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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.26 20:11:00 -
[91]
Quote: edit: here it is
She threw a spoon to catch someones attention? I am shocked and appaled, this will be dealt with immediatly
If people are going to make topics (in OOPE then) everytime i throw stuff at them to catch their attention it is going to be kinda crowded.
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero No, that's the point. It's an opinion that shows someone simply does not understand the game. The very fact that anybody think that FWers need even more of an incentive is loopy. Literally each and every single other PvPer in all of EVE finds enjoyment in PvPing even without special rewards. But that's not good enough for some folks? Riiiiight.
And not only do FWers not actually need anything special, they already have many bonuses far and away more than what all other PvPers have. To start with, they get eternal, free wardecs. They can go hunting anywhere in New Eden for 100% free. They also can earn LP's redeemable for valuable loot just by running basic missions.
The idea that, on top of that, FWers need to be held by the hand and patted gently on the head by CCP so that they'll PvP is the kind of thinking that shows folks simply don't get PvP.
FW missions have nothing to do with pvp (what ankh wants to change afaik), so i dont see how that is related to anything.
They cant go hunting everywhere 'free', since faction police attacks them (granted filled with bugs) when they enter highsec space of another faction. And that doesnt add more than RvB, so isnt really that much of a bonus.
The reason why i always have not been against special pvp rewards for FW (which granted are tough to balance and i think not that important, more 'help' to get relative even fights would do way more, which would be much harder to make without ruining the open element of eve), is that FW is the only thing where you dont get rewards for pvp besides fun.
High sec wardeccers / pirates get loot from their targets/ransoms. That they blow everything up anyway and dont honor ransoms so no one pays them is their problem. And before you say FW'ers get the same, FW'ers get opponents in low sec who are almost always also pvp fitted. Unlike high sec wardeccers and pirates they get pvp fitted opponents (granted crappy fitted often, but usually not loot to write home about). And unlike high sec wardeccers they dont do it with concord protection if they are in their normal habitat, low sec.
Then the other group pvp'ers are 0.0 people. There we also got the 'pirating' part, killing their anomaly runners, etc, which is same as above (really not that many FW'ers run anomalies in low sec). Besides that we got the sov fighting, where the pvp'ers do get a bonus if they win, sov. Or worse, moon mining which means enormous incomes because they won fights.
TL;DR, I dont think giving isk rewards or similar things for pvp'ing is the way to go, HOWEVER right now they do get much less in return than the 'average' pvp'er.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2010.06.26 20:33:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: edit: here it is
She threw a spoon to catch someones attention? I am shocked and appaled, this will be dealt with immediatly
If people are going to make topics (in OOPE then) everytime i throw stuff at them to catch their attention it is going to be kinda crowded.
I don't know about you, but if I want to grab someone's attention, I say their name, especially in a professional setting (we may be players, but we're dealing with a company). That kind of action is symptomatic and is being used as a "funny/facepalming" anecdote describing the kind of attitude we have to put up with from her part.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.26 20:36:00 -
[93]
Quote: FW missions have nothing to do with pvp
Wrong. They're missions that place people who are wardec'd within the sphere of influence of those who are at war with them.
Quote:
They cant go hunting everywhere 'free'
Wrong again. Highsec, lowsec and nullsec, FW people can go hunting and have many war targets to shoot wherever they wish. And they don't have to pay a single ISK for that.
Quote: FW is the only thing where you dont get rewards for pvp besides fun.
FWers have more encouragement to PvP than anybody else in the entire game. And their rewards are exactly the same. The claim that FW is somehow underprivileged when it comes to PvP rewards makes no sense at all. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.27 08:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero No, that's the point. It's an opinion that shows someone simply does not understand the game. The very fact that anybody think that FWers need even more of an incentive is loopy. Literally each and every single other PvPer in all of EVE finds enjoyment in PvPing even without special rewards. But that's not good enough for some folks? Riiiiight.
And not only do FWers not actually need anything special, they already have many bonuses far and away more than what all other PvPers have. To start with, they get eternal, free wardecs. They can go hunting anywhere in New Eden for 100% free. They also can earn LP's redeemable for valuable loot just by running basic missions.
The idea that, on top of that, FWers need to be held by the hand and patted gently on the head by CCP so that they'll PvP is the kind of thinking that shows folks simply don't get PvP.
Following this logic sovereignty, system upgrades and moon goo should all be removed as they are simply incentives for people to fight in 0.0 an there is not need for them, right, everyone will do PvP the same?
To make it simple: your logic if flawed.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.27 13:42:00 -
[95]
No. This is the same basic problem; obviously people in 0.0 PvP all the time even when high-end moons or turf isn't at stake, and anybody who knows about combat in 0.0 knows this. People don't go on roams in order to find some deathstars to reinforce. More to the point, moons are rewards and points of contention in the player-created nullsec landscape that help differentiate one zone of control from another, and moons happen to be present in lowsec, too.
