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Level 4s: Liang's Raven

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Lily'ia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.27 11:42:00 - [1] Hi everyone! So I've just climbed into my first Raven and I'm experimenting with some Level 4s. After trawling through a great many fits I settled on the maximum damage philosophy adopted by Liang Nuren: Quote: [Raven, PvE L4 Liang] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Now I've dropped the Tractor Beam but even then with all Level V skills, the CPU comes up 3% short. Have I got it wrong or will I need some sort of implant to fly her like this? Lily
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.27 11:50:00 - [2] How are your fitting skills? and you have T2 cruise before you got in one? that's dedication ( or you're an old stealth bomber pilot anyway ;) ). Use a faction hardener or two, they're not expensive. Meta4 painter will also save a couple of cpu.
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2010.05.27 11:52:00 - [3] Replace Damage Control II with "Pseudoelectron Containment Field" and your target painter to "Phased Navigation Array Generation Extron" If thats not enough, get a faction hardener, they use less CPU.
Malatha	Posted - 2010.05.27 11:52:00 - [4] The 4th BCU may not be getting you that much more damage. I would consider a PDU instead. I don't have EFT up, but the stacking penalty on that may make the 4th not worth it.
Lily'ia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.27 11:56:00 - [5] Like I said that's with all Level V skills! At the moment I'm flying her with 'Arbalest' launchers while I bring up my missile skills. I'm just wondering if it would be best to aim towards a different setup as this won't even fit with maximum skills? Having said that, I'll look into replacing some of the modules with less intensive faction variants. Thank you! Meanwhile, any other (low skill) Raven suggestions would be much appreciated =) Lily
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.27 12:02:00 - [6] I get the distinct feeling your Raven doesn't have much of a future. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.27 12:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Lily'ia Like I said that's with all Level V skills! At the moment I'm flying her with 'Arbalest' launchers while I bring up my missile skills. I'm just wondering if it would be best to aim towards a different setup as this won't even fit with maximum skills? Having said that, I'll look into replacing some of the modules with less intensive faction variants. Thank you! Meanwhile, any other (low skill) Raven suggestions would be much appreciated =) Lily Start investing in some faction BCUs. Since you'll eventually be using them in your CNR or Golem, you can think of them as an early investment. As Liangs fit has enough tank, the optimal place to spend your ISK is on improving your DPS. DG/CN BCUs only use 24 CPU instead of 40, so the saving is very large.
Lily'ia Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.27 12:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Sader Rykane I get the distinct feeling your Raven doesn't have much of a future. ...and why is that? Because of the fit, because I've been playing for just 2 months or because you're a nasty troll? =) Lily
Backho	Posted - 2010.05.27 12:07:00 - [9] You need 1,500,000 SP to fly this. Also, you need 210m-ish ISK All learning skills to lv 4/3 Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Pseudoelectron Containment Field X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I First you use arbalests , and meta 4 shield booster Then after 2-3 missions, you earn enough to buy a CN XL booster (gives lots of cpu). Then each 2 missions thereafter you can buy a caldari navy missile launcher. and start replacing your arbalests. Im not a fan of siege launcher II Fury missiles do reduced damage to non-battleships. You need to change missiles often. All non fury-missiles do less damage then a Caldari navy launcher. So its your choice. i stick to CN missiles/normal missiles and they are good enough for missions. Use CN missiles to kill all battleships, then on your second reload, load normal missiles. This method is pretty cheap and flexible.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.27 12:08:00 - [10] So you did say. It's early and I haven't had any tea yet. I remember using a t2 booster from the start with mine, iirc I used one ccc rig with the rigors until that alt had cap skills ( and WU ). Didn't really hurt given I'd have had to paint just about everything to get max damage anyway. Other than that there's nothing much else, they're not complicated ships. Start thinking about a gunnery system rather than totally maxing out cruise, unless this is a missioning alt.

Von Kroll Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:14:00 - [11] Best named shield hardeners will get you under the CPU limit and don't cost you too much on the resists, especially since you're active tanking.
