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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.05.27 08:51:00 -
[1]
The new data dump reveils some changes in the ore reprocessing table:
Ore Tri Pyr Mex Iso Nox Zyd Meg Mor ------------------------------------------------------ Arkonor 300 0 0 0 0 166 333 0 Bistot 0 170 0 0 0 341 170 0 Crokite 331 0 0 0 331 663 0 0 Gneiss 171 0 171 343 0 171 0 0 Hedbergite 0 290 0 708 354 32 0 0 Hemorphite 650 260 60 212 424 28 0 0 Jaspet 259 437 518 0 259 8 0 0 Kernite 386 0 773 386 0 0 0 0 Mercoxit 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 530 Omber 307 123 0 307 0 0 0 0 Plagioclase 256 512 256 0 0 0 0 0 Pyroxeres 844 59 120 0 11 0 0 0 Scordite 833 416 0 0 0 0 0 0 Spodumain 3190 410 0 0 0 0 140 0 Veldspar 1000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 * Hedbergite delivers now 290 units of Pyerite * Hemorphite breaks down to 3x Trit than before and additional 260 units of Pyerite and 60 units of Mexallon * Jaspet delivers 437 units of Pyerite (+60%) * from Spodumain you can extract more than 4,5 times more Tritanium.
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Ere Colliseru
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Posted - 2010.05.27 09:06:00 -
[2]
Cheers! Wonder how ABC will change. Guess they add Trit&Co as well to them.
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Seminole Sun
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:38:00 -
[3]
I don't understand the Jaspet change... it still sucks (and it won't get any better with Pyerite becoming much more common)... Do they expect Nocx to rise so much that Jaspet will pick up that way?
Ditto Omber. Why not tweak it to be a good source of Isogen? Bumping Omber to ~400 Iso and Jaspet to ~40 Zydrine would have made those two much more viable.
Any thoughts about what CCP was thinking regarding those two?
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Seminole Sun I don't understand the Jaspet change... it still sucks (and it won't get any better with Pyerite becoming much more common)... Do they expect Nocx to rise so much that Jaspet will pick up that way?
Ditto Omber. Why not tweak it to be a good source of Isogen? Bumping Omber to ~400 Iso and Jaspet to ~40 Zydrine would have made those two much more viable.
Any thoughts about what CCP was thinking regarding those two?
Omber was the best high sec ore until the drone regions flooded the market with heaps of iso. Increasing the iso in omber isn't the solution, decreasing it in drone compounds is. Jaspet has always sucked despite best efforts (originally adding the Zyd etc).
Hemorphite was ok until Nocx tanked, again due to the drone regions. Hopefully the tweaks will make some difference there, but it does look like they've gone with some fairly minor tweaks, to wait and see how they play out. Which would be fine if they were willing to re-tweak more often than every 3 years.
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Twariner Galden
Neues Intergalaktisches Commonwealth Opticon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:45:00 -
[5]
Isn't Dark Ochre missing in your table?
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Seminole Sun
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:14:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Seminole Sun on 27/05/2010 15:17:25
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Omber was the best high sec ore until the drone regions flooded the market with heaps of iso. Increasing the iso in omber isn't the solution, decreasing it in drone compounds is. Jaspet has always sucked despite best efforts (originally adding the Zyd etc).
Hemorphite was ok until Nocx tanked, again due to the drone regions. Hopefully the tweaks will make some difference there, but it does look like they've gone with some fairly minor tweaks, to wait and see how they play out. Which would be fine if they were willing to re-tweak more often than every 3 years.
Omber's not really a high-sec ore but I take your meaning.
My best guess is that the following ratios apply after the changes (the relative dollar isn't important, just the ratio between them)
Tritanium:Pyerite:Mexallon:Isogen:Nocxium:Zydrine:Megacyte:Morphite
1 : 2.75 : 12.5 : 37.5 : 90 : 650 : 1250
That would put Veldspar at the bottom of the heap (where it belongs IMO) but it would make Kernite the holy grail of mining.
And that's the problem with Omber. It would take an complete and utter collapse of Mexallon to ever beat out Kernite.
Jaspet just needs a small tweak to Zydrine (Upping it from 8 -> 40 doesn't seem game breaking to me and it would make a world of difference).
For reference, the game was initially balanced with the ratios of
1: 4: 16: 64: 256: 1024: 4096 as a "standard"
Having said all that, I don't mind the floating market, I just thought the decision to avoid tweaking Omber and tweaking Jaspet by an (essentially) inconsequential amount were odd.
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Scoto Timta
EveMerc's
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Seminole Sun Omber's not really a high-sec ore but I take your meaning.
Actually, it is. Gallente space.
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:27:00 -
[8]
This was in the patch notes and a Dev Blog. Non of the specifics, but it wasn't a secret that this was coming.
From the patch notes:
Quote: Low sec and some null sec asteroids have higher amounts of low end minerals such as Tritanium, Pyerite or Mexallon. For more info, see The Circle of Life dev blog by CCP Chronotis.