That there are more things that people can fight over in 0.0 does not mean that the PvPers in 0.0 require those things in order to fight. Nobody, ever, has declared "Let's go on a HAC roam... we might find a conquerable station!" or "Let's go bust up their gatecamp, maybe the last ship that dies will drop a moon."
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.27 14:51:00 -
[96]
This sounds like the kind of discussion that would be better continued in THA.
As for the spoon thing, Jesus it was just a spoon, get over it.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2010.06.27 23:05:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Malcanis As for the spoon thing, Jesus it was just a spoon, get over it.
That is right - kids at pre-school centers around the land are known to throw the spoon at lunchtime when they lose their temper. Sure they get in trouble but it is just childish exuberance.
FEAR THE SPOON!
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Luxury Exports The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2010.06.27 23:25:00 -
[98]
Why are you guys still on about this? You are all giving fuel to candidates to deliver a fire for the players. To everybody who is taking part in this, I would say let it go. Just let it go. Let the CSM do their CSM thing then let's discuss the things related to Eve the CSM is trying to accomplish for us.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.27 23:50:00 -
[99]
Indeed. CCP should get on with the business of introducing T2 Spoon Launchers. |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2010.06.28 00:21:00 -
[100]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Indeed. CCP should get on with the business of introducing T2 Spoon Launchers.
/approve
FEAR THE SPOON!
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.06.28 05:21:00 -
[101]
FinnAgain,
If you are so wise and allknowing, why didn't you try to run for CSM?
Why is it that anyone not agreeing with you get's the name troll? Is that the main responce in your vocabulary?
And looking how the rest of the CSM is more involved in teaming up against one candidate THEY don't agree with instead of doing what they were elected for I seriously doubt this whole CSM delegation is worth the votes they received.
As for the remark from Malkanis that Ankh pulled away votes from other more worthy candidates, please show me which.
Sok is mainly doing his hatething versus Ankh and as such is wasting his seat clearly for personal grudges.
FinnAgain is clearly a loudmouth who has nothing better to do then call other people trolls when they don't agree but when push comes to shove nothing really worthwhile comes from him.
I don't give a rats ass that people don't like eachother in the CSM, they weren't voted in there to like eachother, but to work as a group to help better the game.
Now however it seems more and more it's actually 2 camps who are more busy battling eachother than doing what they were elected for.
I want to congratulate them to bring real politics into EVE and doing actually nothing else then receiving some minor perks without doing anything relevant.
So here Finny, now go on and call me a troll again.
About FW.
My personal idea about FW was always more concentrated about actual PvP over territory to increase the influence of your faction, if you want to run missions you don't need FW. Make FW actually that what players expect from it. One side battling the other side for dominance and make it worthwhile in some way to actually establish dominance, and not by completing some missions or crap cloaky sitting at some spot.
Do something about the UI and also about the various docking ranges at stations. Make docking timers at stations also longer when initiating agression. This mainly to make the undock and docking game less feasable and make docking a real risk if you want to pew someone.
All that kind of crap they should work on, not on stuff like " Whaa, I don't like you so you can't play with me"
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.28 05:29:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Why is it that anyone not agreeing with you get's the name troll?
Because you're lying and that's not true? That was an easy question.
Originally by: Killer Gandry
I am going to troll FinnAgain because even though he's not on the CSM and people troll to support Ank, he notes when other people are trolling but when push comes to shove he's not a valuable CSM delegate even though he's not a CSM delegate at all and non-CSM delegates can't do anything more substantive than post on the forums, and I know this, but I'm just trolling.
I agree, but you need to step up your trolling. P.S. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, maybe stop trolling?
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.06.28 05:42:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Killer Gandry on 28/06/2010 05:43:05
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Why is it that anyone not agreeing with you get's the name troll?
Because you're lying and that's not true? That was an easy question.
Originally by: Killer Gandry
I am going to troll FinnAgain because even though he's not on the CSM and people troll to support Ank, he notes when other people are trolling but when push comes to shove he's not a valuable CSM delegate even though he's not a CSM delegate at all and non-CSM delegates can't do anything more substantive than post on the forums, and I know this, but I'm just trolling.
I agree, but you need to step up your trolling. P.S. If you don't want to be called out for trolling, maybe stop trolling?
A real reply like my 8 year old nephew would do. You sir are certainly a gem in responces for 3rd grade. I salute your extensive ways of looking superior.
And just to be sure you understood what I said.
I was being utterly and completely sarcastic in my first remark.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.28 07:30:00 -
[104]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Killer Gandry Why is it that anyone not agreeing with you get's the name troll?
