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Archangel Auditores	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:21:00 - [1] Hey Guys, Okay I am curious, Should I shield tank or armor tank my Machariel. I really don't know which to do it with, I dont need to know what mods to put however just which one will be better for it. Thanks all!
Archangel Auditores	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:26:00 - [2] Bump
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:32:00 - [3] Yes, you should shield tank or armor tank your Machariel. Highly recommended. -- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.
Boran Tisk The Hawk Bats	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Yes, you should shield tank or armor tank your Machariel. Highly recommended. +1
Shant M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:09:00 - [5] Buy several Machariels and do all of the different tank types?
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:10:00 - [6] Go for a nice pvp fit. It's fast, does high dps at long range, and points from extreme range. [Machariel, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Domination Nanofiber Structure Domination Nanofiber Structure Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Core X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Tobias' Modified Warp Disruptor Draclira's Modified Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Just watch out for being doomsdayed by the Titans that also in the price range for people considering this ship.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.19 01:03:00 - [7] Shield tank it. PVP: You fit damage, range, and speed in the lows to become a BC on Mark McGwire level steroids. PVE: You fit damage and range in the lows and complete missions at blinding speed. Armor tanking is very viable on the ship as well, and is in no way Fail. But shield tanking allows you to go for max gank or max speed, both of which put this ship's more ridiculous attributes to good use.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.19 04:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Demolishar Go for a nice pvp fit. It's fast, does high dps at long range, and points from extreme range. [Machariel, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Domination Nanofiber Structure Domination Nanofiber Structure Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Core X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Tobias' Modified Warp Disruptor Draclira's Modified Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Just watch out for being doomsdayed by the Titans that also in the price range for people considering this ship. I take it you don't fly this fit. Shield tank it, leaves more lows for gyros and tracking enhancers. You end up with very high dps and falloff. Prop mod mandatory, of course.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.19 04:29:00 - [9] 1083 DPS from guns alone. 4.2+69.1 km range. 442 tank against Angel Cartel 600 m/s speed. 49m12s capacitor w/ tractor beam. Stable w/o. Four damage mods. Three tracking mods. If the numbers don't speak for themselves, then the fitting should. [Machariel, Lvl4] 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.05.19 05:09:00 - [10] I'm a nm and paldin pilot that's been training/flying a mach. fairly decent gun skills and imho. shields in general > armor for gank missions. for tanking vrs. sansha/blood(natural res.) I use an armor gank type fit w/3x gyro, 2x or 3x tc. exact fits will cost xtra. :) -- "One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."

Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.19 06:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Aamrr on 19/05/2010 06:54:01 And now...for the competition. 1083 DPS from guns alone. 4.0+60.7 km range. 470 tank against Sansha's Nation 592.5 m/s speed. 7m9s capacitor w/o tractor beam. (Use an implant) Four damage mods. Three tracking mods. If the numbers don't speak for themselves, then the fitting should? [Machariel, Lvl4] 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Cap Recharger II Centus A-Type Large Armor Repairer Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Valkyrie II x5
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 07:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Demolishar Go for a nice pvp fit. It's fast, does high dps at long range, and points from extreme range. [Machariel, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Domination Nanofiber Structure Domination Nanofiber Structure Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Core X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Tobias' Modified Warp Disruptor Draclira's Modified Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Gotan's Modified 800mm Repeating Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Just watch out for being doomsdayed by the Titans that also in the price range for people considering this ship. I take it you don't fly this fit. No, but one of these days I'm gonna grab the modules on SiSi and try it.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.19 07:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Demolishar No, but one of these days I'm gonna grab the modules on SiSi and try it. I hardly see how that's relevant to a realistic discussion of this ship. Can we discuss realistic fittings here, rather than some asinine dream setup that will never be assembled on tranquility? I'd like to think that the two setups posted above warrant discussion.
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 07:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Aamrr rather than some asinine dream setup that will never be assembled on tranquility? Says who?!
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.19 07:32:00 - [15] . <-- see that? It's the point. You missed it.
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:13:00 - [16] You're boring, aren't you? Fine with me if you stick to your carebear fits, just stop trying to stop any discussion of any alternatives.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.19 08:31:00 - [17] I didn't object to them because they were PvP fittings. I objected to them because it was a battleship worth more than a gang of capital ships. Make fun of missioners all you want, but I'm sure even you aren't dense enough to misunderstand that.
Unity Love Caldari Dissonance Corp	Posted - 2010.05.19 12:23:00 - [18] I too, put 40b of invulnerability fields alone on my machriael.
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.05.19 15:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Aamrr I didn't object to them because they were PvP fittings. I objected to them because it was a battleship worth more than a gang of capital ships. Make fun of missioners all you want, but I'm sure even you aren't dense enough to misunderstand that. And what's the issue? I guess noone's allowed to voice their aspirations under your rules. If it really grates that much, replace the Estamel's invulns with CN Invulns in your mind and it becomes no more expensive than a very pimped mission Marauder. I thought the fitting was interesting given that it was the highest performing PvP Machariel possible, but boring people like you don't see it's merit. It's like saying in real life; "I wonder what it's like to be an astronaut - if I were an astronaut I'd do etc etc." and being told "YOU HAVE NO REASONABLE CHANCE OF EVER BECOMING AN ASTRONAUT STFU WE WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS!!!!". "What if?" scenarios can actually be quite fun to discuss and I really don't see why you have such a huge downer on them - given I never intended to post that Machariel as a reasonable and affordable setup - but as I said as a demonstration of what I believe to be the highest performing pvp variation of that ship. So let's not start a flamewar over it, OK?
Sabine Demsky Minmatar DARMATECH United Front Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.19 22:11:00 - [20] HI, ill give you a fit i like to use Highs: 800 autos, imperial heavy neut Meds: faction MWD, faction poiint, invuln, 2x LSE Lows: DC, PDS, 3x gyro, 2x tracking enchancers, RIGS: extender rigs giant cynabal AND IS AWESOME~!

Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.19 23:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Demolishar It's like saying in real life; "I wonder what it's like to be an astronaut - if I were an astronaut I'd do etc etc." and being told "YOU HAVE NO REASONABLE CHANCE OF EVER BECOMING AN ASTRONAUT STFU WE WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS!!!!". "What if?" scenarios can actually be quite fun to discuss and I really don't see why you have such a huge downer on them - given I never intended to post that Machariel as a reasonable and affordable setup - but as I said as a demonstration of what I believe to be the highest performing pvp variation of that ship. So let's not start a flamewar over it, OK? What you're describing is less like wanting to be an astronaut and more like wanting to drive a Maserati through Basra with an American flag waving in the window. If you were dreaming over a PVE fit that would be one thing, but you're suggesting flying a ship that everyone wants a killmail for, and fitting it like a veritable space pi±ata is something worth dreaming over. People yell at these fits because it's guaranteed that you're dead sooner or later in PVP. It's part moral outrage, and part hoping we cure you of such dreams before you lose an incredible amount of isk some day trying. But as always, you are free to put anything you want on your EFT or Sisi Machariel. Or TQ, if you're rich and silly enough.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:03:00 - [22] PvE: Large burst aerator II, 4 gyros, 3 TE, 7x800mm, a prop mod, and the rest can be filled with whatever you want. PvP got covered already.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.20 00:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Von Kapiche PvE: Large burst aerator II, 4 gyros... So...you're selecting a single T2 weapon rig, consuming 300 calibration, leaving no room left for other rigs... ...for what amounts to a 6.47% damage increase after the stacking penalties from the gyrostabilizers is taken into account? And this seems a wise decision when weighed against a set of CCC modules, which provide a 58.7% increase in capacitor recharge rate? I find this decision ill-advised.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 01:42:00 - [24] Edited by: Von Kapiche on 20/05/2010 01:43:38 Originally by: Aamrr Originally by: Von Kapiche PvE: Large burst aerator II, 4 gyros... So...you're selecting a single T2 weapon rig, consuming 300 calibration, leaving no room left for other rigs... ...for what amounts to a 6.47% damage increase after the stacking penalties from the gyrostabilizers is taken into account? And this seems a wise decision when weighed against a set of CCC modules, which provide a 58.7% increase in capacitor recharge rate? I find this decision ill-advised. I'm selecting a rig that gives 61 dps to my fit and leaves space for a resist rig, a cap safeguard rig, or a CDFE, vs rigs that add useless cap? I've never once capped my Mach out. Hint: largest bonus goes to the top of the stacking penalty. Last gyro is more or less just the damage bonus and still adds 40dps but what else is there to fit usefully. If there was ever a boat that tanked on damage, then this is it.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.05.20 04:23:00 - [25] If this were a Vargur, where you had rig slots and 400 calibration to play with? I would absolutely agree with you. But this isn't a marauder, it's a faction battleship. That means 3 rig slots with only 350 calibration between them. And when it means the difference between being able to permarun your tank and not...it might well save your ship in a disconnect. For a ship this expensive, I think that's worth losing 61 DPS. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE gank setups. The Machariel is a fantastic ship for it. But this is pretty steep diminishing returns, even for the Mach.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:26:00 - [26] Well if you really must permarun your tank, sure. I'm happy with 2-3 mins tank life. Generally it seems that fits are assumed not to be permarun unless actually stated. If you're worried about discos or suicides or whatever, I'm not sure why you'd fly something you're that worried about losing in the first place though.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.05.20 19:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Sabine Demsky HI, ill give you a fit i like to use Highs: 800 autos, imperial heavy neut Meds: faction MWD, faction poiint, invuln, 2x LSE Lows: DC, PDS, 3x gyro, 2x tracking enchancers, RIGS: extender rigs giant cynabal AND IS AWESOME~! I don't like blowing up the sig with extenders. It's got enough shield HP to field a decent buffer with just Invulns. [Machariel, The Sh!t] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Overdrive Injector Heavy Capacitor Booster II Gist A-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I Large Auxiliary Thrusters II 3x Berserker II 2x Valkyrie II -- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.


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