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Sinti Vailatti
Epitoth Fleet Yards
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Posted - 2010.05.21 00:33:00 -
[31]
Ooh! Ooh! IÆll go!! IÆll go!!
OhàI canÆt. My Boss wonÆt allow me. IÆll tell you why.
Typically, most of you people have never been a slave. I doubt some of you have ever even seen one!
TCMC, VITOC, and all the rest are the tools of the lazy. 99% of your perception of what Amarrian slavery is, is based on the refugees you pull out of small, backwards colonies on the rim, or those you free from a non-Amarrian pirate groups. The average Amarr slave is not too much different from any other working class stiff. Slaves work as support staff in practically every field. We pilot your shuttles. We network your computers. We mine and refine your ore. We cook your meals, care for your kids and bury your dead. You canÆt do these things effectively if youÆre staggering around like a zombie. You canÆt be trusted to do these things if youÆre doing it under duress. If you slap me in the morning, do you really want me serving your soup that night?
The average Amarrian slaveholder is a working class slob with a husband and 2.3 kids and one slave to help around the house while she goes to work We have families, we get the education we need to do our job ûand we are placed in a job that we can handle and not left to starve while experiencing the ôbenefitsö of a ôfree marketö economy. High-sec Amarr slaves want for nothing. We are fed, we are clothed. We raise families. We get health care and we retire when weÆre old!
When we say we belong to someone we mean we belong! WeÆre not left out in the cold! We are all a part of something greater than ourselves and we are loved!
And that chummers, is the big difference. Sansha slaves (along with Blood freaks and other ones) are not loved. They are not a part of society like we are in Amarr. They exist outside the structure of society. There is the God angle, yes. And youÆre wrong because my God speaks to me too. And I donÆt need a chip in my head to hear Him.
And letÆs not forget that most of the stuff you buy from Amarr and Khanid space was made from a pro-slave economy. Your government makes slavery illegal, but they still trade with us and they still buy our stuff. You there. You with that can of Qaffe! Where was it canned? Next time you pay a docking fee or ride the Interbus or get your nuts pulled from the fire (or lately tossed into it) by Concord you can thank an organization that supports a pro-slave economy.
Sansha just wants drones and a hive-mind and dominion over all. Now do you see the difference?
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Ran Khanon
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.05.21 09:25:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
Ooh! Ooh! IÆll go!! IÆll go!!
OhàI canÆt. My Boss wonÆt allow me. IÆll tell you why.
Typically, most of you people have never been a slave. I doubt some of you have ever even seen one!
TCMC, VITOC, and all the rest are the tools of the lazy. 99% of your perception of what Amarrian slavery is, is based on the refugees you pull out of small, backwards colonies on the rim, or those you free from a non-Amarrian pirate groups. The average Amarr slave is not too much different from any other working class stiff. Slaves work as support staff in practically every field. We pilot your shuttles. We network your computers. We mine and refine your ore. We cook your meals, care for your kids and bury your dead. You canÆt do these things effectively if youÆre staggering around like a zombie. You canÆt be trusted to do these things if youÆre doing it under duress. If you slap me in the morning, do you really want me serving your soup that night?
The average Amarrian slaveholder is a working class slob with a husband and 2.3 kids and one slave to help around the house while she goes to work We have families, we get the education we need to do our job ûand we are placed in a job that we can handle and not left to starve while experiencing the ôbenefitsö of a ôfree marketö economy. High-sec Amarr slaves want for nothing. We are fed, we are clothed. We raise families. We get health care and we retire when weÆre old!
When we say we belong to someone we mean we belong! WeÆre not left out in the cold! We are all a part of something greater than ourselves and we are loved!
And that chummers, is the big difference. Sansha slaves (along with Blood freaks and other ones) are not loved. They are not a part of society like we are in Amarr. They exist outside the structure of society. There is the God angle, yes. And youÆre wrong because my God speaks to me too. And I donÆt need a chip in my head to hear Him.
And letÆs not forget that most of the stuff you buy from Amarr and Khanid space was made from a pro-slave economy. Your government makes slavery illegal, but they still trade with us and they still buy our stuff. You there. You with that can of Qaffe! Where was it canned? Next time you pay a docking fee or ride the Interbus or get your nuts pulled from the fire (or lately tossed into it) by Concord you can thank an organization that supports a pro-slave economy.
Sansha just wants drones and a hive-mind and dominion over all. Now do you see the difference?
Thank you for your unbiased and honest input in this discussion, miss Vailatti. It is highly educational for those misguided individuals who perceive Sansha slavery to be of a similar nature to what you describe so aptly as 'the belonging' offered by the Empire.