Because you're lying and that's not true? That was an easy question.
In this thread, you have addressed comments to: Ophelia Ursus, agree Delilah Wild, "bull****", "slander", "trolling", etc. Venkul Mul, "dense" Mynxee, no open difference in opinion Miyamoto Isoruku, agree Killer Gandry, "not even a good troll" Furb Killer, "you're about to cry" Herschel Yamamoto, no open difference in opinion
So of the four people who you've had disagreements with, you've called two trolls, and spent much of your replies to the other two on personal insults. Pardon me if I think that you're stating your point...a touch too emphatically.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.06.28 08:09:00 -
[105]
So the usual 0.0 centric CSM is upset that someone isn't in favour of bumping all 0.0 issues and suppressing all FW issues?
Best CSM member yet!
Sick of CSM being used as a complaints reduction machine while CCP goes off to develop other products.
Light a fire under them!
If the devs think we're all idiots for wanting over-hyped expansions to be finished within 5 years of release then they can live with us not paying their wages anymore.
From the very start it's easier to keep existing customers then to acquire new ones. Keep releasing expansions for the sole purpose of hype and promotion to new customers and you lose.
CCP survive the GFC only to spend all their dev time on risky tangents......... Smart? Good for us the existing paying customers of their existing long-standing subscription service?
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.28 12:20:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So of the four people who you've had disagreements with
You have a very odd way of confirming that the quote shows that Gandry was lying about me in order to troll me (with meta-irony) and that he objected to the fact that his trolling was being pointed out.
And of course, now you've insulted me once and made an entire other post to discuss what you see as flaws in my posting style... namely that you are upset that I've insulted people or criticized their posting styles.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.28 16:07:00 -
[107]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto So of the four people who you've had disagreements with
You have a very odd way of confirming that the quote shows that Gandry was lying about me in order to troll me (with meta-irony) and that he objected to the fact that his trolling was being pointed out.
And of course, now you've insulted me once and made an entire other post to discuss what you see as flaws in my posting style... namely that you are upset that I've insulted people or criticized their posting styles.
Gandry made one statement about you that was intended to be truth(that most of your recent posts are about Ankh), and it's a true statement. So how exactly was he lying about you, or using those lies to troll you?
And the difference is that you just accuse people of things randomly, I actually back my statements up. Also, I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility of a genuine and reasonable disagreement, whereas you're seemingly not. Because seriously, aside from the linguistic errors Gandry made in his first post, what he said was pretty reasonable, and your only response was "You're not even a good troll". That's not debate, that's flinging poop.
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.06.28 18:55:00 -
[108]
Please don't derail from my comments because of not using propper english, for a third language I think I do reasonably well in the english department.
Thing is that FinnAgain has 2 sorts of responses towards people he doesn't agree with.
A: Insult them and call them trolls. B: Copy and paste one small section and take that as a full quote to hammer along.
A real discussion isn't possible with FinnAgain since he hides behind those 2 mechanics.
I will wait a few more years till he's out of the diper phase and try again.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.28 21:12:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Gandry made one statement about you
No, he made several. The one that was just referenced was his lie that I call everybody who disagrees with me a troll. The fact that it wasn't true, he knew it wasn't true (and you just showed again that it isn't true), therefore he was saying something he knew not to be true in order to throw out flamebait.
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Because seriously, aside from the linguistic errors Gandry made in his first post, what he said was pretty reasonable, and your only response was "You're not even a good troll".
Interesting that you've not only somehow managed to miss context and the situation, you've also ignored half of my post that you're talking about. His "substantive response" was in response to a post of mine and rather than responding to a single point that I was making, simply tossed empty insults. What I actually said in addition to the "only" thing of "You're not even a good troll." was "Brilliant factual response", because he wasn't actually responding to anything at all I'd said and was merely trolling me.
So, ya know, I said he was trolling because he was trolling. And you are somehow imagining a "reasonable" anything. He started with [a throwaway insult that I must be bored. Then he decided that I must have a personal grudge against Ank (totally ignoring the substance of everything I've said). Then that her conduct once elected was no concern at all. Then that I was Quixotic. Then another throwaway insult.] And yet while you insult me and talk about the quality of my posting and take me to task for insulting people and commenting about the quality of their posting... now you're supporting a content-free series of personal insults directed at me as very reasonable. Curiouser and curiouser.
I see you are engaging in some good debate, yes?
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Killer Gandry
Caldari TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.06.28 21:39:00 -
[110]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
you've also ignored half of my post that you're talking about.
Isn't that exactly what you are doing since the elections began?
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.29 12:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Let's go bust up their gatecamp, maybe the last ship that dies will drop a moon."
You have to admit that would be pretty awesome, though.
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