Wolfgang Grey	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:22:00 - [12] I tend to drop one of the BCS for a Signal Amplifier, saves you some CPU while letting you use some more of absurd cruise missile range. Plus, the 4th BCS doesn't do all that much with the stacking penalties. Also, likes it has been said, upgrade to faction mods. Their better, they use less fitting. -Grey
Backho	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:59:00 - [13] wrong. The 4th BCU is equivalent to changing three arbalest CN launchers to Caldari navy launchers(130m) three BCU's into CN BCU's (270m) The 4th BCU adds so much dps you cant really do without gimping the value for money of your modules. Idd say if you are really low on CPU, change you damage control II for a Quantum CPU. Swap out your target painter for another hardener so your mid slots is dedicated to tank. Then add tractor or/and salvager or/and drone link. with normal cruise missiles, you will still do full damage to BC and BS. so dont worry much about TP. Drone link on the other hand adds a LOT of utility to your ship.
NoNah	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:29:00 - [14] Keep in mind arbalest launchers are quite a bit worse than t2 ones. Using best named instead of t2(and t2 BCU's instead of faction) means you've lost most of your tank and diminished the usefulness of your TP. I'd consider dropping the target painter for a fourth harderner, and upgrade the BCU's to CN/DG asap. That said, keep in mind the idea of using high damage low tank setups is to actually have high damage. Medium damage low tank generally works bad. All that said, the tank on that raven is pretty much as good as it'll ever get, so doesn't really apply until you start getting some faction love. Oh and of course you shouldn't drop the fourth BCU but I don't have to tell you that. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 476069
Jaxkon Lee	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:38:00 - [15] if you train launcher rigging to 4 and weapons upgrades liangs fit works with no implants liang could you post a good tengu on battleclinic. im using your golem and mike712's tengu now...
Wolfgang Grey	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Backho wrong. The 4th BCU is equivalent to changing three arbalest CN launchers to Caldari navy launchers(130m) three BCU's into CN BCU's (270m) The 4th BCU adds so much dps you cant really do without gimping the value for money of your modules. Idd say if you are really low on CPU, change you damage control II for a Quantum CPU. Swap out your target painter for another hardener so your mid slots is dedicated to tank. Then add tractor or/and salvager or/and drone link. with normal cruise missiles, you will still do full damage to BC and BS. so dont worry much about TP. Drone link on the other hand adds a LOT of utility to your ship. Its a ~20 DPS change with the 4th BCS...I'd rather have the ability to hit out to 120Km with improved lock times, but its a personal choice. I agree that Drone link is very useful, but not at the expense of a TP. It greatly increases the damage you do to those pesky elite cruisers and frigs.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Lily'ia Originally by: Sader Rykane I get the distinct feeling your Raven doesn't have much of a future. ...and why is that? Because of the fit, because I've been playing for just 2 months or because you're a nasty troll? =) Lily 1) You're low SP trying to gank missions (in a raven no less) 2) In my experience the raven is not that great. (Compared to a Abaddon, Domi, Mega, Apoc, Maelstrom..) 3) You're fitting a cap booster. 4) You're 2 months old. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Hyey	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Hyey on 27/05/2010 16:13:42 Edited by: Hyey on 27/05/2010 16:12:01 Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Lily'ia Originally by: Sader Rykane I get the distinct feeling your Raven doesn't have much of a future. ...and why is that? Because of the fit, because I've been playing for just 2 months or because you're a nasty troll? =) Lily 1) You're low SP trying to gank missions (in a raven no less) 2) In my experience the raven is not that great. (Compared to a Abaddon, Domi, Mega, Apoc, Maelstrom..) 3) You're fitting a cap booster. 4) You're 2 months old. Haha did you just attempt to claim that an ABADDON is better than a Raven at mission running? You're a funny man. Low SP characters have to fit a cap booster I've found because they all hang on the need for an XL booster. Once they get better at missions they can drop the XL booster, go to a large, and fit something else in that cap booster. A Raven can run any factions missions and do it quite well...an Abaddon is going to have a little bit of an issue with angels. What I don't agree with for Llangs build is the DC2... I think a DC2 in a mission running boat is absolutely pointless and he's better off putting just about anything else in that slot. Llangs raven is good for a low SP character though...that's the entire point behind it. ~~ Hyey
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Backho You need 1,500,000 SP to fly this. Also, you need 210m-ish ISK All learning skills to lv 4/3 Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Pseudoelectron Containment Field X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Calari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I First you use arbalests , and meta 4 shield booster Then after 2-3 missions, you earn enough to buy a CN XL booster (gives lots of cpu). Then each 2 missions thereafter you can buy a caldari navy missile launcher. and start replacing your arbalests. Im not a fan of siege launcher II Fury missiles do reduced damage to non-battleships. You need to change missiles often. All non fury-missiles do less damage then a Caldari navy launcher. So its your choice. i stick to CN missiles/normal missiles and they are good enough for missions. Use CN missiles to kill all battleships, then on your second reload, load normal missiles. This method is pretty cheap and flexible. Tech2 missile don not fit on faction launchers afaik
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Lily'ia Originally by: Sader Rykane I get the distinct feeling your Raven doesn't have much of a future. ...and why is that? Because of the fit, because I've been playing for just 2 months or because you're a nasty troll? =) Lily 1) You're low SP trying to gank missions (in a raven no less) 2) In my experience the raven is not that great. (Compared to a Abaddon, Domi, Mega, Apoc, Maelstrom..) 3) You're fitting a cap booster. 4) You're 2 months old. 2 months old = roughly 5 million SP. That's PLENTY to fly a mission BS.

