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Does Eve Support Multi-Threaded Processors or Dual GPUs?

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Sincrho	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:11:00 - [1] Title says it all. I'm in the market for a new system and looking at either an AMD x6 w/ dual 5770s or Intel i7-930 with single 5870. Since this is the only game I play I want fast performance but saving $$$ is nice too. If this is the wrong board, my bad.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:15:00 - [2] No and no. Eve actually runs worse on a sli or crossfire system accourding to the few posts I have seen about it. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
RogueAnt Minmatar Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:17:00 - [3] It runs far worse in crossfire, if you have multiple monitors its best to set a graphics card per monitor for example Client 1 Screen 1 GPU 1 Client 2 Screen 2 GPU 2 :)
Danks Caldari Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:37:00 - [4] Interesting to hear that crossfire actually runs worse, gonna have to research that. I'm running an i7 890 with a single 5870 and it runs 3 clients with full effects without any issues whatsoever.
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:58:00 - [5] For a game like EVE Crossfire/SLI is overkill regardless as whether it works or not. Other games can also have issues with multi-gpu setups like Crysis and older games. Often a single high end graphics card will provide a bigger benefit to multiple lower ones. For multi-threading, the OS will spread some load across multiple cores but EVE rarely uses enough CPU to even have a benefit since it uses CPU to spread it across the cores and if that is mroe than the benefit you have a net loss in performance. But a good CPU will benefit general system use (word processors etc) a lot mroe due to the higher clock and allow you to do video rendering more efficiently. If EVE is your only main game you play a single good GPU and a good CPU will provide more benefit.
Donatella D'Tren Harbingers of Chaos Inc. Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:05:00 - [6] This thread just saved me several thousand $ as I was also looking at buying a new high-end machine only for EVE.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Donatella D'Tren This thread just saved me several thousand $ as I was also looking at buying a new high-end machine only for EVE. Heh, all you need to run eve at max settings at good frame rates in the majority of situations is an an old nvidia 8800 and a decent dual core or really fast single core. Fleet fights will lag a bit graphically but even people with super uber leet systems get the same lag which is why eveyone turns off brackets and all effects. Basically anything modern you buy will run eve flawlessly so go cheap if its for eve only. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
AlleyKat Gallente The Unwanted.	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Sincrho Title says it all. I'm in the market for a new system and looking at either an AMD x6 w/ dual 5770s or Intel i7-930 with single 5870. Since this is the only game I play I want fast performance but saving $$$ is nice too. If this is the wrong board, my bad. Other than this recommendation, EVE will run on a fairly low end system and big bucks are not required. The difference in price/performance kicks in the minute you want to run EVE in 1080P or higher, and start software modding it to run HDR + Bloom, that's when the performance can start to drop off. An entry level/cheapest i3 or x4 with 1 x nVidia 250 or 1 x 5770 should be fine, just get yourself a damn good motherboard, so you can add/change components going forward - and don't skimp on RAM, also get yourself a 64 bit OS, 32 bit is sooo last century. AK EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:34:00 - [9] Originally by: AlleyKat Originally by: Sincrho Title says it all. I'm in the market for a new system and looking at either an AMD x6 w/ dual 5770s or Intel i7-930 with single 5870. Since this is the only game I play I want fast performance but saving $$$ is nice too. If this is the wrong board, my bad. Other than this recommendation, EVE will run on a fairly low end system and big bucks are not required. The difference in price/performance kicks in the minute you want to run EVE in 1080P or higher, and start software modding it to run HDR + Bloom, that's when the performance can start to drop off. An entry level/cheapest i3 or x4 with 1 x nVidia 250 or 1 x 5770 should be fine, just get yourself a damn good motherboard, so you can add/change components going forward - and don't skimp on RAM, also get yourself a 64 bit OS, 32 bit is sooo last century. AK Nividia 250 = Geforce 9800 = Geforce 8800 with a succession of overclocks, btw.
Tavin Aikisen Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:42:00 - [10] Recently downgraded from a GTX 285 SLI setup to a GTX 285 and noticed a performance increase. Not so much a faster minimum/average framerate, just areas where the FPS would not longer suddenly and inexplicably drop. ôRemember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home in peace.ö -Cold Wind
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Mr Kidd Nividia 250 = Geforce 9800 = Geforce 8800 with a succession of overclocks, btw. Close, but they did retool the gpu on the 9800 to a smaller die and added some memory optimizations giving it a rather hefty performance increase. The 250 otoh is simply a rebrand of the 9800 to make it sound like its using the newer gpu tech to prolong sales. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Grez Core Contingency	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:59:00 - [12] WTF is this bollox? EVE runs far better under Crossfire than SLI. Completely the other way around ---
Auto Trader	Posted - 2010.05.30 13:36:00 - [13] Since the last 2 large expansion my Frame rate has droped considerably on max resolution for both monitors , now main monitor running full res the other on med-high res. Iam running 9800 gtx+ on 2 monitors ( 22" +19"), Q9550 , yes is over a yr old but is enough to for the job , as far as fleet battle goes is just mainly lag/ bandwith issue more than anything else , small / medium size fleet on high res seem to be fine on some region.
