford English Dictionary is suspicious, as it advocates the use of the -ize ending, while everyone knows that ending should be -ise. For proper English spelling use the Cambridge Dictionary instead. What Noah Webster was on I don't know, I suspect he must have been drunk or something. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Playing Eve	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Ehranavaar if you want to know how something is spelled the oxford english dictionary is the penultimate authority for english. If that is the next to last authority, what is the final authority?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:08:00 - [16] Edited by: Nova Fox on 18/05/2010 20:15:27 Doesnt the oxford dictionary contain a metric tonn of words that nobody ever uses anymore? words that webster saw fit to retire? Also I dont recall any mmo not having spelling corrections or localzation as part of the fixes in thier patches. Finally reason why its armor in the states is becuase US english is lazy with the last syllable generally, so having a 'our' at the end may skew the pronoucination of the word a bit. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Never, all MMOs seem to use armor (American version) so much so that often I use Armor too when talking ingame or on the forums. I'm afraid our Armour (English version) has taken a back seat in the gaming world.
Cyprus Black Caldari League of Extraordinary Moustaches	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:21:00 - [18] Wow, it just goes to show you that some people will complain about anything. ___________________________________ "In the land of predators, the lion does not fear the jackal." -Dexter

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:27:00 - [19] We did recently have a brief discussion (well, myself and CCP Explorer did, anyway) about considering standardizing on British English rather than US English, but there's simply too much legacy text to make doing so in any consistent manner worthwhile. I did derive some measure of satisfaction though from purging every last double space from EVE's ingame text. (99% is rendered in HTML which collapses multiple spaces into a single space anyway, but it's the thought that counts.) If we were using British English (aka The Queen's English, aka Proper English, aka English English), I would definitely push to make the OED the definitive reference source on the basis that it's the most widely-recognized authority on the matter - and that despite my being a "tab".

EB Research	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:36:00 - [20] Edited by: EB Research on 18/05/2010 23:36:17
Wendi Watson	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:57:00 - [21] Originally by: CCP Greyscale If we were using British English (aka The Queen's English, aka Proper English, aka English English), I would definitely push to make the OED the definitive reference source on the basis that it's the most widely-recognized authority on the matter - and that despite my being a "tab". yes, but think about how much extra disk and DB space would be taken up by all those superfluous "u"s.
Calapine Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:14:00 - [22] Edited by: Calapine on 19/05/2010 00:15:02 Originally by: CCP Greyscale We did recently have a brief discussion (well, myself and CCP Explorer did, anyway) about considering standardizing on British English rather than US English, but there's simply too much legacy text to make doing so in any consistent manner worthwhile. I did derive some measure of satisfaction though from purging every last double space from EVE's ingame text. (99% is rendered in HTML which collapses multiple spaces into a single space anyway, but it's the thought that counts.) If we were using British English (aka The Queen's English, aka Proper English, aka English English), I would definitely push to make the OED the definitive reference source on the basis that it's the most widely-recognized authority on the matter - and that despite my being a "tab". Well, I obviously know nothing about 'puters, but I guess that means something like "Search for 'armor', replace with 'armour'" isn't possible? Also, what about applying the players time on it? Having a "Find a spelling error - 100 ISK per entry reward" contest would be great. At least would be more fun/profitable than mining! Cala

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Calapine Edited by: Calapine on 19/05/2010 00:15:02 Originally by: CCP Greyscale We did recently have a brief discussion (well, myself and CCP Explorer did, anyway) about considering standardizing on British English rather than US English, but there's simply too much legacy text to make doing so in any consistent manner worthwhile. I did derive some measure of satisfaction though from purging every last double space from EVE's ingame text. (99% is rendered in HTML which collapses multiple spaces into a single space anyway, but it's the thought that counts.) If we were using British English (aka The Queen's English, aka Proper English, aka English English), I would definitely push to make the OED the definitive reference source on the basis that it's the most widely-recognized authority on the matter - and that despite my being a "tab". Well, I obviously know nothing about 'puters, but I guess that means something like "Search for 'armor', replace with 'armour'" isn't possible? Also, what about applying the players time on it? Having a "Find a spelling error - 100 ISK per entry reward" contest would be great. At least would be more fun/profitable than mining! Cala The three big hurdles to doing what is essentially a dialect change: - Building/sourcing a list of ALL variations between the two dialects. It's relatively trivial to search for armor and replace with armour, but completely re-localizing everything effectively is not at all trivial. - Altering all our other existing material, including several websites, all the existing chrons and novellas and whatnot, template material and so on and so forth. - Getting buy-in from everyone involved. To actually get a consensus agreement on a change like this through would probably involve a LOT of discussion that could more fruitfully be directed in other directions. We would probably decide in the process that we would prefer to keep the same spelling and syntax style in all our products (for various reasons including making it easy for employees to switch between products, having a generally consistent corporate style, making editors' lives easier and so on), which would then mean having a company-wide, all-projects discussion on whether to commit everyone to changing all their existing text. At some point in this discussion somebody would no doubt point out that we're talking about a fairly significant amount of money here (remember, developer time = money), and ask why this was such an important change, and saying "all those Zs offend me" unfortunately doesn't cut the mustard. In the end, while it's something that's fun to talk about with our artiste hats on (Explorer looks lovely in his), when we put on our professional developer hats it's obvious that this is not a practical suggestion. Instead, we do things like spitefully excising double spaces, viciously correcting errant break tag usage, and other theraputic syntactic purges.

Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:35:00 - [24] Edited by: Cat o''Ninetails on 19/05/2010 00:35:00 i love my job lol x My Facebook!
Calapine Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Calapine on 19/05/2010 00:52:57 Wee...thank you for the reply :) Your third point is something I'd hadn't consider all that all, and probably somewhat explains why a lot of "Dear CCP, this takes 10 mins to code, why don't you do it?!!" bugfixes/changes don't happen: It's all more complicated than it looks on first glance. And yes, it's really a minor thing. To quote you 'developer timer = money', and there is really sooooo much that needs to be fixed before spelling. Like...um...hybrid balance and the in-game font...please. (Yes, I fly Gallente and have poor eyesight). And Lag, of course. Cala
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.05.19 01:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Armour is a UK English thing, Not really, it's an everywhere but the US thing. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Zofran	Posted - 2010.05.19 01:27:00 - [27] Because when you arn't actually developing the game and IP you might as well bloat up patch notes to make players think they are getting a "free" "expansion"... hurrrrrrr
el Sabor	Posted - 2010.05.19 01:46:00 - [28] Edited by: el Sabor on 19/05/2010 01:46:57 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x To add to the list I have trouble searching for from time to time: nanofibre analyser There servers are in London so they're doing it wrong! Doesn't really bother me to be honest though. Probably more Americans playing than Brits anyway.
General klinkerhoffen	Posted - 2010.05.19 02:07:00 - [29] Originally by: el Sabor There servers are in London so they're doing it wrong!
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Hand That Feeds	Posted - 2010.05.19 02:39:00 - [30] Surely it is a trivial thing to replace all the US English glitched words with their correct UK English counterparts, heck it could almost be scripted. Replace("Armor","Armour") And then run it over all of the Eve code base. Heck even the function names would then be updated with the correct spelling, and because you are running it over the entire code base nothing would break :)
el Sabor	Posted - 2010.05.19 02:50:00 - [31] Originally by: General klinkerhoffen Originally by: el Sabor There servers are in London so they're doing it wrong! Heh, I'm doing it wrong too! I have an excuse since it's past my bedtime.
Makar Kravchenko	Posted - 2010.05.19 06:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. Just like "Defence" and "Defense" shrug why is this a thread.
darkmaninov Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:31:00 - [33] Originally by: Ehranavaar the beginnings of wisdom are in evidence. if you want to know how something is spelled the oxford english dictionary is the penultimate authority for english. I hate people that use big words, when a diminutive one would suffice.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:36:00 - [34] Originally by: Makar Kravchenko Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails what i want to know is when they will spell armour correctly lol x Technically, "armor" and "armour" is correct. Just like "Defence" and "Defense" shrug why is this a thread. Thanks for hijacking the topic people. The thread is/was about why CCP finds it necessary to include spelling corrections as a bug fix when all it is is fixing a typo. My insinuation being that they use it to "pad" their bug fix list so it looks like they have done more "bug fixes." ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader!
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.05.19 09:22:00 - [35] Defence - Remove a fence from a property Defense - To protect Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Calapine Your third point is something I'd hadn't consider all that all, and probably somewhat explains why a lot of "Dear CCP, this takes 10 mins to code, why don't you do it?!!" bugfixes/changes don't happen: It's all more complicated than it looks on first glance. This is pretty much universally true, yes. Example: the thing we added in Apocrypha where holding Control freezes the overview. Looks like you'd just add "if Control then don't update", which is fairly trivial. The actual workflow went something like this: 1) Get design approval from Hammer to pursue this feature 2) Get a rough assessment from Software on how easy this would be to implement 3) Locate a programmer with room in their schedule (ie time not already committed to something else) 4) Locate a QA tester with room in their schedule (ditto) 5) Work up a more detailed design brief 6) Programmer starts implementing 7) Programmer and designer together agree on and implement solutions for issues arising during implementation, including: how to display contacts that have left the area, how to display contacts that are arriving in the area, how to display contacts that arrive in the area by non-standard means (jetcans, for example), how to deal with situations where the client loses and gains focus while Control is or isn't held down. 8) Let QA tester test the feature 9) Programmer and designer again work together to resolve further issues that arise during testing 10) Repeat 8) and 9) until it passes testing Altogether, this ended up being a couple of weeks' worth of various developers' time from initial approval to shippable code. Where there's a specific developer pushing for a specific "small change" (the above was my doing) there is sometimes room in the schedule to fit it in - although equally, sometimes our development resources are already fully booked. For example, during Tyrannis development most of the development staff was already fully- or over-allocated working on primary features, so there was very little room to make additional smaller changes. While there are lots of small changes (some of which really are as trivial as it gets - a day or less programming time and a similar amount of QA work) that could be slotted in, there are lots of said small changes, and scheduling them in a responsible way involves assessing each one for value and workload, prioritizing them and then finding room for them in the existing schedule. The tl;dr is that professional, large-scale game development is a pretty complex business, and it's a good rule of thumb that everything is harder than it looks if you actually want to do it properly.

Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.19 11:57:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Greyscale 3) Locate a programmer with room in their schedule (ie time not already committed to something else) 4) Locate a QA tester with room in their schedule (ditto) That alone answer a lot. Seems you don't have dedicated personnel for "small" changes. That is why small changes hardly ever take place. But take it from me, small changes is what "quality of life" is all about. It's the little things that make people happy. Perhaps your company should reconsider their priorities on these matters. ------------------------------------------------ Please support my anti-macro mining proposal.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: CCP Greyscale 3) Locate a programmer with room in their schedule (ie time not already committed to something else) 4) Locate a QA tester with room in their schedule (ditto) That alone answer a lot. Seems you don't have dedicated personnel for "small" changes. That is why small changes hardly ever take place. But take it from me, small changes is what "quality of life" is all about. It's the little things that make people happy. Perhaps your company should reconsider their priorities on these matters. Even when you get said personnel in place, you still need to schedule in each individual change - EVE has more than enough potential small changes to fill multiple years of work, so you still need to prioritize on a case-by-case basis.

Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:07:00 - [39] Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 19/05/2010 12:09:18 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: CCP Greyscale 3) Locate a programmer with room in their schedule (ie time not already committed to something else) 4) Locate a QA tester with room in their schedule (ditto) That alone answer a lot. Seems you don't have dedicated personnel for "small" changes. That is why small changes hardly ever take place. But take it from me, small changes is what "quality of life" is all about. It's the little things that make people happy. Perhaps your company should reconsider their priorities on these matters. Even when you get said personnel in place, you still need to schedule in each individual change - EVE has more than enough potential small changes to fill multiple years of work, so you still need to prioritize on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps if these websites I have never heard of that give CCP awards that I have never heard gave away awards for "Most bugs fixed" instead of "Most Teenager Pleasing Bull**" we'd all be better off? Conventional wisdom says "Bugfixes doesn't sell software". One look at the most successful software on the planet confirms this is true. People do not want reliable, functional, swift, efficient software. They want . They want in as many colours as they can fit onto their HD monitors. And until people actually demand non-, they will get just **. I now own a car that needs rebooting after a few months. ffs. We need an international Punch A Programmer day. Edit: Also, Punch A Marketing Guy day. Also, Punch A Customer day. Also, Punch somebody who works in "Production" day.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:35:00 - [40] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Nooma K'Larr Originally by: CCP Greyscale 3) Locate a programmer with room in their schedule (ie time not already committed to something else) 4) Locate a QA tester with room in their schedule (ditto) That alone answer a lot. Seems you don't have dedicated personnel for "small" changes. That is why small changes hardly ever take place. But take it from me, small changes is what "quality of life" is all about. It's the little things that make people happy. Perhaps your company should reconsider their priorities on these matters. Even when you get said personnel in place, you still need to schedule in each individual change - EVE has more than enough potential small changes to fill multiple years of work, so you still need to prioritize on a case-by-case basis. Just want to say, it's great hearing from a dev...Thank You for taking the time to share some inside info with us. OT: A viable solution, and probably a only one time solution, is to have an "expansion" dedicated to game play instead of new features. Focused on big killing, macro busting, bounty hunting fixing...etc. EVE is a great product, but I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this: I feel it could be so much more. And by "more", I mean polishing up what you already have before moving on to new material. ------------------------------------------------ Please support my anti-macro mining proposal.

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