From the Dev Blog:
Quote: The initial changes will introduce higher amounts of low end minerals such as tritanium, pyerite or mexallon to low sec or certain null sec ores ensuring you can make it worth the effort to mine these as a viable alternative instead of purely mining the ABC asteroids constantly. Here we are following the same principles of better balancing the supply to the demand rate ratio.
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Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:39:00 -
[9]
When you are calculating the +5% and +10% amounts and end up with .5 of a unit; do you round up or down? (I assume down) |
Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seminole Sun Omber's not really a high-sec ore but I take your meaning.
Also in Minmatar hi-sec space.
Jaspet is still the worst of all ores on an ISK/m3 basis. And Nocx/Zyd is slipping again, which kicks out the value in those lo-sec ores again. Adding 10-15 units per refine batch of Zydrine and another 100 units of Nocx to Jaspet would help, but still wouldn't solve things.
All of the low-sec ores (Hemo, Hedb, Jasp) really need to have their values doubled to even come close to tempting miners into lo-sec. ISK/m3 that is at least 40% higher then the hi-sec ores, minimum.
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies When you are calculating the +5% and +10% amounts and end up with .5 of a unit; do you round up or down? (I assume down)
As far as I know in EVE everything is rounded (in German it means 'kaufmSnnisch runden'), where everything below .5 is rounded down otherwise rounded up.
So the new 5% Spodumain will produce ROUND(3349,5) = 3350 units of Trit.
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Spatiopathe
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:40:00 -
[12]
and if you calculate the new isk/m3 for mining each mineral, you'll see that price doesnt rise of more than 5% for the ore aimed by this patch.
so this only will provide few more low-end mineral to 0.0 miners, And thats really really really far to be enough to motivate miners to mine theses roids. miners think byisk/time or isk/m3.. it's same.. Actually: Mercoxit: 300isk/m3. Arkonor: 300isk/m3 Bistot: 240isk/m3 crokite: 240isk/m3 dark ochre: 130isk/m3 gneiss: 130isk/m3 spodumain: 104isk/m3 instead 102 isk... scordite: 100isk/m3 plagioclase: 97isk/m3 hedbergite: 84isk/m3 instead 82... veldspar: 80isk/m3 hemorphite: 71isk/m3 instead 68 jaspet: 60isk/m3 instead 57..
.wooot woot what a change, the hierarchy doesnt move Mercoxit, ABC rules... Other ore are still a waste of time.
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Jon Rackham
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:20:00 -
[13]
I just spent 20 minutes and 8 million ISK confirming these changes in game, and my graphs look almost exactly the same as they did before. Thank you CCP for wasting everyone's time with this inconsequential change.
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.05.30 22:56:00 -
[14]
Spodumain 3190 410 0 0 0 0 140 0
The 410 in that line should be 140? Or did CCP change that amount too?
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Yu the'Nizer
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Posted - 2010.05.30 23:25:00 -
[15]
For those that have missed it already in this thread or failed economics 101:
Adding more of the middle minerals in a market that is already flooded with them will just drive the prices of those minerals down farther. Since mineral values have fluctuated around the value of a built ship (insurance values) traditionally, CCP needs to increase the number of minerals that there is a shortage of: i.e. the ones that are worth double or triple what 'expected' market values should be (trit and py).
This is going to do three things: lower the value of trit, increase the value of the middle minerals slightly, and lower the value of pure highsec mining (making those afk hulk and bots less valuable). Lowsec mining will still probably totally suck, but those same rocks in a highsec grav site might look a bit nicer. Effectively, I think the value of Hedb, Hem, and Jaspet will increase slightly. (Don't ask for numbers. It's a gut shot guess.) For a lot of w-space mining, Spodumain gets a huge boost in value.
There is a major downside to implementing this at this time, though. With the changes to the insurance and the number of meta 0 drops, the exact changes on the minerals could get a little screwy (and I may be understating it). Then again, the whole thing may well just balance out in the long run. I personally would have rather seen the changes done one at a time and then rebalanced over a 3-6 month period just to make sure it all went smoothly.
Let's all watch it for a month or two (and maybe until the next expansion) and see how it works out instead of crying willy-nilly like the sky is falling.
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.31 00:47:00 -
[16]
OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! j/k Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Jon Rackham
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob
Spodumain 3190 410 0 0 0 0 140 0
The 410 in that line should be 140? Or did CCP change that amount too?
That was changed: Spodumain now provides 410 Pyerite. And, yeah, prices of Pyerite, Isogen, and Mexallon seem to be falling post-patch. Nocxium is up a little. Here's hoping we don't see a complete crash of the mineral market.
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Scrapyard Bob
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:16:00 -
[18]
Thanks. Why CCP couldn't have put in "420" instead of making it look like someone had transposed numbers... (shrugs).
Trit actually seems to be bouncing a bit back from a low of 2.40 or so. There were buy orders in the 2.60-2.75 range over the weekend. But the rest of the low-ends seem to be dropping 5-15%.
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