It is clear that you yourself have evolved to become an individual instilled with a great sense of perception and honesty. Both virtues which our god and Empress hold in high esteem. I regard you as an asset to our Empire and you are an example to the untold masses without a purpose in their lives and especially to those that are so easily tempted to condemn and support terrorist aggression against our Empire.
With regards,
Ran Khanon
Help us to make parrots game related today! |
Yarod Cool
Team JAVELIN
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Posted - 2010.05.21 09:38:00 -
[33]
Well... When the Amarr, or Khanids, or pirates take slaves, they're still people. When the Sanshas take them and do what they do to them, are they still people?
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.24 01:56:00 -
[34]
Originally by: foksieloy
Which means, not only did you enslave the first generation without hope of redemption, you also made them reproduce more slaves for you. That is worse than what Sansha do.
Who says a first generation slave can not reach enlightenment and be freed as an Ammatar? While the Empress did decree slaves be released after a certain number of generations it does not mean they can not be released before then. Take for example a slave who has a child. That slave is faithful, obedient, studies the word of God. That child is raised by his parents studying the scriptures and learning about God and his role in service to the empire. That young slave child could become an adult and be freed as an Ammatar.
To try and claim Minmatar slaves have no hope is pure fiction. The Amarr give them hope by teaching them about God. They go from hopelessness on some Matari world to hope and enlightenment. Slavery = Hope.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE
ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.05.24 03:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
Sansha just wants drones and a hive-mind and dominion over all. Now do you see the difference?
And the unquestioning obedience to Jamyl and your "god" are different how?
What you want is irrelevant. What you've chosen is at hand. |
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2010.05.24 08:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Anabella Rella
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
Sansha just wants drones and a hive-mind and dominion over all. Now do you see the difference?
And the unquestioning obedience to Jamyl and your "god" are different how?
Difference being. One of the claims above actually might be true to a degree.
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Jandice Ymladris
Caldari
Planet Patrol
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Posted - 2010.05.24 11:11:00 -
[37]
With all this arguing of Amarr slavery versus Nation slavery, people forget the one thing that sets them apart.... the power slaves wield.
In the Amarr Empire & Khanid Kingdom slaves hold no power due to the fact they might rebel. Even a vitoc induced slave won't have power, why? he can be freed and if he had a position of power, how small it might be, it can prove dangerous to the nations.
A Sansha Slave holds power, the noncapsuleer ones crew ships,command ships, fight with them. Their loyalty is total, their free will reprogrammed so much they have no choice but to serve Nation.
The True Slaves are even more powerful. they are capsuleers with stunning abilities, they can command capital ships, open & close wormholes (or command someone to do it) they lead entire fleets of sansha ships into battle and coordinate groundassaults. Yet they are slaves, their will altered so they are obiedient to Kuvakei without even a notion of rebellion.
These slaves are almost impossible to save, the few that survived the deprogrammation are no longer the same person, they have become in fact a new person.
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Cleaning up wrecks others leave behind! Got to keep space clean! |
Sinti Vailatti
Epitoth Fleet Yards
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Posted - 2010.05.24 13:08:00 -
[38]
Ugh,
Jandice? Cherll? Are you slaves? We're you ever slaves? We're you ever slaves of a decent high-sec Amarr family? No. You weren't. Stop basing your opinion on tri-vids and what the Republic tells you. If you pride yourself on being free, be free of media.
The difference about God vs the false promises of Sansha? Well the obvious one is that my God is real and keeps His promises. For those who don't have faith that answer won't apply so we'll go with option number two. Deep down inside is where you hold your faith. Either you have it or you don't. An Amrr slave, no matter what control system is used, has to deal with issues of faith just like her Master or Mistress. A Sansha dosen't because it's not faith, it's cold computer programing. Sansha took methods of brainwashing used by the blood cults and others and found a way to add it to programing. It's just as much a bastardization. (Bastardization of Faith is also known as blasphemy).
Long and short? Amarr faith leaves doubts. Sansha dosen't. But if you couldn't doubt, it wouldn't be faith. Without faith, it dosen't matter how many people stand with you, you're still all alone in the night.
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Lillith Blackheart
NeuroGEN
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Posted - 2010.05.24 13:13:00 -
[39]
Your assertion contains a logical fallacy, Matari.
You make the claim that without faith you are still alone in the night with the intent to show that faith is the opposite. You have no proof to support this supposition -- hence "faith" -- and therefore the argument is moot.