Sincrho	Posted - 2010.05.30 19:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Lork Niffle For multi-threading, the OS will spread some load across multiple cores but EVE rarely uses enough CPU to even have a benefit since it uses CPU to spread it across the cores and if that is mroe than the benefit you have a net loss in performance. But a good CPU will benefit general system use (word processors etc) a lot mroe due to the higher clock and allow you to do video rendering more efficiently. If EVE is your only main game you play a single good GPU and a good CPU will provide more benefit. Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong.
Qoi New Eden Warriors	Posted - 2010.05.30 19:50:00 - [15] Edited by: Qoi on 30/05/2010 19:51:13 Originally by: Sincrho Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong. There is a reason the eve servers run on dualcores. Better performance per core -> better performance of eve So yes for a small amount of clients (pretty much all eve players) a very performant dualcore would beat a 4-core/6-core processor because of per-core-performance. (Although there are certain techniques to disable cores and power up the others etc..)
Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Sincrho Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong. As long as the individual cores are the same speed you won't notice any difference between a dual, quad, or six core CPU when running a single EVE client. Thing is you can usually buy a dual-core CPU that will overclock to a higher speed than a quad and end up paying less money (at least that was the case when I built my rig, dunno what is available out there for dualies ATM).
Wyn Tao	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:02:00 - [17] Edited by: Wyn Tao on 30/05/2010 20:05:23 Originally by: Qoi Edited by: Qoi on 30/05/2010 19:51:13 Originally by: Sincrho Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong. There is a reason the eve servers run on dualcores. Better performance per core -> better performance of eve So yes for a small amount of clients (pretty much all eve players) a very performant dualcore would beat a 4-core/6-core processor because of per-core-performance. (Although there are certain techniques to disable cores and power up the others etc..) Are you on drugs ? It doesnt matter if a CPU has 2 core or 4 core all the core are the same and peform the same, The only reason eve doesnt use more than 2 core is that the client hasnt been coded to use more than 2. The eve server only runs on duel core wolfdales as CCP hasnt the cash to upgrade to the latest zeon CPU's.
Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Clair Bear on 30/05/2010 20:04:40 Edited by: Clair Bear on 30/05/2010 20:03:21 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Mr Kidd Nividia 250 = Geforce 9800 = Geforce 8800 with a succession of overclocks, btw. Close, but they did retool the gpu on the 9800 to a smaller die and added some memory optimizations giving it a rather hefty performance increase. The 250 otoh is simply a rebrand of the 9800 to make it sound like its using the newer gpu tech to prolong sales. Closer, but not quite. The G92-based 8800GT is hardware and performance identical to the 9800GT. The G92-based 8800GTS became the 9800GTX, which with higher clocks became the 9800GTX+ which got another sticker change became the GTS250. Now, the original G80 8800GTS is a completely different beast and from that stand point you would be right -- the 9800GTX is far superior to the 8800GTS with the 320 bit memory bus. The die shrink from 65nm to 55nm did not change performance at all. In fact, some parts with the same model number came in both 55 and 65nm versions, and the only way to tell which one you had was to pop the heatsink. As far as the OP: I can run as many clients as I feel like on an i7 920 and 8800GT. Eve doesn't demand much computing horsepower at all. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Boogie Bobby	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:43:00 - [19] Arriving in the mail tomorrow is my mostly EVE upgrade PC: Phenom II X2 555 BE Gigabyte 870 mainboard 5770 GPU If you're just into EVE you could easily downgrade to a 5750 which would bring the whole package to around $300 for you Americans. Also switching to a 770 board would save even more if you really just want cheap EVE goodness. The Athlon II X3 440 would also be a fine choice for a processor and is dirt cheap. Is just EVE really your goal though? Do you do anything non gaming related like video editing, ripping movies, video output to a TV etc etc? Then you might want to ramp up the processor a bit. I went cheap on my setup because EVE is my game of choice but it's been so long since I had a decent PC that I can spend some time with Fallout 3, Portal etc and be happy about it. Also I haven't blown all my money and can easily upgrade for Diablo III and SW:TOR.
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Sincrho Originally by: Lork Niffle For multi-threading, the OS will spread some load across multiple cores but EVE rarely uses enough CPU to even have a benefit since it uses CPU to spread it across the cores and if that is mroe than the benefit you have a net loss in performance. But a good CPU will benefit general system use (word processors etc) a lot mroe due to the higher clock and allow you to do video rendering more efficiently. If EVE is your only main game you play a single good GPU and a good CPU will provide more benefit. Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong. if a dual core runs at 3ghz each a quad core will run 4 cores at about 2ghz each. the problem is though the dual core is slower when running all at once, many games will only use 1 core per application. so eve would run faster on the dual core, since it would use a 3ghz core. this is why whe you get a quad core you should get a faster speed OR get a dual core. -------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:09:00 - [21] I am running EvE on an AMD 2 GhZ single core, 1 GB ram, and an old PCIe nVidia. The PC was built in 2006 and not with the newest parts, and the graphics card was upgraded in 2009 with a card that was probably surpassed a year before that. EvE runs fine on it, though large engagements, even medium ones, will lag out a bit, as expected. I do have the graphics turned up as well. My questions for this thread are: 1. Is there a "computer build for EvE"? possibility? I see mentions of "Alienware". Has CCP ever recommended a build for this game? 2. Is there a set of ideal parameters listed anywhere for large fleet engagements for the purpose of reducing client lag? How much lag is the "fault" of the client settings and how much the fault of a node having a cardiac issue? Any help on those questions would be appreciated.