el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:22:00 - [21] Edited by: el caido on 27/05/2010 16:22:43 Originally by: Hyey Haha did you just attempt to claim that an ABADDON is better than a Raven at mission running? If he didn't, I will. The Raven is a sh*tpoor mission runner, if we are focusing on blitzing capability (which I assume we are, considering the 4x BCU fit). However, for ease of use and AFK-ability, it is a noob's best friend. For most (not all) missions, I would suggest a baddon over a Raven for a skilled pilot.
Hyey	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:27:00 - [22] Originally by: el caido Edited by: el caido on 27/05/2010 16:22:43 Originally by: Hyey Haha did you just attempt to claim that an ABADDON is better than a Raven at mission running? If he didn't, I will. The Raven is a shtpoor mission runner, if we are focusing on blitzing capability (which I assume we are, considering the 4x BCU fit). However, for ease of use and AFK-ability, it is a noob's best friend. For most (not all) missions, I would suggest a baddon over a Raven for a skilled pilot. He... isn't...skilled. Yes gunnery boats start to outpace a raven with adequate skills but considering tech 2 large guns take about 5x the training as cruise missiles most people just starting are much more likely to have tech 2 cruise missiles... and tech 2 cruise missiles transfer very well to the superior in every way CNR. So let me rephrase. Haha did you just attempt to claim that an ABADDON is better than a raven at mission running for low SP characters? Really though I'd really recommend against a gunboat unless you have considerable skills to back them up. ~~ Hyey*
Veliria	Posted - 2010.05.27 16:55:00 - [23] Raven can choose its damage type and doesn't require the pilot to keep transversal or signature radius in mind. Furthermore, an Abbadon eats huge amounts of cap (especially on a low SP char) and is only effective against Sansha/Blood (which TD) and Drones (which deal Explosive dmg, which is bad on a low SP armor tank). With good/max skills an Abbadon will do Sansha/Blood/Drones missions faster than a Raven, but when it comes to low SP/experience there are few ships that are as forgiving as an XL Raven or a Domi.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.27 17:11:00 - [24] Before I continue to argue. Do we consider me flying an abaddon at 4.5 million SP to be low sp? Although I guess it was more like 3.7 million since I had 4/4 learning (800k sp) Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Greatpatient	Posted - 2010.05.27 17:14:00 - [25] I have not tested rigors with a target painter so i may be wrong, but: from my experience, rigor fit with fury cruise missiles did barely more damage then regular cruise missiles, presumably due to explosion velocity or something of that nature, and having to mess with cap booster charges was a pain. Also if your dps is low, you may have to warp out on some missions to reload or if you screw up, or if any number of things are done incorrectly. Also for cruisers and frigates you'll probably need to switch out ammo. X-Large shield booster also didnt seem necessary for me. That said, this is what i use (swap out em/therm hardeners for other mission specific as needed, same with missiles, also carry percision missiles): [Raven, pve] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.27 17:35:00 - [26] Imagine my surprise to wake up to this. Hmmm.... IMO your options are: - Drop the DC for a Co-Proc - Upgrade the BCU IIs to CN BCUs - Upgrade the hardeners to faction (but not Invulns - those are expensive and you'd be better off with BCUs) - Upgrade to a Domi or CN XL booster. The C5-L feels squishy to me. If you're feeling nervous, you can do all of these and trade the painter for a SBA of some variety - but then you really have to rule out the furies for a while. If you want you can also try upgrading to a Pith C/B Type XL - but the CPU requirements are even higher and will require the faction hardeners + BCU I think. It's worth thinking about CN CML if your cruise spec skill is below 4 or you don't have maxed missile supports (GMP/TNP + good hardwirings) because CN CML + CN missiles will probably win out the damage race. Feel free to evemail me if you have questions - I should be much more responsive to Evemail now that Evegate has gone live. \o/ Also, of course, I peruse the forums occasionally. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.27 17:41:00 - [27] Originally by: el caido Originally by: Hyey Haha did you just attempt to claim that an ABADDON is better than a Raven at mission running? If he didn't, I will. The Raven is a shtpoor mission runner, if we are focusing on blitzing capability (which I assume we are, considering the 4x BCU fit). However, for ease of use and AFK-ability, it is a noob's best friend. For most (not all) missions, I would suggest a baddon over a Raven for a skilled pilot. Hey cool, can you post your Abaddon's mission times for any Guristas/Angel/Serpentis mission for me? Yeah, the Abaddon is awesome in Amarr space (Blood/Sansha/Drones/etc) but saying that it's better than a Raven is pretty ***ing hilarious. And yes, I've missioned with both. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Ace2001 Caldari S E A R	Posted - 2010.05.27 17:58:00 - [28] Edited by: Ace2001 on 27/05/2010 18:00:28 Originally by: Liang Nuren Imagine my surprise to wake up to this. Hmmm.... IMO your options are: - Drop the DC for a Co-Proc - Upgrade the BCU IIs to CN BCUs - Upgrade the hardeners to faction (but not Invulns - those are expensive and you'd be better off with BCUs) - Upgrade to a Domi or CN XL booster. The C5-L feels squishy to me. -Liang The two in bold are what I'm doing/had to do. (Well, the Co-Proc was added in place of the DCU II and then two of the four BCU II's are Caldari navy.) At least until I get my missile launcher rigging to 5 as well as switch the last two BCU II's to CN version, which should then free up enough CPU for me to replace the co-proc with a DCU II. :D Question though to Liang; do you need the target painter if you're not using the T2 ammo? Or can that be switched out for a SBA or something? In a few of the heavier missions I'm finding myself having to warp out because I run out of cap boosters or I'm just taking too much incoming DPS. (I have 5 in the booster and usually carry 10 with me in the cargo, so it doesn't happen too often, but it does happen.) Edit: Spelling.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.05.27 18:06:00 - [29] I had same problem with burning through cap boosters when my dps skills weren't up to scratch. DCII and a fourth hardener instead of the TP will help a lot. Not much point using TP anyway with 3 x rigor and not using fury ammo.
Ace2001 Caldari S E A R	Posted - 2010.05.27 18:20:00 - [30] Edited by: Ace2001 on 27/05/2010 18:21:18 Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat I had same problem with burning through cap boosters when my dps skills weren't up to scratch. DCII and a fourth hardener instead of the TP will help a lot. Not much point using TP anyway with 3 x rigor and not using fury ammo. Yeah I'm still using regular T1 ammo. :/ And I didn't notice much of an increase on damage (even against frigates) save for a few ships here and there where it would do an extra 100~200 more damage or so. So it started to make me wonder if I needed the awesomeness that is the PWNAGE(Seriously, I love that name.) if I was just to stick to T1 ammo and maybe CN ammo. And since nobody replied to my comment in the Tyrannis feedback thread: I made up some fits in-game in the ship fitting screen depending on the damage I'll take, so I can just load that up to switch out my resists. And that worked perfectly before Tyrannis. However, after Tyrannis, when I go to do that it clears off all my equipped items and re-quips them. This makes me have to reload my cap charges (minor annoyance) and re-group my weapons every time I launch. (Bigger annoyance.) Is this happening to anybody else, or just me? D: P.S. sorry for slight thread derailment, but I need to know if it's an issue on my end, or a possible bug/etc.? Edit: Spelling.



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