However you also neglect that a True Slave is never alone.
There is always Master Kuvakei's Will, he is always with them.
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Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2010.05.24 14:12:00 -
[40]
Lillith. the Term to use for this one is Ammatar. Let us try not to offend the Minmatar by calling this bastardization of Tribal blood with Amarr culture something it is not?
Ammatar Valetti, perhaps we could reach an agreement on one thing?
You don't tell me who I have been, nor where I have been. Unless you can back it up with some facts.
In exchange I'll let you keep shouting for those shackles you have. As long as you keep it away from Nation.
Citizen Charon. |
Jandice Ymladris
Caldari
Planet Patrol
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Posted - 2010.05.24 14:38:00 -
[41]
It seems Miss Vailatti misunderstood me. I was merely pointing out the difference between the two, in my statement you do not see a judging of slavery. merely a major distinction between the two.
I usually keep a low profile, as the fight against Sansha's Nation keep me occupied. To point out, I do research on things and I am aware how most amarr live & treat slaves.
But the major point is: Amarr (and Khanid) slaves don't hold power. Nation Slaves do. that is the big divide, and the reason we should focus on halting Nation, and not throw them on the same heap as Amarr slavery.
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Cleaning up wrecks others leave behind! Got to keep space clean! |
Sinti Vailatti
Epitoth Fleet Yards
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Posted - 2010.05.24 15:20:00 -
[42]
Ok. Sorry for the presuppositions.
Lillith is technically right in calling me Matari because my family originally came from a planet in Minmatar space, not Ammatar.
Legally, I am an Amarr citizen.
Lil, I think youÆre wrong in that you seem to be saying that faith doesnÆtÆ count because you canÆt quantify it. Faith is based on the idea that you believe in something that you canÆt prove. I can prove that a Sansha zombie listens to her Master because I can write out the code that drives the computer that makes it so. I canÆt numerically or biologically explain the effect God has on me, so itÆs faith. KuvakeiÆs ôwillö is also based in technology so again, itÆs not faith-based.
I know this isnÆt the forum for it Chell, but IÆd like to hear your story sometime. UmàisnÆt asking me to keep my shackles away from the nation kind of like asking me to keep a bottle of spiced wine out of your bar?
Amarr slaves donÆt hold poweràwell, not as such.
HereÆs another difference though that I thought of thatÆs pretty significant. Amarr slavery is legal in Amarr space and itÆs heavily regulated and taxed. ItÆs a foundation block to our economy. Sansha slaves arenÆt legal and generate no tax dollars for the economy. By allowing Sansha slaves free operation within the Empire, it calls into question every aspect of the institution of slavery. This could lead to a destabilization of the slave market and plunge the Empire into an economic depression. I mean, why spend tax dollars to own slaves legally when you can just say theyÆre Sansha? ItÆs illegal to own Gallente slaves in Amarr high-sec, but if we say heÆs a Sansha slave then it is ok?
When you ignore the edicts that we follow in how we keep slaves, you ignore not just the law but the Word of God and Church.
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.05.24 17:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
HereÆs another difference though that I thought of thatÆs pretty significant. Amarr slavery is legal in Amarr space and itÆs heavily regulated and taxed. ItÆs a foundation block to our economy. Sansha slaves arenÆt legal and generate no tax dollars for the economy. By allowing Sansha slaves free operation within the Empire, it calls into question every aspect of the institution of slavery. This could lead to a destabilization of the slave market and plunge the Empire into an economic depression.
Thanks for finally admitting what many of us knew all along, Ammatar. The real reason slavery exists in your empire has nothing to do with "salvation" and everything to do with economics. You see the Sansha as competition to your slave monopoly rather than as a threat to mankind's very existence.
As utterly reprehensible as I find creatures like you and Gaia Aemeila at least in between spouting your propaganda a few bits of truth occasionally spill out.
Now back under the bridge with you "chummer" like the good little slaver puppet you are.
What you want is irrelevant. What you've chosen is at hand. |
Sinti Vailatti
Epitoth Fleet Yards
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Posted - 2010.05.24 18:23:00 -
[44]
What are you talking about?!? Salvation is the one thing that keeps us all going, Slave or Freeman! Economics is at the heart of every society. But our Salvation is our SOUL!
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:34:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Anabella Rella on 24/05/2010 19:36:20
And so is isk generation and preservation. Or are you denying what you stated above about the empire's entire economic system collapsing without access to the cheap labor provided by slaves?
Salvation my ass. It's all about the isk and maintaining the status quo for your ruling elites.
You guys are just mad that the Sansha are moving in on your monopoly.