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:13:00 - [22] I think a better question would be: what computers does CCP staff use when playing EVE? _______________________ Quality of life and EVE...
Sincrho	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Harotak Originally by: Sincrho Are you saying that with EVE, a 6 core CPU may have less performance than a 4 core processor? I thought applications only used as many cores as they need to function efficiently. I'm not much of a modern computer wiz so hey, I may be wrong. As long as the individual cores are the same speed you won't notice any difference between a dual, quad, or six core CPU when running a single EVE client. Thing is you can usually buy a dual-core CPU that will overclock to a higher speed than a quad and end up paying less money (at least that was the case when I built my rig, dunno what is available out there for dualies ATM). So using the example of a Phenom II X6 overclocked to 4 GHz, in theory, the PC should be able to handle running multiple clients faster and more efficiently than a dual core CPU, assuming the GPU was powerful enough not to clog up....?
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Atticus Fynch I think a better question would be: what computers does CCP staff use when playing EVE? Nah - I can top that: What systems does CCP use when creating those fight scenes for their trailers.
Capt Fossil Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Atticus Fynch I think a better question would be: what computers does CCP staff use when playing EVE? Not sure but the lead game designers use THIS
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:42:00 - [26] Im sorry they still make single core processors? and if they did you would buy one to play eve? /me returns to the 21st century This is clearly a signature.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:48:00 - [27] Edited by: Ti''anla on 30/05/2010 22:54:15 There was a post, recently - someone suggesting a codebase upgrade - where a developer pointed out that the stackless python at the core of EVE 'spoofs' multi-threading by being able to hurl out individual tasks that different cores will in turn pick up or.. something. Hang on I'll find the thread.. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1083087 Here.. can't find the specific post but, still. Although I guess re-reading it, it had more to do with the servers than the client. Oh well.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:04:00 - [28] Originally by: RogueAnt It runs far worse in crossfire, if you have multiple monitors its best to set a graphics card per monitor for example Client 1 Screen 1 GPU 1 Client 2 Screen 2 GPU 2 :) A while ago I did experiment around with running EVE stretched out on 3 screens that could display 1920x1080 each. Turns out that with my setup I could only use two screens on one graphic card, so I did a little hack To make two graphic cards fit into my machine, therefore allowing a connection of 3 screens (6 theoretically maximum if you count S/Video port). Once I did that I employed a DirectX hack that would to circumvent the limit of the maximum resolution to be limited to one screen. While technically working from a graphical point of view, and also technically running correctly with EVE itself, there have been fatal issues... Since bandwidth on the 2nd graphic card was very limited, the image would update very slowly. Also, the mouse did not work correctly. Read this article I wrote a long while ago if you like. tl;dr All in all I don't recommend running EVE on multiple GPUs/graphic cards. While looking pretty fancy, performance is somewhat... impaired. Apply \| Sigs
Opusmind Stripper Mine Co. Industrial Fleet Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:22:00 - [29] My current setup: CPU: Intel Core i7 920 2.6GHz 8MB S-1366 Motherboard: ASUS P6T SE X-58 S-1366 RAM: 12GB DDR3 1600MHz Kingston HyperX (6x2GB) GFX: 1024MB ASUS GeForce GTX285 DDR3 PCI-E HD: 1TB Seagate 7200rpm 32MB SATA2 Monitor: 22 Samsung 2233RZ 20000:1 TFT (3ms) Extras: Med Tower Case: Antec Two Hundred CPU cooler: 80mm Arctic Cooling AF8025 19dB Cabinet cooler: Arctic Cooling Alpine 11 S-775/1156 PSU: 750W Energon EPS-750 130mm Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit This setup runs 2 x eve clients, on 2 monitors with all details on high, using 20% CPU usage and 12% RAM. A third client doesn't affect it much, and FPS is constantly on 60. ------------- Opusmind www.strippermineco.com
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.05.31 00:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Cipher Jones Im sorry they still make single core processors? and if they did you would buy one to play eve? /me returns to the 21st century Well, my current iPhone uses a single core buts its replacement due in a couple of months will be dual core. Things bigger than a phone, no. From what i read, the people who say one core is as fast as another are only correct for physical cores. A new processor with 6 physical cores has two hyperthreads running on each core so it looks to the software like a 12 core machine. But not all hyperthreads are created equal. Modern software will ensure that preference is given to hyperthreads on separate physical cores. It is faster to run one HT on each of 6 cores versus 2 HT on 3 cores and 3 unused. Regardless of simulated threads, a single thread is using somewhere between on sixth and one twelfth of the computing power. My prediction is the EVE software will be upgraded to support the current CPU paradigm soon(tm).

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