What you want is irrelevant. What you've chosen is at hand. |
Vaarun
Amarr
Imperio Obscura
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: snake driver
While a slave to the Amarr, one still retains free will. When ordered to do something, a slave always has the choice to disobey. Now, obviously, this choice usually bears the consequence of death...
What part of Amarr are you from? Death as a punishement? They don't learn well from that lesson, and the slaves you have left will tend to be even more unruly.
If their is a master to puts his slave to death for disobeying, then he will not be master for long. That is a weak, inefficient, and callous punishment and I had assumed that kind of thing had stopped more than a century ago.
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Vaarun
Amarr
Imperio Obscura
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:53:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Vaarun on 24/05/2010 19:53:28
***ERROR***
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Backho
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:56:00 -
[48]
hello. im twelve years old.
Is amarr real? is there real slaves in the world? Im from earth hallo there i dont know much about slavery.
But i think sansha are bad guys. and amarr gives me money to kill them. good times.
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Saul Dhampir
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:19:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 29/05/2010 12:19:26
Slavery is slavery is slavery
You're a slaver? You're going to burn.
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Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 29/05/2010 12:19:26
Slavery is slavery is slavery
You're a slaver? You're going to burn.
Mh, thats some pretty solid rethoric of yours - at least for someone who's at the beck and call of a blood raider sympathizer.
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Xavier Fate
Gallente
Naqam
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:20:00 -
[51]
Well, there is a lot to address here:
1.) Lilith hit the issue right on the head. Read her post.
2.) Nation does not cultivate people to produce slaves. This is a myth outright. Some people have their behaviors modified. The Amarr believe once a race's joint behavior has been sufficiently modified (ie they are faithful enough, long enough) they can be free. Nation practices much the philosophy. Only through the use of Nation technology - the modification happens right now. If someone does not require modification, if they are productive members of society as they are, they are let be. Even when modification is necessary, it only squelching the behaviors that are detrimental to society that are deterred. Additionally, if a person needs additional skills to fill their role, that can be awarded to them.
Honestly, there is only one group of monsters in this debate. They stand behind faith and call their hypocrisies 'divine.'
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snake driver
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.30 22:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Saul Dhampir
Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 29/05/2010 12:19:26
Slavery is slavery is slavery
You're a slaver? You're going to burn.
Umm... no. The whole point of the discussion was to consider the different things which fall under the larger blanket term "slavery." I appreciate your passion regarding the issue, but I would also appreciate it if you kept your useless rhetoric somewhere else. It is great for firing up soldiers to fight - and it is worthless to meaningful discussion and debate.
For the record, I would also like to state that I have learned a great deal about both Nation and Amarrian slavery, and will gladly acknowledge that some of my assertions at the start of the discussion were incorrect. I am also pleased with the exchange that has been prompted and hope that this discussion can continue.
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Sinti Vailatti
Epitoth Fleet Yards
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Posted - 2010.05.31 05:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Backho
hello. im twelve years old.
Is amarr real? is there real slaves in the world? Im from earth hallo there i dont know much about slavery.
But i think sansha are bad guys. and amarr gives me money to kill them. good times.
Backho, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of Republic propaganda. They do not believe anything except what they see on IGS. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Backho, whether they be menÆs or childrenÆs, or slaveÆs are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless galaxy about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge; the intelligence of God.
Yes, Backho, there is an Amarr. And in Amarr, slavery exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and know that slaves abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! How dreary would be the world if there were no Amarrian slavery! It would be as dreary as if there were no Backhos. There would be no childlike faith then, no sacrifice, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.
Not believe in Amarr! You might as well not believe in rogue drones. You might get your papa to hire men to watch all the star gates on the Republic border to catch an Amarrian, but even if you did not see an Amarr ship with a slave crew, what would that prove? Nobody sees the truth behind the SPCS, but that is no sign that there is no SPCS . The most real things in the galaxy are those that neither children nor men nor slaves can see. Did you ever see rogue drones attacking a miner? Of course not, but thatÆs no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders that are unseen and unseeable in the galaxy.
You tear apart the babyÆs rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which neither the most successful Caldari megacorp, nor even the Gross Domestic Product of all the Caldari megacorps that ever existed could buy off. Only faith, slavery, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory of Amarr. Is it all real? Ah, Backho, in all this galaxy there is nothing else real and abiding.
No Amarr! Thank God they live and live forever. A thousand years from now, Backho, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, God will continue to make glad the heart of all Amarr and the slaves who serve them!
Serving the Dark Amarr |
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